Why are these rifles so impossible to get?
- Thread starter g3ninfinite
- Start date
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
Because they aren't out yet. Except in Europe.
Because they aren't out yet. Except in Europe.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
Because HK hates you and we all suck: http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/
Because HK hates you and we all suck: http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBoss0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because they aren't out yet. Except in Europe. </div></div>
416's are out, we have a few.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBoss0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because they aren't out yet. Except in Europe. </div></div>
416's are out, we have a few.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
You are of course correct sir. 416's are available to LEO's, for us civvies, you can buy a 416 upper for a premium price.
You are of course correct sir. 416's are available to LEO's, for us civvies, you can buy a 416 upper for a premium price.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
Well, start looking for the civilian equivalents would be the first thing I would suggest as you won't find HK416 and HK417 rifles for sale stateside.
When they ultimately are released to the US market (you are looking at sometime next year...who knows exactly when...basically when HKUSA gets them imported!), you will be looking for:
1) MR556A1; and
2) MR762A1.
HK USA has repeatedly pushed back the release dates for both of these rifles. They have recently indicated that the MR556A1 would be available 4Q 2010 or 1Q 2011...clearly it ain't gonna make it in 2010 barring a miracle in the next few days, so keep your eyes peeled for sometime the first part of next year. As for the MR762...who the hell knows. They are available in other parts of the world, but yet HK USA says that they are still in development. Again, I would bet that they'll start popping up sometime in the next 6mos or so, but everything with HK USA is an exercise in delays combined with testing of your patience to the extreme.
Personally, if you are looking at either of those rifles as possible candidates for your use, let me recommend against them and in favor of anything from POF, LMT, LWRC, KAC, etc. as an alternative. You'll fare better in terms of accuracy (from reports I have seen thus far from folks who are more in the know than I on the MR556/762 rifles) and you will actually get a rifle from a company that gives 2 sh!ts about its civilian customers/service, that you can readily find aftermarket parts/accessories support for, and just generally an all-around better rifle.
Well, start looking for the civilian equivalents would be the first thing I would suggest as you won't find HK416 and HK417 rifles for sale stateside.
When they ultimately are released to the US market (you are looking at sometime next year...who knows exactly when...basically when HKUSA gets them imported!), you will be looking for:
1) MR556A1; and
2) MR762A1.
HK USA has repeatedly pushed back the release dates for both of these rifles. They have recently indicated that the MR556A1 would be available 4Q 2010 or 1Q 2011...clearly it ain't gonna make it in 2010 barring a miracle in the next few days, so keep your eyes peeled for sometime the first part of next year. As for the MR762...who the hell knows. They are available in other parts of the world, but yet HK USA says that they are still in development. Again, I would bet that they'll start popping up sometime in the next 6mos or so, but everything with HK USA is an exercise in delays combined with testing of your patience to the extreme.
Personally, if you are looking at either of those rifles as possible candidates for your use, let me recommend against them and in favor of anything from POF, LMT, LWRC, KAC, etc. as an alternative. You'll fare better in terms of accuracy (from reports I have seen thus far from folks who are more in the know than I on the MR556/762 rifles) and you will actually get a rifle from a company that gives 2 sh!ts about its civilian customers/service, that you can readily find aftermarket parts/accessories support for, and just generally an all-around better rifle.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
Are they that special, to command the crazy price?
Are they that special, to command the crazy price?
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
They aren't impossible to get for the right price.
At least that's how it was concerning the one in my safe.
They aren't impossible to get for the right price.
At least that's how it was concerning the one in my safe.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
There was 6 H&K MR556A1's listed on gunbroker last week dealer listed them for 2,895.00 .Due to be here by 01/01/2011. Too much for too little of a package!Unless you just have to have one. My money is better on a Scar17H.
There was 6 H&K MR556A1's listed on gunbroker last week dealer listed them for 2,895.00 .Due to be here by 01/01/2011. Too much for too little of a package!Unless you just have to have one. My money is better on a Scar17H.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
There is nothing special about HK except its made by Nazis. The only HK product I will own, is the USP pistol. Preferably at a used price. Everything else is overrated, over priced, and full of unicorn shit. Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less. LMT, LWRC, POF, hell Ruger has one now, its only a matter of time until Armalite and DPMS offers one. Bushmaster has one too I think, and the ACR which is a XM8 that works. CMMG makes a damn good one for the price. CMMG has some of the best machining on the market. And they are dirt cheap. And sell tactical bacon in a can. Cant beat that. Does HK have tactical bacon in a can? No. Enough said.
There is nothing special about HK except its made by Nazis. The only HK product I will own, is the USP pistol. Preferably at a used price. Everything else is overrated, over priced, and full of unicorn shit. Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less. LMT, LWRC, POF, hell Ruger has one now, its only a matter of time until Armalite and DPMS offers one. Bushmaster has one too I think, and the ACR which is a XM8 that works. CMMG makes a damn good one for the price. CMMG has some of the best machining on the market. And they are dirt cheap. And sell tactical bacon in a can. Cant beat that. Does HK have tactical bacon in a can? No. Enough said.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is nothing special about HK except its made by Nazis. The only HK product I will own, is the USP pistol. Preferably at a used price. Everything else is overrated, over priced, and full of unicorn shit. Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less. LMT, LWRC, POF, hell Ruger has one now, its only a matter of time until Armalite and DPMS offers one. Bushmaster has one too I think, and the ACR which is a XM8 that works. CMMG makes a damn good one for the price. CMMG has some of the best machining on the market. And they are dirt cheap. And sell tactical bacon in a can. Cant beat that. Does HK have tactical bacon in a can? No. Enough said. </div></div>
I have handled a lot of M16s and AR15s, and I am the furthest thing from a HK lover. We just got a 416 in the shop the other day and I would have to say that it's the nicest AR type rifle I have ever played with. Fit and finish is second to none.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is nothing special about HK except its made by Nazis. The only HK product I will own, is the USP pistol. Preferably at a used price. Everything else is overrated, over priced, and full of unicorn shit. Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less. LMT, LWRC, POF, hell Ruger has one now, its only a matter of time until Armalite and DPMS offers one. Bushmaster has one too I think, and the ACR which is a XM8 that works. CMMG makes a damn good one for the price. CMMG has some of the best machining on the market. And they are dirt cheap. And sell tactical bacon in a can. Cant beat that. Does HK have tactical bacon in a can? No. Enough said. </div></div>
I have handled a lot of M16s and AR15s, and I am the furthest thing from a HK lover. We just got a 416 in the shop the other day and I would have to say that it's the nicest AR type rifle I have ever played with. Fit and finish is second to none.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Does HK have tactical bacon in a can? No. Enough said. </div></div>
I ate some of that tactical bacon, actually not bad.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Does HK have tactical bacon in a can? No. Enough said. </div></div>
I ate some of that tactical bacon, actually not bad.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is nothing special about HK except its made by Nazis. The only HK product I will own, is the USP pistol. Preferably at a used price. Everything else is overrated, over priced, and full of unicorn shit. Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less. LMT, LWRC, POF, hell Ruger has one now, its only a matter of time until Armalite and DPMS offers one. Bushmaster has one too I think, and the ACR which is a XM8 that works. CMMG makes a damn good one for the price. CMMG has some of the best machining on the market. And they are dirt cheap. And sell tactical bacon in a can. Cant beat that. Does HK have tactical bacon in a can? No. Enough said. </div></div>
Now here's some real ignorant comments by someone that probably has never even handled a 416.
"Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less"
you sir are a tool
As was stated above it has the finest fit and finish of any AR15 I've owned, handled, fired or groped.
So just for shits and giggles here's my list.
1.416
2.Daniel Defense
3.Colt
4.LMT
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is nothing special about HK except its made by Nazis. The only HK product I will own, is the USP pistol. Preferably at a used price. Everything else is overrated, over priced, and full of unicorn shit. Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less. LMT, LWRC, POF, hell Ruger has one now, its only a matter of time until Armalite and DPMS offers one. Bushmaster has one too I think, and the ACR which is a XM8 that works. CMMG makes a damn good one for the price. CMMG has some of the best machining on the market. And they are dirt cheap. And sell tactical bacon in a can. Cant beat that. Does HK have tactical bacon in a can? No. Enough said. </div></div>
Now here's some real ignorant comments by someone that probably has never even handled a 416.
"Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less"
you sir are a tool
As was stated above it has the finest fit and finish of any AR15 I've owned, handled, fired or groped.
So just for shits and giggles here's my list.
1.416
2.Daniel Defense
3.Colt
4.LMT
G
Guest
Guest
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
When looking at the HK's consider that about 75% of the people bashing them have opinions formed only from the internet hand have no actual hands on experience with them. Consider the people that openly admit that they aren't HK lovers, but will give respect to the quality of the 416 or HK product.
That said, the $4k price tag for an upper is absurd, but I would most certainly pay (and I have....4 times) $2k-2.5k for an upper when this is in the realm of a MK12 upper build. They are the finest uppers I have ever seen. If using the same optic, my 14.5" 416 upper will hold the same accuracy as my 18" SPR. I hope for HK's sake that they are checking and double checking that the MR556 is of the same quality and accuracy as the 416 to command the $2.5k-$3k price tag they will command.
I have always considered HK to be #1 in anything 5.56 or less (pistol caliber). The 417 has had its issues. Even the Brits opted for the LMT MWS on the basis that it beat the 417 in both accuracy AND reliability.
When looking at the HK's consider that about 75% of the people bashing them have opinions formed only from the internet hand have no actual hands on experience with them. Consider the people that openly admit that they aren't HK lovers, but will give respect to the quality of the 416 or HK product.
That said, the $4k price tag for an upper is absurd, but I would most certainly pay (and I have....4 times) $2k-2.5k for an upper when this is in the realm of a MK12 upper build. They are the finest uppers I have ever seen. If using the same optic, my 14.5" 416 upper will hold the same accuracy as my 18" SPR. I hope for HK's sake that they are checking and double checking that the MR556 is of the same quality and accuracy as the 416 to command the $2.5k-$3k price tag they will command.
I have always considered HK to be #1 in anything 5.56 or less (pistol caliber). The 417 has had its issues. Even the Brits opted for the LMT MWS on the basis that it beat the 417 in both accuracy AND reliability.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr blasty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because HK hates you and we all suck: http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/ </div></div>
^^^
That is f'kin great stuff right there!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr blasty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because HK hates you and we all suck: http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/ </div></div>
^^^
That is f'kin great stuff right there!!
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
Im just talking smack guys. I know HK does do great work. I have bought 3 new USP pistols. Hated handing that much money over for a Polymer gun, but I wouldnt own any other polymer pistol. Period. I paid 1200$ for a USP Tactical and I know why. This is the most accurate pistol I have ever shot. Screw the Mk23, that thing is just too big. The USP Tactical is almost as reliable, and just as accurate but not as far at the Mk23. I have never fired a 416, just drooled over one at a gun show. Im an HK fanboy, thats why I feel I can talk the shit I do about HK. I hate them, but they make a fantastic weapon. No arguments there, and I will pay for their pistols, but not $4k for an upper alone. I dont care how good it is. The thing I have against the 416 and 417, is they really are nothing special. It just a very well made piston AR15. And very over priced, because HK hates us. And we suck.
About fit and finish, HK's is not much better than LMT LWRC or CMMG. Im not saying that HK is not better, but just not really much to be impressed over.
I want HK to make a 1911. Then I would be impressed.
Im just talking smack guys. I know HK does do great work. I have bought 3 new USP pistols. Hated handing that much money over for a Polymer gun, but I wouldnt own any other polymer pistol. Period. I paid 1200$ for a USP Tactical and I know why. This is the most accurate pistol I have ever shot. Screw the Mk23, that thing is just too big. The USP Tactical is almost as reliable, and just as accurate but not as far at the Mk23. I have never fired a 416, just drooled over one at a gun show. Im an HK fanboy, thats why I feel I can talk the shit I do about HK. I hate them, but they make a fantastic weapon. No arguments there, and I will pay for their pistols, but not $4k for an upper alone. I dont care how good it is. The thing I have against the 416 and 417, is they really are nothing special. It just a very well made piston AR15. And very over priced, because HK hates us. And we suck.
About fit and finish, HK's is not much better than LMT LWRC or CMMG. Im not saying that HK is not better, but just not really much to be impressed over.
I want HK to make a 1911. Then I would be impressed.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
Thanks for the info. I was not considering purchasing one. For me its either LMT or PWS. I was just curious why these are all over the internet but not even available to LE(at least on any large scale).
Thanks for the info. I was not considering purchasing one. For me its either LMT or PWS. I was just curious why these are all over the internet but not even available to LE(at least on any large scale).
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
I don't think the 416s are that expensive. It's the people who get the uppers from their SOTs that jack up the prices that makes it expensive. I think dealer pricing on them is around 2100 bucks or so. That's actually pretty reasonable for a HK. We have a Urbach MP5K PDW in the safe for the bargain price of 21k.
I don't think the 416s are that expensive. It's the people who get the uppers from their SOTs that jack up the prices that makes it expensive. I think dealer pricing on them is around 2100 bucks or so. That's actually pretty reasonable for a HK. We have a Urbach MP5K PDW in the safe for the bargain price of 21k.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
Not to mention the HK weighs in at well over 8 pounds.
Not to mention the HK weighs in at well over 8 pounds.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
I look forward to the day that Hk gets its self together and starts selling us yanks some of there d a m n rifles especially the 417 in 308, but what I don't understand is why Hk is dragging there feet with such a lucrative market as the US gun market. I know that they make most of there money from military and police sales but it seems like at one point some one at Hk would want to get around to selling us some of there goods.
416 or no 416, I don't understand the obsession with AR style rifles. Sure they are light weight, plentiful and have amazing ergonomics and you can mount anything on them, but the SIG 556 is the best buy out there today. Yes, it is more expensive and heavier than an AR but its piston driven, picatiny friendly, uses AR mags, just as accurate and far more reliable and durable and will shoot almost any load with no problems and the ergonomics is the same as an AR and is typically cheaper than an FN 2000 or FN SCAR ( which are probably really cool too).
A friend of mine has/had an 11.5 Hk 416 upper mounted to a Colt AR lower ( I think its a Colt ) and the rig is/ was the coolest thing ever as the quality of the Hk is some of the finest, of course, but at $3k for the upper alone, its a little over board. Apparently Hk 416 pistons don't have the problems that other domestic AR style piston rigs have had but it seems like the best way to avoid all the trouble with that in the first place is to just go for a SIG 556 for half the price but same quality and darn easy to find.
I look forward to the day that Hk gets its self together and starts selling us yanks some of there d a m n rifles especially the 417 in 308, but what I don't understand is why Hk is dragging there feet with such a lucrative market as the US gun market. I know that they make most of there money from military and police sales but it seems like at one point some one at Hk would want to get around to selling us some of there goods.
416 or no 416, I don't understand the obsession with AR style rifles. Sure they are light weight, plentiful and have amazing ergonomics and you can mount anything on them, but the SIG 556 is the best buy out there today. Yes, it is more expensive and heavier than an AR but its piston driven, picatiny friendly, uses AR mags, just as accurate and far more reliable and durable and will shoot almost any load with no problems and the ergonomics is the same as an AR and is typically cheaper than an FN 2000 or FN SCAR ( which are probably really cool too).
A friend of mine has/had an 11.5 Hk 416 upper mounted to a Colt AR lower ( I think its a Colt ) and the rig is/ was the coolest thing ever as the quality of the Hk is some of the finest, of course, but at $3k for the upper alone, its a little over board. Apparently Hk 416 pistons don't have the problems that other domestic AR style piston rigs have had but it seems like the best way to avoid all the trouble with that in the first place is to just go for a SIG 556 for half the price but same quality and darn easy to find.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: carryhold</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I look forward to the day that Hk gets its self together and starts selling us yanks some of there d a m n rifles especially the 417 in 308, but what I don't understand is why Hk is dragging there feet with such a lucrative market as the US gun market. I know that they make most of there money from military and police sales but it seems like at one point some one at Hk would want to get around to selling us some of there goods.
416 or no 416, I don't understand the obsession with AR style rifles. Sure they are light weight, plentiful and have amazing ergonomics and you can mount anything on them, but the SIG 556 is the best buy out there today. Yes, it is more expensive and heavier than an AR but its piston driven, picatiny friendly, uses AR mags, just as accurate and far more reliable and durable and will shoot almost any load with no problems and the ergonomics is the same as an AR and is typically cheaper than an FN 2000 or FN SCAR ( which are probably really cool too).
A friend of mine has/had an 11.5 Hk 416 upper mounted to a Colt AR lower ( I think its a Colt ) and the rig is/ was the coolest thing ever as the quality of the Hk is some of the finest, of course, but at $3k for the upper alone, its a little over board. Apparently Hk 416 pistons don't have the problems that other domestic AR style piston rigs have had but it seems like the best way to avoid all the trouble with that in the first place is to just go for a SIG 556 for half the price but same quality and darn easy to find.
</div></div>
I thought HK416 uppers and lowers were proprietary shapes and couldn't be affixed to other brands of lowers/uppers? Did that change or did I just hear wrong?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: carryhold</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I look forward to the day that Hk gets its self together and starts selling us yanks some of there d a m n rifles especially the 417 in 308, but what I don't understand is why Hk is dragging there feet with such a lucrative market as the US gun market. I know that they make most of there money from military and police sales but it seems like at one point some one at Hk would want to get around to selling us some of there goods.
416 or no 416, I don't understand the obsession with AR style rifles. Sure they are light weight, plentiful and have amazing ergonomics and you can mount anything on them, but the SIG 556 is the best buy out there today. Yes, it is more expensive and heavier than an AR but its piston driven, picatiny friendly, uses AR mags, just as accurate and far more reliable and durable and will shoot almost any load with no problems and the ergonomics is the same as an AR and is typically cheaper than an FN 2000 or FN SCAR ( which are probably really cool too).
A friend of mine has/had an 11.5 Hk 416 upper mounted to a Colt AR lower ( I think its a Colt ) and the rig is/ was the coolest thing ever as the quality of the Hk is some of the finest, of course, but at $3k for the upper alone, its a little over board. Apparently Hk 416 pistons don't have the problems that other domestic AR style piston rigs have had but it seems like the best way to avoid all the trouble with that in the first place is to just go for a SIG 556 for half the price but same quality and darn easy to find.
</div></div>
I thought HK416 uppers and lowers were proprietary shapes and couldn't be affixed to other brands of lowers/uppers? Did that change or did I just hear wrong?
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
Here is a link for the Hk 416 uppers, of course they are out of stock.
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-416-10-4-Upper-14p962.htm
Here is a link for the Hk 416 uppers, of course they are out of stock.
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-416-10-4-Upper-14p962.htm
G
Guest
Guest
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I thought HK416 uppers and lowers were proprietary shapes and couldn't be affixed to other brands of lowers/uppers? Did that change or did I just hear wrong? </div></div>
The MR223 (not to be confused with the impending US's MR556) which is sold to the internationally (except US) to civilians and has a proprietary upper/lower that will not allow use on mil spec lowers.
The MR556 was originally rumored to be the same as the MR223, but HK decided to make it compatible with spec AR lowers.
The 416 is compatible with mil-spc AR lowers. In fact, this was the fall-back plan for HK in having the US purchase new uppers and use them with Colt M4 lowers. Where you may be confused is the need for for an auto or "tall hammer" for use with upper to defeat the firing pin safety. If used with a standard semi auto hammer with the notch, it will not fire. I currently run a 416 on a Colt 6920 lower and have had zero issues.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I thought HK416 uppers and lowers were proprietary shapes and couldn't be affixed to other brands of lowers/uppers? Did that change or did I just hear wrong? </div></div>
The MR223 (not to be confused with the impending US's MR556) which is sold to the internationally (except US) to civilians and has a proprietary upper/lower that will not allow use on mil spec lowers.
The MR556 was originally rumored to be the same as the MR223, but HK decided to make it compatible with spec AR lowers.
The 416 is compatible with mil-spc AR lowers. In fact, this was the fall-back plan for HK in having the US purchase new uppers and use them with Colt M4 lowers. Where you may be confused is the need for for an auto or "tall hammer" for use with upper to defeat the firing pin safety. If used with a standard semi auto hammer with the notch, it will not fire. I currently run a 416 on a Colt 6920 lower and have had zero issues.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
How does it make you feel that you can't get something made in another country imported into the US?
Probably the same it makes us Aussies feel when US suppliers refuse to send stuff to us. For example, I can't even buy a Larue mount. Not because US laws prohibit export, but because Mr Larue doesn't believe in free trade with a country that has backed you up in every major conflict since ww2
How does it make you feel that you can't get something made in another country imported into the US?
Probably the same it makes us Aussies feel when US suppliers refuse to send stuff to us. For example, I can't even buy a Larue mount. Not because US laws prohibit export, but because Mr Larue doesn't believe in free trade with a country that has backed you up in every major conflict since ww2
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
Don't feel bad camp carnage, Mr. Larue won't sell some stuff to us here in California.
Don't feel bad camp carnage, Mr. Larue won't sell some stuff to us here in California.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
"Not because US laws prohibit export"
Actually they do under ITAR for individual sales. It has nothing to do with LaRue.
http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar_official.html
"Not because US laws prohibit export"
Actually they do under ITAR for individual sales. It has nothing to do with LaRue.
http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar_official.html
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I thought HK416 uppers and lowers were proprietary shapes and couldn't be affixed to other brands of lowers/uppers? Did that change or did I just hear wrong? </div></div>
The MR223 (not to be confused with the impending US's MR556) which is sold to the internationally (except US) to civilians and has a proprietary upper/lower that will not allow use on mil spec lowers.
The MR556 was originally rumored to be the same as the MR223, but HK decided to make it compatible with spec AR lowers.
The 416 is compatible with mil-spc AR lowers. In fact, this was the fall-back plan for HK in having the US purchase new uppers and use them with Colt M4 lowers. Where you may be confused is the need for for an auto or "tall hammer" for use with upper to defeat the firing pin safety. If used with a standard semi auto hammer with the notch, it will not fire. I currently run a 416 on a Colt 6920 lower and have had zero issues. </div></div>
Ah thanks!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I thought HK416 uppers and lowers were proprietary shapes and couldn't be affixed to other brands of lowers/uppers? Did that change or did I just hear wrong? </div></div>
The MR223 (not to be confused with the impending US's MR556) which is sold to the internationally (except US) to civilians and has a proprietary upper/lower that will not allow use on mil spec lowers.
The MR556 was originally rumored to be the same as the MR223, but HK decided to make it compatible with spec AR lowers.
The 416 is compatible with mil-spc AR lowers. In fact, this was the fall-back plan for HK in having the US purchase new uppers and use them with Colt M4 lowers. Where you may be confused is the need for for an auto or "tall hammer" for use with upper to defeat the firing pin safety. If used with a standard semi auto hammer with the notch, it will not fire. I currently run a 416 on a Colt 6920 lower and have had zero issues. </div></div>
Ah thanks!
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
H&K Rifles and uppers are available but restricted to people who are willing to spend too much money to get them. I have used them both in this country and overseas and they are great weapons. Much better than what the US government issues to the troops due to the political garbage involved in the contracting.
H&K Rifles and uppers are available but restricted to people who are willing to spend too much money to get them. I have used them both in this country and overseas and they are great weapons. Much better than what the US government issues to the troops due to the political garbage involved in the contracting.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
Here is a 416 we got in the other day with a PWS Diablo upper.
Here is a 416 we got in the other day with a PWS Diablo upper.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is nothing special about HK except its made by Nazis. The only HK product I will own, is the USP pistol. Preferably at a used price. Everything else is overrated, over priced, and full of unicorn shit. Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less. LMT, LWRC, POF, hell Ruger has one now, its only a matter of time until Armalite and DPMS offers one. Bushmaster has one too I think, and the ACR which is a XM8 that works. CMMG makes a damn good one for the price. CMMG has some of the best machining on the market. And they are dirt cheap. And sell tactical bacon in a can. Cant beat that. Does HK have tactical bacon in a can? No. Enough said. </div></div>
Now here's some real ignorant comments by someone that probably has never even handled a 416.
"Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less"
you sir are a tool
As was stated above it has the finest fit and finish of any AR15 I've owned, handled, fired or groped.
So just for shits and giggles here's my list.
1.416
2.Daniel Defense
3.Colt
4.LMT </div></div>
Tactful, as always. HK doesn't give a crap about the American Civilian market, and their firearms are overpriced by hype and ignorance. That doesn't mean they aren't decent machines, it just means that I'm not gonna spend money on 'em. LWRCI, Glock 34, and Remington 870 are sufficient for my needs. It's kinda like Harley's. I worked for my Dad and saved up to buy my first Sportster when I was 15 (yeah, had to stick to the backroads briefly until I got my DL
) and moved through several Superglides, a Fat Boy, and a Road King. Finally sold out and bought a Suzuki DL1000 because I got tired of seeing all the accountants and bankers putting on their bandanas and sleeveless shirts on the weekend and shape-shifting into "bikers" on their Harleys! I like the machine, but the image and hype and associated cost are irritating. After having a Suzuki "adventure bike" for a few years it's obvious to me that it's a better bang for my buck than Harley was. Kinda like Glock, LWRCI, and Remington 870 are when compared to HK and Benelli!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is nothing special about HK except its made by Nazis. The only HK product I will own, is the USP pistol. Preferably at a used price. Everything else is overrated, over priced, and full of unicorn shit. Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less. LMT, LWRC, POF, hell Ruger has one now, its only a matter of time until Armalite and DPMS offers one. Bushmaster has one too I think, and the ACR which is a XM8 that works. CMMG makes a damn good one for the price. CMMG has some of the best machining on the market. And they are dirt cheap. And sell tactical bacon in a can. Cant beat that. Does HK have tactical bacon in a can? No. Enough said. </div></div>
Now here's some real ignorant comments by someone that probably has never even handled a 416.
"Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less"
you sir are a tool
As was stated above it has the finest fit and finish of any AR15 I've owned, handled, fired or groped.
So just for shits and giggles here's my list.
1.416
2.Daniel Defense
3.Colt
4.LMT </div></div>
Tactful, as always. HK doesn't give a crap about the American Civilian market, and their firearms are overpriced by hype and ignorance. That doesn't mean they aren't decent machines, it just means that I'm not gonna spend money on 'em. LWRCI, Glock 34, and Remington 870 are sufficient for my needs. It's kinda like Harley's. I worked for my Dad and saved up to buy my first Sportster when I was 15 (yeah, had to stick to the backroads briefly until I got my DL
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
I was fortunate enough to fire and fondle a HK 5.56 select fire SBR and it was an extremely well finished AR. I'm not an HK fan. My first HK was a compact pistol I got in Germany. It was one frame and several barrels, magazines and slides. I believe it was called a P4 and was 22LR, 32 acp, 25 acp and .380. Second was a P9s in 45 acp. Pistols were traded off and I have a HK91 in my safe that has not been shot in years. But I may be tempted by this new offering.
I was fortunate enough to fire and fondle a HK 5.56 select fire SBR and it was an extremely well finished AR. I'm not an HK fan. My first HK was a compact pistol I got in Germany. It was one frame and several barrels, magazines and slides. I believe it was called a P4 and was 22LR, 32 acp, 25 acp and .380. Second was a P9s in 45 acp. Pistols were traded off and I have a HK91 in my safe that has not been shot in years. But I may be tempted by this new offering.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chainring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is nothing special about HK except its made by Nazis. The only HK product I will own, is the USP pistol. Preferably at a used price. Everything else is overrated, over priced, and full of unicorn shit. Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less. LMT, LWRC, POF, hell Ruger has one now, its only a matter of time until Armalite and DPMS offers one. Bushmaster has one too I think, and the ACR which is a XM8 that works. CMMG makes a damn good one for the price. CMMG has some of the best machining on the market. And they are dirt cheap. And sell tactical bacon in a can. Cant beat that. Does HK have tactical bacon in a can? No. Enough said. </div></div>
Now here's some real ignorant comments by someone that probably has never even handled a 416.
"Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less"
you sir are a tool
As was stated above it has the finest fit and finish of any AR15 I've owned, handled, fired or groped.
So just for shits and giggles here's my list.
1.416
2.Daniel Defense
3.Colt
4.LMT </div></div>
Tactful, as always. HK doesn't give a crap about the American Civilian market, and their firearms are overpriced by hype and ignorance. That doesn't mean they aren't decent machines, it just means that I'm not gonna spend money on 'em. LWRCI, Glock 34, and Remington 870 are sufficient for my needs. It's kinda like Harley's. I worked for my Dad and saved up to buy my first Sportster when I was 15 (yeah, had to stick to the backroads briefly until I got my DL ) and moved through several Superglides, a Fat Boy, and a Road King. Finally sold out and bought a Suzuki DL1000 because I got tired of seeing all the accountants and bankers putting on their bandanas and sleeveless shirts on the weekend and shape-shifting into "bikers" on their Harleys! I like the machine, but the image and hype and associated cost are irritating. After having a Suzuki "adventure bike" for a few years it's obvious to me that it's a better bang for my buck than Harley was. Kinda like Glock, LWRCI, and Remington 870 are when compared to HK and Benelli! </div></div>
It's all Kool-Aid; baby, You just chose another flavor.
I fail to see where you are going with your "biker" analogy. Other than "we all could get by with less" idea, it is not a parallel.
We all don't need Schmidt & Bender optics, but i'll be damned if i'm going to give them up for a Super Sniper just cause it's the best "bang for my buck".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chainring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ram4X4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is nothing special about HK except its made by Nazis. The only HK product I will own, is the USP pistol. Preferably at a used price. Everything else is overrated, over priced, and full of unicorn shit. Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less. LMT, LWRC, POF, hell Ruger has one now, its only a matter of time until Armalite and DPMS offers one. Bushmaster has one too I think, and the ACR which is a XM8 that works. CMMG makes a damn good one for the price. CMMG has some of the best machining on the market. And they are dirt cheap. And sell tactical bacon in a can. Cant beat that. Does HK have tactical bacon in a can? No. Enough said. </div></div>
Now here's some real ignorant comments by someone that probably has never even handled a 416.
"Plenty of American piston ARs work just as good or better than HK and cost less"
you sir are a tool
As was stated above it has the finest fit and finish of any AR15 I've owned, handled, fired or groped.
So just for shits and giggles here's my list.
1.416
2.Daniel Defense
3.Colt
4.LMT </div></div>
Tactful, as always. HK doesn't give a crap about the American Civilian market, and their firearms are overpriced by hype and ignorance. That doesn't mean they aren't decent machines, it just means that I'm not gonna spend money on 'em. LWRCI, Glock 34, and Remington 870 are sufficient for my needs. It's kinda like Harley's. I worked for my Dad and saved up to buy my first Sportster when I was 15 (yeah, had to stick to the backroads briefly until I got my DL
It's all Kool-Aid; baby, You just chose another flavor.
I fail to see where you are going with your "biker" analogy. Other than "we all could get by with less" idea, it is not a parallel.
We all don't need Schmidt & Bender optics, but i'll be damned if i'm going to give them up for a Super Sniper just cause it's the best "bang for my buck".
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
Moderators I am not sure if this is permitted so please excuse me if it is not.
For those that may be interested in the MR556 here is a link to a pre-order on HKpro for $2450.00 plus $25.00 shipping to your local FFL. The MSRP on these is $2995.00. This is not my pre-order and I do not know the seller.
HK MR556 Group Buy Preorder
I am very new to the AR world but I believe there are several ARs in this price range. I know I bought a new 18" barrel POF 415 for $2000.00
Moderators I am not sure if this is permitted so please excuse me if it is not.
For those that may be interested in the MR556 here is a link to a pre-order on HKpro for $2450.00 plus $25.00 shipping to your local FFL. The MSRP on these is $2995.00. This is not my pre-order and I do not know the seller.
HK MR556 Group Buy Preorder
I am very new to the AR world but I believe there are several ARs in this price range. I know I bought a new 18" barrel POF 415 for $2000.00
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here is a 416 we got in the other day with a PWS Diablo upper. </div></div>
ummm that's a picture of an H&K lower and some crap upper, not a 416.
Come on now, if you want to call it a 416 at least have the important part........the upper.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here is a 416 we got in the other day with a PWS Diablo upper. </div></div>
ummm that's a picture of an H&K lower and some crap upper, not a 416.
Come on now, if you want to call it a 416 at least have the important part........the upper.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think the 416s are that expensive. It's the people who get the uppers from their SOTs that jack up the prices that makes it expensive. I think dealer pricing on them is around 2100 bucks or so. That's actually pretty reasonable for a HK. We have a Urbach MP5K PDW in the safe for the bargain price of 21k. </div></div>
You are comparing peas and carrots.
Class 3 machinguns are high priced for a reason (limited supply).
And your a bit over market value on that urbach mp5k by the way.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think the 416s are that expensive. It's the people who get the uppers from their SOTs that jack up the prices that makes it expensive. I think dealer pricing on them is around 2100 bucks or so. That's actually pretty reasonable for a HK. We have a Urbach MP5K PDW in the safe for the bargain price of 21k. </div></div>
You are comparing peas and carrots.
Class 3 machinguns are high priced for a reason (limited supply).
And your a bit over market value on that urbach mp5k by the way.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
HK sure missed the boat with these rifles. It wasn't too long ago that they were HIGHLY sought after by the general shooting public with pretty much zero competition (at least perceptionally). Now the market it saturated and competition will kill them if they introduce now, IMHO.
HK sure missed the boat with these rifles. It wasn't too long ago that they were HIGHLY sought after by the general shooting public with pretty much zero competition (at least perceptionally). Now the market it saturated and competition will kill them if they introduce now, IMHO.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here is a 416 we got in the other day with a PWS Diablo upper. </div></div>
ummm that's a picture of an H&K lower and some crap upper, not a 416.
Come on now, if you want to call it a 416 at least have the important part........the upper. </div></div>
I am sure you can't just buy the lower. And as for the upper, the owner has it, he just wanted a shorter more compact gun. While I am not that big of a fan of the piston systems, the PWS system seems to be the best one out of the bunch IMO.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here is a 416 we got in the other day with a PWS Diablo upper. </div></div>
ummm that's a picture of an H&K lower and some crap upper, not a 416.
Come on now, if you want to call it a 416 at least have the important part........the upper. </div></div>
I am sure you can't just buy the lower. And as for the upper, the owner has it, he just wanted a shorter more compact gun. While I am not that big of a fan of the piston systems, the PWS system seems to be the best one out of the bunch IMO.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think the 416s are that expensive. It's the people who get the uppers from their SOTs that jack up the prices that makes it expensive. I think dealer pricing on them is around 2100 bucks or so. That's actually pretty reasonable for a HK. We have a Urbach MP5K PDW in the safe for the bargain price of 21k. </div></div>
You are comparing peas and carrots.
Class 3 machinguns are high priced for a reason (limited supply).
And your a bit over market value on that urbach mp5k by the way. </div></div>
If you would read into it some more. I was just commenting on how some people think HKs are overpriced, to a point I think they are right. I am somewhat familiar with them. I have seen enough come through the shop that I have always questioned their asking price. I would have to say, all the Urbach guns that I have had in the shop have been flawless, in markings, finish and they just flat out run. Do I think the K gun is overpriced? Yeah I do, now way I would even pay that kind of money for a 9mm. I have way more fun shooting the G18. But good luck getting another Urbach gun. He was shut down by the ATF.
Me personally, I would be happy with a M16. It's a way more versatile system and I don't need a gunsmith to work on/build them. Can't say the same for HKs.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think the 416s are that expensive. It's the people who get the uppers from their SOTs that jack up the prices that makes it expensive. I think dealer pricing on them is around 2100 bucks or so. That's actually pretty reasonable for a HK. We have a Urbach MP5K PDW in the safe for the bargain price of 21k. </div></div>
You are comparing peas and carrots.
Class 3 machinguns are high priced for a reason (limited supply).
And your a bit over market value on that urbach mp5k by the way. </div></div>
If you would read into it some more. I was just commenting on how some people think HKs are overpriced, to a point I think they are right. I am somewhat familiar with them. I have seen enough come through the shop that I have always questioned their asking price. I would have to say, all the Urbach guns that I have had in the shop have been flawless, in markings, finish and they just flat out run. Do I think the K gun is overpriced? Yeah I do, now way I would even pay that kind of money for a 9mm. I have way more fun shooting the G18. But good luck getting another Urbach gun. He was shut down by the ATF.
Me personally, I would be happy with a M16. It's a way more versatile system and I don't need a gunsmith to work on/build them. Can't say the same for HKs.
Re: HK 416/17 and MR556A1
If I'm going to drop $2k+, I'm going to buy a POF-USA. They care about their customers, make excellent products that are proving to be very reliable, and they don't have undeserved hype like HK.
Frankly, why patronize a company like HK that has continually thumbed its nose at the open market? Even as a cop, I can't get proper service from them. That's beyond wrong.
If I'm going to drop $2k+, I'm going to buy a POF-USA. They care about their customers, make excellent products that are proving to be very reliable, and they don't have undeserved hype like HK.
Frankly, why patronize a company like HK that has continually thumbed its nose at the open market? Even as a cop, I can't get proper service from them. That's beyond wrong.
