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Home Defense Shotgun

TalkingBush

TalkingBush

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 18, 2010
324
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48
Charlotte, NC
I am thinking about getting a shotgun for home defense. I want it to go boom every time, so I'm thinking about an 870 or 590. I believe pump is a more reliable choice. I'm aware of the 11-87, Benelli M4, FN, etc... What would your ideal home defense setup be?
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

Remington Breacher with 10" barrel.Shoots very nicely with low recoil buckshot.These are Class III AOW weapons,tax stamp is only $5.

Am currently using an 870 with an 18" barrel until my form 4 comes back on the breacher.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

I think 20ga is more than adequate for home defense. Modern 20ga loadings don't yield up much to the 12ga anymore, but are a lot less daunting for smaller shooters. For ease of handling in close quarters, a youth model has better dimensions. 20ga buck loads typically toss approximately 20 pellets of #4 buck, roughly equivalent to 20 .22LR slugs going down the hallway in formation. For short distances, I like more spread, and have tested 20ga buck loads out of a rifled choke tube. They open up to sweep to full width of a hallway from about 5-10yd and on out. Aim low, they may crouch, but they can't fly. Much.

Using modern commercial 20ga buck loads and a semi works. The gun is far easier to handle, especially for smaller folks in the family, and modern semis are a lot more reliable. Consider a 20ga Saiga, if you can find one. They work, period.

Greg
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

I've got the Benelli M4. It is fairly compact and handles very well. I have put a few thousand rounds through it of several different kinds of ammo and it has never failed, jammed, or misfired.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

12 or 20 gauge pump will do the job for the home. I load #4 shot in my HD rounds. With an improved choke this round will sweep a hall way clean and maintain a good patter out to 15 yards.
Remington 870 or Ithaca 37 will do the job. Nothing fancy.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

12 Ga. Mossberg 590A1 20" barrel w/fiber optic ghost ring sights ,holds 9 rd, adj.stock,5rd side saddle,5rd stock saddle,surefire g2,Bayonet.
Scot
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think 20ga is more than adequate for home defense. Modern 20ga loadings don't yield up much to the 12ga anymore, but are a lot less daunting for smaller shooters. For ease of handling in close quarters, a youth model has better dimensions. 20ga buck loads typically toss approximately 20 pellets of #4 buck, roughly equivalent to 20 .22LR slugs going down the hallway in formation. For short distances, I like more spread, and have tested 20ga buck loads out of a rifled choke tube. They open up to sweep to full width of a hallway from about 5-10yd and on out. Aim low, they may crouch, but they can't fly. Much.

Using modern commercial 20ga buck loads and a semi works. The gun is far easier to handle, especially for smaller folks in the family, and modern semis are a lot more reliable. Consider a 20ga Saiga, if you can find one. They work, period.

Greg </div></div>
I gotta go with Mr. Greg on this one.
I had a Youth Model 870 that one of my boys outgrew. I put on a Blackhawk adjustable pistol grip stock (like on an AR).
Then I painted the stock and forearm red (my wife"s favorite color) and she loves it.
When I was still an instructor for our department, I always thought how much easier it would have been for the smaller female officers to qualify with a smaller shotgun that didn't have so much recoil.
Keep an eye on the pawnshops and you could probably snag a major deal.
The Mossberg Bantam would be good also. I personally don't like Mossbergs because the 2 that I've had the forearms rattled and they both kicked like a mule but they were reliable.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

Winchester, Remington, Mossberg...All are viable choices. You might want to handle each to decide for yourself how you like the differences in feel, action, safety position of each one.

Forget all this super shorty and 9+1 bayonet bullshit. Ever tried clearing a home with a 20" shotgun?.....it sucks. Get an 18" which is as short as you can go without having to wait and do paperwork.

And don't bother with all this magazine extension stuff either. The 4 or 5 rounds in the standard size magazine should be more than enough to solve any reasonable home defense issue. Many experts (Jeff Cooper included) subscribe to the idea that an old school coach gun w/external hammers and loaded with 1 slug and 1 buck and possibly carrying 3 or 4 extra rounds on the stock is very viable option. It certainly addresses the buck vs. slug dilemma.

Also try to resist the urge to make it all tactical ninja. Extra crap adds more weight and complicates the handling. If you want shit to hang on it, consider:
1) flashlight/surefire fore end - cause it'll be dark no one likes much less practice shooting with a flashlight

2) side saddle - given your domestic situation, leaving a shotgun in "squad ready" isn't always the best idea. Side saddles are probably one of the best ways have ammo available, but not in the weapon.

Choose your ammo carefully. Consider your neighbors (if any), and consider your layout and other residents of your home (if any). Remember you are liable for EVERY projectile that comes out of that gun.

Finally, PRACTICE! Don't get locked into the mentality that one rack of the action or a blast down the hallway or stairwell is going to do the job. Learn to employ it as you would a pistol or rifle. I would give some attention to handling a long gun in tight quarters...it's not an easy chore.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

The cleanup tool on the end of this Winchester 97 is enough to make most intruders change direction. My favorite shotgun that I used for home defense was a High Standard K120. It has an 18" barrel and a very smooth action. The only issue is that you would be limited to 2 3/4" shells. Mine is loaded with the 1st 3 rounds Turkey load, followed by 2 00 Buck. They can be found for about $150-$200. I believe a 20 gauge would be just as effective for HD also, just the sound of a shotgun racking would make most people "pinch button holes in their underwear."

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 17pt">Winchester 97 </span></span>

IMG_0248-2.jpg


<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 17pt">High Std. K-120</span></span>

high_standard_riot_gun.jpg
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

Home defense reliability comes down to YOU, not the weapon of choice. If you do not train to defend your home with walk throughs until it's second nature, no gun, rifle or pistol is going to be the be all end all piece.
Now the simple 12G with a good 'Tactical' round is a superb choice in either pump or semi. I like #1 Buck because it's based on a 7.62mm(.30) pellet size. I just have this thing for making 7.62mm sized holes, it works for me
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

Benelli.

M-1 Super 90 is a great, fast, reliable weapon.


Benellis.jpg



I say why stop with just one when you can have 2.
Nothing like redundancy when it comes to home protection
icon_woohoo.gif



DogWarning.jpg
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

I am DROOLING Over that Winchester 97!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I shot one of those when I first enlisted in the US Army - that is the shotgun that allows you to just hold down the trigger and keep on pumping - no trigger release required!!!!

Sweet..


My Rem 870, nothing fancy but gets the job done
shotgun.jpg
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

870 is the best shotgun ever made. lots of guns are prettier. Lots are fancier. None can boast the numbers or the reliability, though.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

Don't forget about the Benelli Nova. I have one with the 18" barrel and ghosy ring sights. So far it has been totally reliable and handles very well with the 18" barrel. They can also be had for very resonable prices too.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

my first choice would be the Winchester M-97, but what i do have is a Lefever double barreled 12 Ga. 18" barrels with Military brass 00 buck rounds.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

I currently use a flame-thrower. It has worked out fine for me thus far.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

wp870right.jpg


An older USMS specification Wilson Witness Protection (WP870) set up and choked for #4 Buck. These are also an AOW $5 transfer ... if you can find one.

870Police.jpg


A new Model 870 Police wearing luminous rifle sights, Houge OD stock and Wilson (a different Wilson) extended magazine tube. The Police version of the 870 is the height of reliability. But then I'm old school...

 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

Not too sure about everyones romance with buck. In the confines of ones own castle it seems a little edgy. The first round in my 590 is a trap load #8s, after that we progress to larger shot,#4,#0,slug. If you are going to take 1 1/8 oz. of birdshot and keep coming you are a hell of a lot tougher than me! The stiffer loads are actually cause the things that go bump in the night here are more apt to be large and four legged.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

I personally load my home shooter with #8 bird shot because I don't want it to over penetrate the walls, plus 400 pellets are a lot more "fun" to take out than 15 #00.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TalkingBush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not looking to wait 10 months for a form. </div></div>

10 Months? They must not like you.My last Form 4 took 9 WEEKS.Meantime,I run the same 870 Police Magnum I have for years.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally load my home shooter with #8 bird shot because I don't want it to over penetrate the walls, plus 400 pellets are a lot more "fun" to take out than 15 #00. </div></div>
Xactly!!
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

If you ever lived by or on Fort Drum, the things that go bump in the night can be wearing IOTV on two legs with malintent. Buck and slugs will do nicely.
Here in TN, shoot, this place is kinda too quiet, ol Pick Axe handle is fine and I just set loose the dog
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

Hmmm, 1 1/8 oz. @ 1200fps,= changes in attitude, changes in latitude. Ft Drum? Not even if you gave it to me! Tn. has got to be ten thousand times better!
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

I like my 590 just fine. I put a tritium front sight on it, a forend light, and a sidesaddle shell carrier. The best thing I did, though, was to put a CompStock on it. I can comfortably shoot full-power buck or slugs and being able to adjust the length of pull to fit me turned the scattergun into something I actually <span style="font-style: italic">enjoy</span> practicing with (having shorter-than-average arms made shooting the factory stock miserable).

As far as ammunition, check out some of the videos available on the 'net showing the difference between bird and buck on chickens, turkeys, etc. I used to subscribe to the "birdshot is safe and should do the job" school of thought, but then I had a friend catch a load of heavy field 7 1/2s from a full choke at less than twenty feet. The majority of the pattern nailed him in the upper right chest and shoulder. It bloodied him up bad and he now has a nasty scar, but he never lost mobility and none of the pellets penetrated more than three inches.

Ask yourself this: If a round won't penetrate a couple pieces of sheetrock, how can it be expected to penetrate enough in flesh to <span style="font-weight: bold">stop</span> a bad guy?
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noah Mercy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like my 590 just fine. I put a tritium front sight on it, a forend light, and a sidesaddle shell carrier. The best thing I did, though, was to put a CompStock on it. I can comfortably shoot full-power buck or slugs and being able to adjust the length of pull to fit me turned the scattergun into something I actually <span style="font-style: italic">enjoy</span> practicing with (having shorter-than-average arms made shooting the factory stock miserable).

As far as ammunition, check out some of the videos available on the 'net showing the difference between bird and buck on chickens, turkeys, etc. I used to subscribe to the "birdshot is safe and should do the job" school of thought, but then I had a friend catch a load of heavy field 7 1/2s from a full choke at less than twenty feet. The majority of the pattern nailed him in the upper right chest and shoulder. It bloodied him up bad and he now has a nasty scar, but he never lost mobility and none of the pellets penetrated more than three inches.

Ask yourself this: If a round won't penetrate a couple pieces of sheetrock, how can it be expected to penetrate enough in flesh to <span style="font-weight: bold">stop</span> a bad guy? </div></div>

See above ammo,its the answer to home defense
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noah Mercy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 7 1/2s from a full choke at less than twenty feet. The majority of the pattern nailed him in the upper right chest and shoulder. It bloodied him up bad and he now has a nasty scar, but he never lost mobility and none of the pellets penetrated more than three inches.

Ask yourself this: If a round won't penetrate a couple pieces of sheetrock, how can it be expected to penetrate enough in flesh to <span style="font-weight: bold">stop</span> a bad guy? </div></div>

I think one of the main problems with that is that by using a specifically made for humans round like 00shot in this case, shows the court you had intent to kill. Which in the courts eye's is not what you want. You're supposed to shoot to stop not to kill. This is just from legal precedent I've read and not necessarily my own opinion. #8 shot would show intent to stop an action where as #00 would be equivalent to a hollow point .45 at least in the courts eyes... and again this is just based on precedent I have read.

Personally I'd prefer to pull a Switchblade and axe the fooker to death.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

Actually, since 00 is called <span style="font-style: italic">buck</span>shot, it really would be a hard sell to claim it is an "anti-human" round. And I would think that by using a round that was less likely to stop the bad guy, you could be accused of intent to maim...if you survive the encounter. Would you rather have a horribly scarred, possibly blinded burgler garnering sympathy in civil court suing you for disfiguring him, or an investigation into the scumbag that is laying dead in the hallway to your bedroom?

And I'd sure be interested in any precedents you've read about where a law-abiding citizen using <span style="font-style: italic">the same ammunition as carried by military and law enforcement</span> was successfully prosecuted in a court of law. In point of fact, a 22 is very likely to kill someone, but it is a poor stopper, just like buckshot is a good stopper while birdshot is a maimer.

There's a reason LEOs and our armed forces carry 00...it <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">stops</span></span> the threat. It doesn't just piss it off and leave it ambulatory so it can kill the good guy.

But you are certainly welcome to your opinion. Have a great Independence Day, pard.
grin.gif
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noah Mercy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, since 00 is called <span style="font-style: italic">buck</span>shot, it really would be a hard sell to claim it is an "anti-human" round. And I would think that by using a round that was less likely to stop the bad guy, you could be accused of intent to maim...if you survive the encounter. Would you rather have a horribly scarred, possibly blinded burgler garnering sympathy in civil court suing you for disfiguring him, or an investigation into the scumbag that is laying dead in the hallway to your bedroom?

And I'd sure be interested in any precedents you've read about where a law-abiding citizen using <span style="font-style: italic">the same ammunition as carried by military and law enforcement</span> was successfully prosecuted in a court of law. In point of fact, a 22 is very likely to kill someone, but it is a poor stopper, just like buckshot is a good stopper while birdshot is a maimer.</div></div>

Juries have shown a prejudice against police type ammo (hollow points) in civilian guns, #00 is in that category. The nomenclature or the round isn't important and the lawyers do a very exacting job explaining what it is and how it works. The rounds could be called "fuzz balls and rainbows," the name doesn't matter at all. So while we both can easily agree that it shouldn't be that way, the juries overwhelmingly don't agree with you and I. Like I said, it's not my own personal opinion, it's the juries that matters...
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you ever lived by or on Fort Drum, the things that go bump in the night can be wearing IOTV on two legs with malintent. Buck and slugs will do nicely.
Here in TN, shoot, this place is kinda too quiet, ol Pick Axe handle is fine and I just set loose the dog </div></div>I just left Drum 4 months ago.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Noah Mercy said:
7 1/2s from a full choke at less than twenty feet. The majority of the pattern nailed him in the upper right chest and shoulder. It bloodied him up bad and he now has a nasty scar, but he never lost mobility and none of the pellets penetrated more than three inches.

Ask yourself this: If a round won't penetrate a couple pieces of sheetrock, how can it be expected to penetrate enough in flesh to <span style="font-weight: bold">stop</span> a bad guy? [/quote


I think one of the main problems with that is that by using a specifically made for humans round like 00shot in this case, shows the court you had intent to kill. Which in the courts eye's is not what you want. You're supposed to shoot to stop not to kill. This is just from legal precedent I've read and not necessarily my own opinion. #8 shot would show intent to stop an action where as #00 would be equivalent to a hollow point .45 at least in the courts eyes... and again this is just based on precedent I have read.

Personally I'd prefer to pull a Switchblade and axe the fooker to death. </div></div>

Never knew 00 Buck was developed to kill humans.Learn something new every day.

Ammo questions aside,I would think that the majority of shotguns we choose for defense and the configurations,IE; Mossberg 590,Rem 870 Police,Rem Breacher and Witness Protection Models,Serbu,etc along with side saddle ammo holders,ghost ring sights,pistol grips,and in the case of one poster on this thread,A BAYONET!!! Go ahead and load that puppy with Birdshot instead of Buckshot or Slugs.You might get away with it if you are using some Gucci O/U Double with 28" barrels and play the stupid card.

Anyway,the old saying,"Better to be Judged by 12 than Carried by 6" holds true to this day in my book.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

870. Rifled choke tube, ext mag, side saddle, rifle sights, big head safety.WW slugs. My "Harlem Credit Card"
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

Going back to the 20ga and the rifled choke; I think it has a special place in home defense.

First, let's examine the commercial 20 buck load. It packs 20-22 pellets of #4 buck, about 22 caliber. Seen from the other end, it's about the equivalent of an entire 20rd magazine from an AR, all arriving ontarget together. A little slower. Not my idea of a friendly welcome. Yet, it's user friendly, far moreso than a 12ga OO buck load. Misses tend to slow down and stop with less penetration, too.

Then, let's examine the rifled choke tube. Bad for shot, they say. Well, why? Well, because it disrupts the pattern, opening it up really wide, swirling it out at some significant degrees.

Well, IMHO, buck is a great tool, once it reaches a distance where the pattern opens up and you get some coverage. Unfortunately, such distances don't exist indoors.

The rifled choke repatterns the buckwad into a buckstorm. Buckstorm, maybe that's a new word?

Just the thing I want to send swirling down the hall at a perp or two coming my way from the other end. A bang, followed by excruciating pain in many parts of the body, all at once; now that's a persuader. I'd follow the buckstorm with a comment about how there's more waiting where that came from, but there are some qualifiers. First, if you've ever fired a shotgun in a confined space, you know that all participants have just been rendered as deaf as a buncha stumps. Secondly, I'd just as likely to be inclined to share some more of the wealth at that point, just fershurfershur.

Then there's the 20ga slug. Nuthin' fancy, plain old Remington Slugger will do. Oh no, not for rifled chokes you say... Well, try it before you pooh pooh it. Outta my 20ga semi with dot scope and rifled choke tube, 'lo and behold; them babies pattern fist-size at 60-70yd. You might find similar.

Alternating buck and slug, you have a useful mix, catering to close in and further out. Buck's next and there's something you'd rather not spray? Good, put it into the ceiling above the perp. Harm averted, message still sent.

Thinking's good, but as said above, walkthroughs, etc., are better.

Greg
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

Buck vs. Bird: it's my understanding that if lethal force is required, only lethal force is appropriate. Shooting to wound (birdshot), as has been pointed out, leaves someone to testify against you, all scarred up and pitiable. Another detraction is that birdshot leaves the bad guy mobile and still capable of doing bad things. Like coming back later with friends.
Buck for me, thanks. Stops the threat once and forever.

1911fan
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

Interesting, many folks weighing in on this subject even though it has sorta 'morphed into buck vs bird. After letting the debate sit and stew in my pea brain overnight, I believe I'll let the first round of bird sit on the top of the stack. I'll take the arguably less lethal first round results option. Nothing says one can't jack it out on the floor and go to option two. I am absolutely unconvinced as to the non-lethality of bird at close range however.
I do believe a good light slung underneath or beside the barrel is at least as important as the first round choice. I also believe the scattergun is the go to solution for those things that disrupt a peaceful slumber.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noah Mercy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 7 1/2s from a full choke at less than twenty feet. The majority of the pattern nailed him in the upper right chest and shoulder. It bloodied him up bad and he now has a nasty scar, but he never lost mobility and none of the pellets penetrated more than three inches.

Ask yourself this: If a round won't penetrate a couple pieces of sheetrock, how can it be expected to penetrate enough in flesh to <span style="font-weight: bold">stop</span> a bad guy? </div></div>

I think one of the main problems with that is that by using a specifically made for humans round like 00shot in this case, shows the court you had intent to kill. Which in the courts eye's is not what you want. You're supposed to shoot to stop not to kill. This is just from legal precedent I've read and not necessarily my own opinion. #8 shot would show intent to stop an action where as #00 would be equivalent to a hollow point .45 at least in the courts eyes... and again this is just based on precedent I have read.

Personally I'd prefer to pull a Switchblade and axe the fooker to death. </div></div>
off subject a bit maybe but gotta running joke sort of that when i respond to bumps in the night i always pass the gun the sword and end up clearing the house with some ludicrous implement i pick up on the way to the sound. last night it was a chisel and hammer,lol. the week before i cleared the garage with a garden spade half asleep,lol.
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

As far as ammo goes duplex loads 00 and 7 1/2 with a wax binder acts like a frag / flys like a slug.Real slugs for fleeing driver of getaway car .Backhoe stops legal issues."what was all that ruckus at your place last night"? Fox in the henhouse?Yeah thats right, how did you know???
Scot
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

Forgot to add in my post: hidden around the house are: short 870, full size FN Police Mk 1 semi auto, both 12 gauge loaded with buck, one 1911 with Crimson Trace grips and spare mag, and a .357 revolver. I sleep next to a Series 80 1911, Surefire, and spare mag.
I'm not paranoid. Just prepared!


1911 fan
 
Re: Home Defense Shotgun

i find with age im a lot less paranoid or prepared but a lot more "spontaneous" and crafty.
 
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