I would like a no BS assesment on Holding. I have ranged accurately Leica geovid and missed. Inaccurate ballistics and jerking the trigger lousy follow through you name it. I have used mostly Leupold custom turrets. Not 1/4 MOA but close enough for a moose. I am about to step up to the plate I want an accurate assesment on Horus Vision. I love the sightron clicks they seem to be accurate, but they are mil/moa. I have no feelings and am willing to sell my children to get the proper combo to make continuous hits using proper shooting etiquette. An assessment that hurts my feelings is fine. I just think that dialing is for genius's and holding is for shooters let me know what you think I will be waiting with baited breath!
Rifle Scopes HOLDING vs DIALING
- Thread starter DWanfalt
- Start date
Re: HOLDING vs DIALING
Ideal is to have your turrets match the reticle. There are a few good options out there with this setup depending on how much you're willing to spend. I never owned a scope with a Horus reticle, but have used them. Too much shit to look at for my liking. Others love them. It's a preference thing I guess. All my scopes have mil reticles with MOA turets. Not preferred, just what it is for now. I dial elevation and hold wind. Then hold corrections for follow-up shots, if needed. I guess I'm a genius and a shooter
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Ideal is to have your turrets match the reticle. There are a few good options out there with this setup depending on how much you're willing to spend. I never owned a scope with a Horus reticle, but have used them. Too much shit to look at for my liking. Others love them. It's a preference thing I guess. All my scopes have mil reticles with MOA turets. Not preferred, just what it is for now. I dial elevation and hold wind. Then hold corrections for follow-up shots, if needed. I guess I'm a genius and a shooter
Re: HOLDING vs DIALING
Welcome to the Hide!
Online Training from RiflesOnly(Jacob) and Lowlight(Frank) will help with almost all the bad things you listed.
I have never used or looked thru a Horus scope, but like Craig said, the turrets need to match the reticle, makes life alot easier, I just made the change to all Mils from a Nightforce MOA scope, Mils MOA and IPHYs are all measurements of a angle, most of us are going to dial elevation and hold for windage, the reason being is the conditions can and do change faster than you can dial, and once you learn your reticle, your rifle and its ballistics you can hold for elevation in a pinch.
Welcome to the Hide!
Online Training from RiflesOnly(Jacob) and Lowlight(Frank) will help with almost all the bad things you listed.
I have never used or looked thru a Horus scope, but like Craig said, the turrets need to match the reticle, makes life alot easier, I just made the change to all Mils from a Nightforce MOA scope, Mils MOA and IPHYs are all measurements of a angle, most of us are going to dial elevation and hold for windage, the reason being is the conditions can and do change faster than you can dial, and once you learn your reticle, your rifle and its ballistics you can hold for elevation in a pinch.
Re: HOLDING vs DIALING
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dan W.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like a no BS assesment on Holding. I have ranged accurately Leica geovid and missed.... </div></div>
Understanding why you missed might be the best place to start. "Inaccurate ballistics" sounds like a cop out for not field verifying your dial points, IMO, and "jerking the trigger" sound like a guy that bought some equipment but did not prepare himself (practice) to use it well. Seen this many times in the field when I guided and with all different kinds of equipment.
Skill cannot be bought, it comes with good instruction, practice and perseverance so not sure selling your kids will help much either. But they may not mind.
I dial for distance (and am not a genius) and hold for corrections like Craig said and I use Leupolds with M1 turrets. I have used and really do not care for the likes of Horus vision. With practice and good light, I've seen guys do very well with them but just to easy to screw up in poor light or dark backgrounds for me.
If you really want to be a better shot, a little humility and a lot listening, reading and hard work would be a good place to start. The online training is good on the fundamentals.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dan W.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like a no BS assesment on Holding. I have ranged accurately Leica geovid and missed.... </div></div>
Understanding why you missed might be the best place to start. "Inaccurate ballistics" sounds like a cop out for not field verifying your dial points, IMO, and "jerking the trigger" sound like a guy that bought some equipment but did not prepare himself (practice) to use it well. Seen this many times in the field when I guided and with all different kinds of equipment.
Skill cannot be bought, it comes with good instruction, practice and perseverance so not sure selling your kids will help much either. But they may not mind.
I dial for distance (and am not a genius) and hold for corrections like Craig said and I use Leupolds with M1 turrets. I have used and really do not care for the likes of Horus vision. With practice and good light, I've seen guys do very well with them but just to easy to screw up in poor light or dark backgrounds for me.
If you really want to be a better shot, a little humility and a lot listening, reading and hard work would be a good place to start. The online training is good on the fundamentals.
Re: HOLDING vs DIALING
In all reality there should be no difference between holding and dialing, however the perceptions is certainly different.
a reticle, regardless of the type should be every bit as accurate as the turrets and in some cases more so as manufacturers generally allow for about 5% error in their turrets. Reticles however tend to be a bit more to spec and aren't subjected to the same mechanical errors.
The issue is, practice, one much practice to properly hold and subtend a reticle correctly on the target. There is nothing a Horus can't do that you shouldn't be able to with a standard mil dot reticle. Granted without dialing assistance the Horus will reach 1000 yards simply by holding, however that distance should give the shooter time and opportunity to dial. Inside 600, the potential danger space for a shooter, the 5 Mils in a mil dot reticle will get you there with a 100 yard zero.
So, any good shooter should be versed in both and understand how the relationship between the turrets and reticle works, at least down to 1 MOA.
In all reality there should be no difference between holding and dialing, however the perceptions is certainly different.
a reticle, regardless of the type should be every bit as accurate as the turrets and in some cases more so as manufacturers generally allow for about 5% error in their turrets. Reticles however tend to be a bit more to spec and aren't subjected to the same mechanical errors.
The issue is, practice, one much practice to properly hold and subtend a reticle correctly on the target. There is nothing a Horus can't do that you shouldn't be able to with a standard mil dot reticle. Granted without dialing assistance the Horus will reach 1000 yards simply by holding, however that distance should give the shooter time and opportunity to dial. Inside 600, the potential danger space for a shooter, the 5 Mils in a mil dot reticle will get you there with a 100 yard zero.
So, any good shooter should be versed in both and understand how the relationship between the turrets and reticle works, at least down to 1 MOA.
Re: HOLDING vs DIALING
I always hold wind, everytime I dial, I end up *farking* up when I have to re-adjust for wind changes... Just easier for me.
I always hold wind, everytime I dial, I end up *farking* up when I have to re-adjust for wind changes... Just easier for me.
Re: HOLDING vs DIALING
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> When I'm not dialing in the wrong direction, I'm forgetting to remove it. </div></div>
LOL.... EXACTLY.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rijndael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> When I'm not dialing in the wrong direction, I'm forgetting to remove it. </div></div>
LOL.... EXACTLY.
Re: HOLDING vs DIALING
What LL said, BOTH!
I have scopes with MOA and mils, and a couple Horus. Even on the Horus, I prefer to dial if i have time. Yes, you can forget to dial back after a shot. That is a training issue, not an equipment issue.
In the rush of a shot, I have seen guys forget to dial their zoom, not to mention clicks. My son and I were shooting culls one evening from the top of a ridge. I pointed one out to him, he was struggling with a 350-400 yard shot, which for him should have been a putt. In front of me, I guess he was nervous, had the Horus scope on 4 power. That is a tough hold, and it was windy. I reached over and redialed the zoom to 16x.... now he was embarrassed as well as nervous. You guess the results, at least it was a clean miss.
My answer remains, both and practice both. Sometimes a combo of both, with Horus, GAP or mil reticles, dial what you have for dope, then hold corrections. The idea that one way is better or more special, isn't how I see it. Main thing I think, is your knobs and reticle ought to match, then you don't have to think "how many mils per MOA, or was it the other way around?".
See the splash, or hear the spotter call ( also helps if the spotter has a mil reticle in the scope, if you are shooting mil based), and make the move. No math needed. It is also why FFP scopes work so much better for follow up shots.
And sign up for the training, then save your money and go to a course.
What LL said, BOTH!
I have scopes with MOA and mils, and a couple Horus. Even on the Horus, I prefer to dial if i have time. Yes, you can forget to dial back after a shot. That is a training issue, not an equipment issue.
In the rush of a shot, I have seen guys forget to dial their zoom, not to mention clicks. My son and I were shooting culls one evening from the top of a ridge. I pointed one out to him, he was struggling with a 350-400 yard shot, which for him should have been a putt. In front of me, I guess he was nervous, had the Horus scope on 4 power. That is a tough hold, and it was windy. I reached over and redialed the zoom to 16x.... now he was embarrassed as well as nervous. You guess the results, at least it was a clean miss.
My answer remains, both and practice both. Sometimes a combo of both, with Horus, GAP or mil reticles, dial what you have for dope, then hold corrections. The idea that one way is better or more special, isn't how I see it. Main thing I think, is your knobs and reticle ought to match, then you don't have to think "how many mils per MOA, or was it the other way around?".
See the splash, or hear the spotter call ( also helps if the spotter has a mil reticle in the scope, if you are shooting mil based), and make the move. No math needed. It is also why FFP scopes work so much better for follow up shots.
And sign up for the training, then save your money and go to a course.
Re: HOLDING vs DIALING
Different situations require different approaches. In a F-class match I dial elevation and some of the wind depending on how much offset there is. I don't like holding completely off the target. Tactical match or hunting I'll combine dialing with holding or just hold depending on time constraints and conditions.
FFP scopes are the way to go. Turrets and reticle should match, doesn't matter to me which system. Whatever system is used should be able to decern 1/2 moa or smaller holds.
Horus reticle is a quick fix to dialing, but you have to put in the time and practice to be able to use it. I've seen some amazing runs using Horus.
Different situations require different approaches. In a F-class match I dial elevation and some of the wind depending on how much offset there is. I don't like holding completely off the target. Tactical match or hunting I'll combine dialing with holding or just hold depending on time constraints and conditions.
FFP scopes are the way to go. Turrets and reticle should match, doesn't matter to me which system. Whatever system is used should be able to decern 1/2 moa or smaller holds.
Horus reticle is a quick fix to dialing, but you have to put in the time and practice to be able to use it. I've seen some amazing runs using Horus.
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