Holly Smokes!! That Really Worked!! Speed Drop.

Jack Master

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SPEED DROP for the win!!!

This weekend I shot my first NRL Hunter match in Decorah Iowa. It was my first 'Find-Range-Engage' type of match. I ran speed drop the entire match and it was the best decision I could have made.

Gear
I shot this match in the factory class and decided to shoot a rifle that 90% of American hunters would go buy. (cheap!) No fancy barrel, action, Stock, scope or ammunition.
Rifle - Ruger American 6.5 Creedmoor - Added a muzzle break.
Scope - Vortex Strike Eagle 2-25x56 in a Spur mount (not a cheap mount but it was all I had that would fit)
Ammunition - Hornady Match 140ELDs (factory)
Bipod - Ckye Pod (I cheated and used an expensive bipod here)
Support bag - Mini sticky game changer with mix of git lite and sand
Tripod - Vortex Radian
Binos - Furry 5000 AB (i said a cheap rifle, not binos)

While preparing for this match I have heard stories of people timing out a lot and not being able to find targets or once they do find them they don't have time to range them, get data and then shoot them. I tried to take all of the intermediate steps out of the process from the time you find the target until you shoot the target. Running the speed drop did this the best. I only timed out on 1 or 2 of the 17 stages and those were from not finding the targets, rather than the intermediate steps taking too long.

SPEED DROP
I chronoed my rifle and ammo at 2650fpd, 140 Hornady Match 6.5 creed. Plugged that into my Hornady 4Dof app that was set up with thier bullet info and shot my dope out to 720 yards. 4Dof lined up perfectly and I didn't have to change or true the Velocity or BC. I was pretty surprised because I usually have to tweak something to get it right.
I plugged the drop data into my google sheet (Link) and it calculated a prime speed drop factor of 1.8. I decided to use 1.7 to have a 1/10 error in the middle of the range and then I stretched the near and far extremes to be 0.2 error. I had a speed drop factor of 1.7 and it works from 225yards out to 775yards. Its the perfect range for a match like the hunter series where targets are usually inside 800 yards.

1651621078015.png


Scope Set to Speed Drop
To set my gear up I decided to dial the distances. I zeroed my rifle at 100 yards and zeroed my turret. Then I took the turret off and re-set it to 1.7 mils, my speed drop factor. Now, when my scope is set to 1.7 mils is my 100yard zero. This made it so my 400 yard data is 4mils. 520 yard data is 5.2 mils and 750 yard data is 7.5 mils. See the pattern here? The yardage is the dope I had to put on the scope. Doing this I wouldn't have to lookup data on my arm board.

This is the idea but for my gun its 1.7mils rather than the 2.5 shown
1651621288069.png


Arm Board Data
I retyped my arm board data to add 1.7 mils to each yardage. See the table below - 100yards = 1.7 mils. Hence the adding of 1.7 to everything. This way if I had a target at 1100 Yards I could still look it up in the armboard and dial what ever is says. 1100yards --> dial 12.9mils (Bang!)

1651621360648.png


Using The speed drop in the match
IT WAS F'n AWESOME!! When on a stage all I had to do was range the target, write the distance down, then dial the scope. I didn't have to wait for the ballistics in the furry 5k to work, I didn't have to look up data, I didn't have to remember random numbers to dial too because the distance was right on my arm bar. 422yds - 4.2mils (BANG!) or 567yards 5.7mils (BANG!). This was the easiest, fastest, simplest way to shoot this match and I will 100% use it again. The entire match I had to look up data twice and that was because the targets were inside 225 yards. Really I could have held top of target and sent it but, at the top of my arm board I had written out [100-1.7--150-1.9--200-2.3--225-2.5] for the short range targets. After 250yards I knew the speed drop would work and all the way out to 775. For targets farther than 775yds I knew I would have to look at my arm bar and see what is says. I never had to shoot a target further then 775 so this was perfect. Speed Drop cut so much time out of the process, it was awesome!!

It was SO good that after the first day a couple of my buddies said "I need to get Faster" so I showed them what I was doing, we worked thier speed drop factors and distances out manually and then set thier rifles up. They both reported they timed out much less the 2nd day and it was the "Cat's Meow" to run that system. Proof to me that everyone and anyone can run this system.

A Bonus
Once your dial is set to your speed drop factor (1.7 for me) I can dial my scope back to zero and now my reticle becomes a BDC --> 3mil line = 300yrad 5mil = 500yard 7mil = 700yards. This works for the speed drop range. At any time I could have dialed down to 0 and held over the target distance.

Finish
For the rifle and gear used, as well as this bring my first match of the style, I was happy with my finish. 26th of 80 in the individuals. I had a couple hickups and my wooble from the tripod with a bag and 10lb gun was an issue but we managed to get things done. Some of the fellow factory shooters were bragging about thier higher scores and I said "lets divide our rifle cost by our points and then see who wins". It would have been me. I am pretty sure if I doubled the cost of my rifle it still cost less than all the rifles there, and that was the point of me shooting the match this way. My best excuse for my finish in this match is the stock of the Ruger American. If I loaded the bipod and flex in the stock forend would move my groups 1.5 inches high at 100yards. That's about a half mil. I missed a lot of targets high because of this. In the end, I'd still shoot this match with this rifle, but maybe a better stock.

If you are shooting this kind of match. or don't want to memorize your dope TRY THIS OUT!! Its worth the work to understand it.
 

7mmMato

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Good to see this review. We talked about this at Vapor Trail. Next match like this that I shoot I will be doing this as well. Nice Job by the way.
 
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OREGUN

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    I’m pretty psyched to try this. I shoot one long (three day) FRE match a year and the time to let the Fury binos calculate the drop is not negligible for 5 targets.
     

    Ledzep

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    Not a bad plan. I tried something similar and fudged my zero at the Wyoming match so that 300-800 lined up on or near even mil marks. Had I bumped it down 2 mils it would have lined up as described in the OP. Even what I did-- having the "tens" yardages line up with tenth mils on the turret was super helpful. 460 = 2.6, 630= 4.3. Quick and easy. Probably worth it to bump down 2 mils just to remove any plus/minus 2 in the equation.
     

    lowlight

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    In a way, for people who work inside these ranges, this is a pretty good way to do it with both the reticle and the turrets lining up to the yard line

    Dope, data management, and apps are confusing for people. This cleans that up for the casual shooter putting them inside their accuracy node.

    I think for people who are not "really into it" but enjoy the hobby, hate the math, this could work

    As well, the hunting crowd, it can change the game to use the range vs dope

    It's the Revic, using the range to target or the dope
     

    Jack Master

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    I’m pretty psyched to try this. I shoot one long (three day) FRE match a year and the time to let the Fury binos calculate the drop is not negligible for 5 targets.
    This was my thought precisely! They are a great tool to have the ballistics, but when your are on a clock, it can seem like f-o-r-e-v-e-r for them to flip from ranging to drop data. It was stage time I was not willing to give up. Plus, if you have the furry 5000s (without the AB side) you can utilize them too. Or any straight range finder without ballistic data.
     

    Leftie

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    Really good write up, and definitely worth the time to understand as a tool in your "tool kit". It very clearly seems to work well from your experiences!
     
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    Jack Master

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    Here is another benefit to the Speed Drop Chart that is on the Google Sheet (for Free). We can check our drop data numbers.

    Similar to this article -Going Inside the Numbers by Marc Taylor @Enough Said we can use this sheet to iron out a smooth flow in the value of our data. Gravity is consistent. our drop data should grow with consistency as well.

    This data was put into the spread sheet by someone else, not mine, and I took the opportunity to help them fix it a bit. In the speed drop chart your will see there isn't a nice curve of green boxes, but rather some that are out of line with the others. This is telling us we have a slightly wrong value for that data. When the speed drop factor reads 2.5-2.5-2.4-2.5-2.5 we can deduce the line with 2.4 is probably not correct. (see 550yds in the chart below for this example)

    This is the original data. I have red boxed the data that likely needs to change and I have shown arrows the direction the green box needs to move.

    1651694624233.png


    Here is the same rifle data with a couple data fixes. See the difference in the green arch? Its consistent and grouped together. Its only a 1/10th here and there to make adjustments but it will make all of your data line up better. See how the speed drop factor column does not have any out of order values? its goes up and then back down smoothly.

    1651694919211.png


    Gravity is consistent. our drop data should grow with consistency as well. I hope whoever's data this was comes back and checks it again to see the slight errors they had.
     

    Mechdesigner

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    Excellent shooting with a box store rifle! I might try this method out at the Vortex Team Match Finale. Saving that extra time getting the dope would really help out! Great write up!
     

    Jack Master

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    Excellent shooting with a box store rifle! I might try this method out at the Vortex Team Match Finale. Saving that extra time getting the dope would really help out! Great write up!
    Plus! You and your partner don't have to have the same data like some teams like to do. If you both run speed drop you both dial 4.5 mils for 450 yards. One might be a 1.4 speed drop and the other a 2.0 but ya both dial 4.5. No more matching ammo speeds and bc crap. Even a 223 and primary gun can run it.
     
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    Mechdesigner

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    Plus! You and your partner don't have to have the same data like some teams like to do. If you both run speed drop you both dial 4.5 mils for 450 yards. One might be a 1.4 speed drop and the other a 2.0 but ya both dial 4.5. No more matching ammo speeds and bc crap. Even a 223 and primary gun can run it.

    We went the matching Dope route for our first match, my 6.5 creed with 140s and his 223 running 88s lined up perfectly by dumb luck. We were still finding ourselves hunting for dope after getting a range though. Speed Drop seems like a great application for this type of match.
     

    DarinC

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    I’ve been kicking this around since your podcast with Blkwlf. Glad you posted it. I’m gonna try it out next range trip
     

    TheOtherAndrew

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    Just to set record straight...

    Speed Drop redefined the hold concept - Dial SD below 0.0 on turret requiring adjustable zero stop (100yd zero read 0.0 on turret), hold reps distance below centerline in certain range zone.

    Ted redifined Speed Drop - 100yd zero at SD# (1.8) on turret - all holds below centerline, but turrets rep distance.

    I redefined Ted - cleans up holds (preference); holds above centerline inside 400yd (400yd 'zero (center)' at 4.0 on turret), both holds and turrets rep distance, <400, above centerline, holds past 400 are cleaner (500=1.0 below center, 600=2.0 below 700=3.0 below) but not perfect for all calibers (can change 400/4.0 to 700/7.0 for 300Norma et al.).

    My way is different then Teds, granted they are all 'similar.' Need to tip barrel 0.X degrees to hit target at X00yd.

    *I just got so much heat for the 400yd center/zero proposition - so I want SOME credit ;)! (podcast) but whatever.

    rant over
     
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    Jack Master

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    Just to set record straight...

    Speed Drop redefined the hold concept - Dial SD below 0.0 on turret requiring adjustable zero stop (100yd zero read 0.0 on turret), hold reps distance below centerline in certain range zone.

    Ted redifined Speed Drop - 100yd zero at SD# (1.8) on turret - all holds below centerline, but turrets rep distance.

    I redefined Ted - cleans up holds (preference); holds above centerline inside 400yd (400yd 'zero (center)' at 4.0 on turret), both holds and turrets rep distance, <400, above centerline, holds past 400 are cleaner (500=1.0 below center, 600=2.0 below 700=3.0 below) but not perfect for all calibers (can change 400/4.0 to 700/7.0 for 300Norma et al.).

    My way is different then Teds, granted still similar. ZCO MPCT3 reticle really works for my method which is why I bought one for testing (2.0 above centerline to rep 100/200yd shots, 1.0 above = 300yd).

    Only other thing needed is a ranging card or funnel on reticle to really streamline everything - but how do you avoid the gaudiness...

    *I just got so much heat for the 400yd center/zero proposition - so I want SOME credit ;)! (podcast) but whatever.

    rant over
    No
    Dial on you 400 yard dope and hold over and under has been a drill Frank and Marc have been doing for 3 years in thier classes. You just explained it poorly when you tried to "invent" it. We did this in 2019 when I took Frank's class.
     
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    TheOtherAndrew

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    I see.

    I was trying to be cordial. If you think you already thought of it then IDK why your write up was all about holding under the center line? My addition was the 400yd center with under that holding above and over 400yd holding under crosshair.

    Yes Frank does a drill where you hold over/under and hit the targets....but he never talked about slipping the turret in those instances it was dial on your X00yd DOPE (2.2/3 say) and figure out your holds and how to use your reticle with no dialing. It was an exercise; not a 'set it and forget it' strategy - at the end you dialed turret back to 0.0 with 100yd POA/POI.

    When I hear someone say "we basically slipped the turrets to a 400yd zero" - kind of makes me think it had something to do with me not you because you never said anything about a 400yd center/zero. I made a thread and a poll and only 1 person (the smallest number there) said they used a 400yd zero, and the whole thread was about torching me for considering anything other than 100yd....

    Then there is the timing aspect....right after my thread got hot. You tried/used it at a match then wrote another thread within a week of my random thread that started going towards "well have you done it in real life yet?" - coincidence? And you used a couple new strategies for calculating those numbers - which I specifically enumerated in my thread prior.

    I will say it was a shit thread compared to yours, I didn't put in the time up front and lay it out all right away; that was on purpose.

    I would say Im surprised but what the point...all I was looking for was a shout out from you but you want to make it seem like Im delusional? If you aren't man enough to admit that I played even a tiny role in this fine...be that way - doesn't make it true. It also reveals a tad about you as a person...
     
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    chase723

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    SPEED DROP for the win!!!

    This weekend I shot my first NRL Hunter match in Decorah Iowa. It was my first 'Find-Range-Engage' type of match. I ran speed drop the entire match and it was the best decision I could have made.

    Gear
    I shot this match in the factory class and decided to shoot a rifle that 90% of American hunters would go buy. (cheap!) No fancy barrel, action, Stock, scope or ammunition.
    Rifle - Ruger American 6.5 Creedmoor - Added a muzzle break.
    Scope - Vortex Strike Eagle 2-25x56 in a Spur mount (not a cheap mount but it was all I had that would fit)
    Ammunition - Hornady Match 140ELDs (factory)
    Bipod - Ckye Pod (I cheated and used an expensive bipod here)
    Support bag - Mini sticky game changer with mix of git lite and sand
    Tripod - Vortex Radian
    Binos - Furry 5000 AB (i said a cheap rifle, not binos)

    While preparing for this match I have heard stories of people timing out a lot and not being able to find targets or once they do find them they don't have time to range them, get data and then shoot them. I tried to take all of the intermediate steps out of the process from the time you find the target until you shoot the target. Running the speed drop did this the best. I only timed out on 1 or 2 of the 17 stages and those were from not finding the targets, rather than the intermediate steps taking too long.

    SPEED DROP
    I chronoed my rifle and ammo at 2650fpd, 140 Hornady Match 6.5 creed. Plugged that into my Hornady 4Dof app that was set up with thier bullet info and shot my dope out to 720 yards. 4Dof lined up perfectly and I didn't have to change or true the Velocity or BC. I was pretty surprised because I usually have to tweak something to get it right.
    I plugged the drop data into my google sheet (Link) and it calculated a prime speed drop factor of 1.8. I decided to use 1.7 to have a 1/10 error in the middle of the range and then I stretched the near and far extremes to be 0.2 error. I had a speed drop factor of 1.7 and it works from 225yards out to 775yards. Its the perfect range for a match like the hunter series where targets are usually inside 800 yards.

    View attachment 7862223

    Scope Set to Speed Drop
    To set my gear up I decided to dial the distances. I zeroed my rifle at 100 yards and zeroed my turret. Then I took the turret off and re-set it to 1.7 mils, my speed drop factor. Now, when my scope is set to 1.7 mils is my 100yard zero. This made it so my 400 yard data is 4mils. 520 yard data is 5.2 mils and 750 yard data is 7.5 mils. See the pattern here? The yardage is the dope I had to put on the scope. Doing this I wouldn't have to lookup data on my arm board.

    This is the idea but for my gun its 1.7mils rather than the 2.5 shown
    View attachment 7862225

    Arm Board Data
    I retyped my arm board data to add 1.7 mils to each yardage. See the table below - 100yards = 1.7 mils. Hence the adding of 1.7 to everything. This way if I had a target at 1100 Yards I could still look it up in the armboard and dial what ever is says. 1100yards --> dial 12.9mils (Bang!)

    View attachment 7862227

    Using The speed drop in the match
    IT WAS F'n AWESOME!! When on a stage all I had to do was range the target, write the distance down, then dial the scope. I didn't have to wait for the ballistics in the furry 5k to work, I didn't have to look up data, I didn't have to remember random numbers to dial too because the distance was right on my arm bar. 422yds - 4.2mils (BANG!) or 567yards 5.7mils (BANG!). This was the easiest, fastest, simplest way to shoot this match and I will 100% use it again. The entire match I had to look up data twice and that was because the targets were inside 225 yards. Really I could have held top of target and sent it but, at the top of my arm board I had written out [100-1.7--150-1.9--200-2.3--225-2.5] for the short range targets. After 250yards I knew the speed drop would work and all the way out to 775. For targets farther than 775yds I knew I would have to look at my arm bar and see what is says. I never had to shoot a target further then 775 so this was perfect. Speed Drop cut so much time out of the process, it was awesome!!

    It was SO good that after the first day a couple of my buddies said "I need to get Faster" so I showed them what I was doing, we worked thier speed drop factors and distances out manually and then set thier rifles up. They both reported they timed out much less the 2nd day and it was the "Cat's Meow" to run that system. Proof to me that everyone and anyone can run this system.

    A Bonus
    Once your dial is set to your speed drop factor (1.7 for me) I can dial my scope back to zero and now my reticle becomes a BDC --> 3mil line = 300yrad 5mil = 500yard 7mil = 700yards. This works for the speed drop range. At any time I could have dialed down to 0 and held over the target distance.

    Finish
    For the rifle and gear used, as well as this bring my first match of the style, I was happy with my finish. 26th of 80 in the individuals. I had a couple hickups and my wooble from the tripod with a bag and 10lb gun was an issue but we managed to get things done. Some of the fellow factory shooters were bragging about thier higher scores and I said "lets divide our rifle cost by our points and then see who wins". It would have been me. I am pretty sure if I doubled the cost of my rifle it still cost less than all the rifles there, and that was the point of me shooting the match this way. My best excuse for my finish in this match is the stock of the Ruger American. If I loaded the bipod and flex in the stock forend would move my groups 1.5 inches high at 100yards. That's about a half mil. I missed a lot of targets high because of this. In the end, I'd still shoot this match with this rifle, but maybe a better stock.

    If you are shooting this kind of match. or don't want to memorize your dope TRY THIS OUT!! Its worth the work to understand it.
    I concur. Thanks for the thorough write up. I don’t shoot comps but shoot a lot of steel and fur. The first time I heard about Speed Drop I immediately went out and verified that it straight up works. It’s the fastest and most practicable way to apply shooting solutions, and is how I set up all my rifles now. It’s awesome.
     
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    Jack Master

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    The record is straight. You had nothing to do with what we did this weekend or the system we have been working on. I mean that genuinely. I will always give credit where credit is due and in this case, there is none where you seem to think there is. (Honest Truth, sorry bud)
     
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    KnowNothing256

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    I like the concept of making the dialing intuitive based on yardage. Have you considered simply marking the turret with temporary indicator for distances at a set interval, say 50 yards or so?

    Edited from here, accidentally clicked post too early:

    It would be easy to interpolate intermediate distances, just eyeball between the marks and you’d be within a tenth. Leupold came up with this ages ago with their CDS, but that has the obvious downsides of a) using their ballistic curves, and b) being locked to a certain set of load info and environmentals.

    Some have printed turret tape to accomplish the same, but even a bright paint pen or something similar would be sufficient. I did it with neon fingernail polish on my hunting scope this last year and couldn’t believe how intuitive and fast the dialing was. You’re limited to a single rev obviously, but on a mild 6.5CM load that still gets you out to 1000 yards.

    Thoughts?
     
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    lowlight

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    Yes,

    What we do in class is very different from what Ted flushed out. His method compliments our reticle lessons but expands on them. It’s another, albeit different tool for the toolbox.

    Remember

    0+4=4
    1+3=4
    2+2=4
    5-1=4

    We have a lot of ways to get to 4, Ted expanded the concept to work in both directions as well as created charts to visualize the concept and adjust the math to give you greater flexibility to open up the effective ranges.

    He expanded, reversed, and mapped a concept that was limited in its initial offering to provide a fuller picture
     

    verdugo60

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    Very cool man! Always interesting stuff from you.

    Do you think this would have issues if there was a major change in elevation/DA? Like if you checked dope at your home range to come up with your drop factor at 1000’ ASL and went to a Hunter match in Laramie, WY like Buffalo Bill’s Revenge that I shot where elevation was 7500’ ASL?

    I’m guessing you would need to have a part in your process to confirm initial dope at the different elevation/DA or fudge it by plugging in new DA to your kestrel, etc to determine adjusted drop factor.
     

    Jack Master

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    Very cool man! Always interesting stuff from you.

    Do you think this would have issues if there was a major change in elevation/DA? Like if you checked dope at your home range to come up with your drop factor at 1000’ ASL and went to a Hunter match in Laramie, WY like Buffalo Bill’s Revenge that I shot where elevation was 7500’ ASL?

    I’m guessing you would need to have a part in your process to confirm initial dope at the different elevation/DA or fudge it by plugging in new DA to your kestrel, etc to determine adjusted drop factor.
    Yes. Our DA is going to effect this system. Below is a table of the same rifle comparing Zero DA to 6000DA. I would not worry about the environmental changes over a day or maybe even a week because the effect will not be large enough, but changing major elevation or traveling would warrant a re-calculation.

    Zero DA
    Factor = 2.4
    Range = 325 to 825

    6000 DA
    Factor = 2.7
    Range = 425 to 975

    If you use the zero DA at 6000 DA you would be 3/10th off, about 1moa. This would not meet the accuracy criterial for me, but if the use had large enough targets (military Iron Maidens) it could still work to get the job done.

    1652736528439.png
     

    TheOtherAndrew

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    The record is straight. You had nothing to do with what we did this weekend or the system we have been working on. I mean that genuinely. I will always give credit where credit is due and in this case, there is none where you seem to think there is. (Honest Truth, sorry bud)
    Saucyyy!
     

    Jack Master

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    Awesome info! Thanks for sharing.
    And is that vet wrap on the stock as a cheek riser?
    Right on!
    Yep. Foam for the riser then self adhering Bandage (vet wrap) because it will only stick to itself and not the stock. I can always take it off and redo it or just remove it. Works Great for a temporary fix or for wen your trying to figure out high you want to make a permanent one.
     
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    PB&J.

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    Very cool man! Always interesting stuff from you.

    Do you think this would have issues if there was a major change in elevation/DA? Like if you checked dope at your home range to come up with your drop factor at 1000’ ASL and went to a Hunter match in Laramie, WY like Buffalo Bill’s Revenge that I shot where elevation was 7500’ ASL?

    I’m guessing you would need to have a part in your process to confirm initial dope at the different elevation/DA or fudge it by plugging in new DA to your kestrel, etc to determine adjusted drop factor.

    I've been using SDF almost exclusively, since first hearing about it.

    I run the numbers to find the best SDF for my average shooting DA (3,500ft in my case) and then re-run that SDF at other DA's to make "correction" cards. Similar to traditional dope cards, but instead of having total elevation numbers, it is just the correction, ie +0.3, -0.2 etc.

    EG, at 3,500ftDA I range and dial 725yds, apply the correction of 0.0 and hit waterline.
    At 500ftDA I range and dial 725yds, apply the correction of +0.2 (either hold over or dial the correction) and hit waterline.
    At 5,500ftDA I range and dial 725yds, apply the correction of -0.2 (either hold under or dial the correction) and hit waterline.
    This correction system also extends the useable range of SDF far beyond the window in which it matches POA/POI. EG, at 1,100yds I still dial 11.0, apply my correction of +2.7 (500ftDA), +1.8 (3,500ftDA), +1.3 (5,500ftDA) etc and still hit POA.

    This SDF method also works very well with a vital zone diameter and I colour code my corrections to further simplify things. If my POI will fall within +-3.5" of POA, my corrections are coloured green, if my POI will fall outside of +-3.5" of POA, my corrections are coloured red.
    I simply range my target and dial the yardage, if the correction for my DA/yardage is green, then I don't need to apply the correction to hit within my vital zone, but can if I want more precision. If it is red I do need to dial the correction or I will be outside of my vital zone.

    It has totally revolutionised my way of shooting.
     
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    verdugo60

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    I've been using SDF almost exclusively, since first hearing about it.

    I run the numbers to find the best SDF for my average shooting DA (3,500ft in my case) and then re-run that SDF at other DA's to make "correction" cards. Similar to traditional dope cards, but instead of having total elevation numbers, it is just the correction, ie +0.3, -0.2 etc.

    EG, at 3,500ftDA I range and dial 725yds, apply the correction of 0.0 and hit waterline.
    At 500ftDA I range and dial 725yds, apply the correction of +0.2 (either hold over or dial the correction) and hit waterline.
    At 5,500ftDA I range and dial 725yds, apply the correction of -0.2 (either hold under or dial the correction) and hit waterline.
    This correction system also extends the useable range of SDF far beyond the window in which it matches POA/POI. EG, at 1,100yds I still dial 11.0, apply my correction of +2.7 (500ftDA), +1.8 (3,500ftDA), +1.3 (5,500ftDA) etc and still hit POA.

    This SDF method also works very well with a vital zone diameter and I colour code my corrections to further simplify things. If my POI will fall within +-3.5" of POA, my corrections are coloured green, if my POI will fall outside of +-3.5" of POA, my corrections are coloured red.
    I simply range my target and dial the yardage, if the correction for my DA/yardage is green, then I don't need to apply the correction to hit within my vital zone, but can if I want more precision. If it is red I do need to dial the correction or I will be outside of my vital zone.

    It has totally revolutionised my way of shooting.
    That’s pretty cool, glad it’s working for you. I can see how this might be pretty sick for a Hunter match, could maybe save some time checking drop tables or a kestrel/binos on the clock. Find target, range, note yardage and dial it. Boom.
     

    PB&J.

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    That’s pretty cool, glad it’s working for you. I can see how this might be pretty sick for a Hunter match, could maybe save some time checking drop tables or a kestrel/binos on the clock. Find target, range, note yardage and dial it. Boom.

    It kicks ass for unknown distance or no prior info shooting under time constraints.

    I use it with everything from 223 to WinMag, my dope for everything is all the same (+-correction factors). A deer, pig (hog), or steel target 680 yds is 6.8 mils regardless of what rifle I'm shooting. The SDF itself and the optimum range window obviously differs, but every rifle when within its range window (for any given atmospherics) is just dial yardage and shoot. Or dial yardage, add correction, and shoot. Super simple.
     
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    Leatherlunger

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    @Jack Master @lowlight I emailed whoever runs the strelok app afew months ago after i read and tried out your guys speed drop methods. They worked so good i nerded out on your guys spreadsheets and made a few of my own and was like hey this would be sweet on an app. Thats the one i just so happen to use. They added it to the app!

    DE8F9360-8FA2-473D-A5F3-C885127C6B36.png
    9D09D5B5-15B9-4622-A267-93B51CF1CE56.png

    You guys blow my mind with the knowledge bombs all the time. Thank you guys for always pushing the envelope in the way that you do🤙🤙
     

    Leatherlunger

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    I asked him the app dude to add the mph gun number and danger space too in some way. Ill poke around and see if i see it somewhere.
     
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    Leatherlunger

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    Like Frank and crew talk about all the time, if you get a good paper zero, use weaponized math to get hard dope, precisely enter zeroing weather in the app, true mv at 600 and bc at 800 in your app, and accurately input all other required fields, the apps will work for you. Just playing w strelok, if your load is all validated and trued up and youre a DA guy, when you change DA’s you can see how your speed drop changes with bigger swings in DA in the app. I tried copy and pasting the speed drop table from the app to google sheets and it works. No formulas like @Jack Master tables which sucks but at least you can store how ever many tables for different mv’s and DA’s you want in google sheets🤙
     
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    Jack Master

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    @Jack Master @lowlight I emailed whoever runs the strelok app afew months ago after i read and tried out your guys speed drop methods. They worked so good i nerded out on your guys spreadsheets and made a few of my own and was like hey this would be sweet on an app. Thats the one i just so happen to use. They added it to the app!

    View attachment 7908411View attachment 7908412
    You guys blow my mind with the knowledge bombs all the time. Thank you guys for always pushing the envelope in the way that you do🤙🤙
    That's awesome! I'm glad to see apps picking this up.

    My question is - in the screen shot above, what is your speed drop factor? I'm not sure they are showing the right numbers yet. They have the right process but I cannot gather the speed drop prime number from this to which subtract the factor selection from.
     
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    Leatherlunger

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    Yeah its a screen shot from the app. I messed up the example because i had my speed drop inputed into the settings already


    This one is better


    5E504A28-8149-44CB-8068-7DA063990D14.png
     

    Leatherlunger

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    Heres an example of simulated DA changes with my 185 berger juggernaut at 2500fps. My zeroing weather is essentially a warm day at coastal sea level and low rh. The tables show da changes to the speed drop at -2000, +2000, +6000 and +10000 respectively.
    94FE43BA-EADC-49A9-9195-CC871FF8E921.png
    90E6FF8F-D4D4-4ED6-9DB1-F0D5664E05A8.png
    D5B4B9F1-C7C8-41EA-95AE-CF100025E2E6.png
    7008C7D6-2338-489E-882D-50296A88C8E5.png
     
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    6.5SH

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    Clever stuff from Igor in the app, if you have a MOA scope selected the button doesn't show.

    ETA:
    This is live in the Android version as well under the Cartridge section of a rifle profile.
     
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    6.5SH

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    Took me a few to understand how to apply it, even though it's in the screenshot above.

    Enter the speed drop number as a negative vertical offset:

    speed drop strelok.png
     
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    bassmaster07

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    Shot this way today from 750 to 400. Just dialed it out with no turret slip.

    Meaning target at 500 yards. Dial scope to 5 mil. Dial back out speed factor (-2.5) with dope on of 2.5 mils. Send it impact.

    Hunting gonna be good.
     
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    7mmMato

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    Ran this over the weekend at a NRL hunter one Match in Decorah Iowa. It works damn well. I ran a arm board with the distances under 400 and over 700. So I could dial the exact dope for those. But any thing between 4-700 yards just turned to the turret to match the yardage. Any misses were from my shooting or bad RangeFinder reads. With a little thought on how to implement this it works well.
     

    MrSwede

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    Not trying to be an old fart here, but how is this better than simply marking your turret with 2,3,4,5,6,7 etc above the mrad numbers?
     
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    Jack Master

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    Not trying to be an old fart here, but how is this better than simply marking your turret with 2,3,4,5,6,7 etc above the mrad numbers?
    Its the same idea but instead of needing the pen (and maybe tape) we can just rest our current turret.

    These are some of the benefits I see:
    1. Won't rub off like a marker
    2. Less confusion with multiple rows of numbers on the turret
    3. We can make this system work any where in the field. No pen or tape needed.
    4. This is a system you can carry in your pocket of knowledge to double check yourself
    5. My turret is too small and don't want to cover the mil numbers (if using tape)
    6. If I reset the turret to the speed drop value I can dial back to zero and the "tree reticle" becomes a yardage reticle.
    7. If I change atmosphere or DA I just need to re-set the turret, not rewrite all the numbers
    Some of these are all small and petty things that I think make it better. Some of them are a major difference that is better. Marking your turret is fine too. Speed drop is just another tool.

    Now I can ask the same question: How is marking the turret better than using speed drop?
     
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    KnowNothing256

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    Its the same idea but instead of needing the pen (and maybe tape) we can just rest our current turret.

    These are some of the benefits I see:
    1. Won't rub off like a marker
    2. Less confusion with multiple rows of numbers on the turret
    3. We can make this system work any where in the field. No pen or tape needed.
    4. This is a system you can carry in your pocket of knowledge to double check yourself
    5. My turret is too small and don't want to cover the mil numbers (if using tape)
    6. If I reset the turret to the speed drop value I can dial back to zero and the "tree reticle" becomes a yardage reticle.
    7. If I change atmosphere or DA I just need to re-set the turret, not rewrite all the numbers
    Some of these are all small and petty things that I think make it better. Some of them are a major difference that is better. Marking your turret is fine too. Speed drop is just another tool.

    Now I can ask the same question: How is marking the turret better than using speed drop?
    I also thought of making turrets, and have tinkered with it, sometimes to my detriment haha

    Advantages of marked turrets:
    - Works for all ranges up to one rev
    - Very intuitive, at least for me, even between marks (I used 50-yd increments)
    - Some makers will send you extra turrets, you can pre-mark them for different DA values (does mean you have to plan to carry them if expecting a DA change)

    Lessons learned:
    - Very difficult to find a marking medium that is both visible and durable; neon fingernail polish is what I landed on, after trying metallic sharpie and multiple gel and paint pens
    - The amount of DA required to throw off the marks is pretty substantial
    - As with any pre-built dope system, you need to mentally account for aerodynamic jump
    - It takes a lot of time to mark the turrets; I’d like a better tool in the future, maybe a quill?
     

    lowlight

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    Mentally account for AJ … Lol,

     

    KnowNothing256

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    Mentally account for AJ … Lol,

    The Modern Day Sniper guys have told me that once you get to ranges out around 800 or so, they use ballistic calculators if at all possible, rather than a prepped dope card (or equivalent marked on the turret). So, yeah not specifically AJ, but the intent is to get the best possible solution out at ranges where environmentals have an outsized effect.

    Anyone with a calculator can hop in and see how much AJ and spin drift and whatnot affect their trajectory, each can take it or leave it depending on how large a source of error it is. I only mentioned it since it technically is an influence, but yeah I don't actually think about it when I've run a marked turret. Dial, hold wind, press the shot. (y)
     

    lowlight

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    The Modern Day Sniper guys have told me that once you get to ranges out around 800 or so, they use ballistic calculators if at all possible, rather than a prepped dope card (or equivalent marked on the turret). So, yeah not specifically AJ, but the intent is to get the best possible solution out at ranges where environmentals have an outsized effect.

    Anyone with a calculator can hop in and see how much AJ and spin drift and whatnot affect their trajectory, each can take it or leave it depending on how large a source of error it is. I only mentioned it since it technically is an influence, but yeah I don't actually think about it when I've run a marked turret. Dial, hold wind, press the shot. (y)

    Maybe they don't know that Ballistic Calculators show you 3% of these drifts, why, so you can see it, the reality is far less

    Good for them promoting the myths out there but no way you should be using it

    If you compare Hornady to AB the SD numbers don't match, a clue to some as well as other show even less

    Sure a ballistic calculator will show you "how much" it's lying for effect

    End of Story
     

    akmike47

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    The Modern Day Sniper guys have told me that once you get to ranges out around 800 or so, they use ballistic calculators if at all possible, rather than a prepped dope card (or equivalent marked on the turret). So, yeah not specifically AJ, but the intent is to get the best possible solution out at ranges where environmentals have an outsized effect.

    Anyone with a calculator can hop in and see how much AJ and spin drift and whatnot affect their trajectory, each can take it or leave it depending on how large a source of error it is. I only mentioned it since it technically is an influence, but yeah I don't actually think about it when I've run a marked turret. Dial, hold wind, press the shot. (y)
    You do know who/what you're talking....never mind.

    Shits pointless.
     
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