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Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract bolt.

B

bodywerks

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 19, 2010
1,683
67
50
Tucson,Arizona
#1
I bought some hornady brass just because it would get me shooting this weekend. I started with 90.5 grains of retumbo under the 300 Bergers, this is about 4 grains under max. First and third shot of the 5 required a mallet against the bolt handle to get the brass out. I found this rather peculiar because thee was absolutely no signs of pressure on the brass. In fact there was soot around the neck, which I have been told is a sign of not enough pressure.
Anyway, I loaded another 5 rounds each of 91.5, 92.5, and 93 grains and the heavy bolt extraction showed itself at random. There was still no signs of pressure on the brass, and still soot around the necks. Out of the 20 pieces, about 5-7 of them got the mallet treatment.
My question is, is this more than likely a brass problem? I have heard a few complaints about the hornady stuff when it comes to 338 lapua. A friend of mine has had the same problem with anywhere from 85-91 grains of retumbo. Or should I be looking at the rifle (Savage 110BA) or possibly powder choice?
Another side note is that I couldn't get the chamber-fired brass to body size. I have a Redding Match grade body sizer die and the brass started getting stuck to the point of needing to get hammered out with nearly 5/16" still exposed. I am using RBS spray lube, which has worked fine for me in the past...
 
#3
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract bolt.

I had a similar problem with a 7.62 nato chamber once, and I tracked it down to gun oil in the chamber preventing the brass from gripping the wals of the chamber and slamming into the bolt when fired. A good cleaning of the chamber (and tumbling the cases before finishing reloading to remove the lube solved my problems.).

As to pressure causing the issue--What do the primers look like? Any ejector swipe?

As to the lube: as the cases get larger, the forces required to size them also get larger, and the lubrication qualities of the lube become necessarily greater.
 
#4
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract bolt.

I have had this problem with factory Hornady 338 lapua rounds, just about every other shot I would get heavy bolt lift. I only use Lapua brass now and the problem has seamed to go away.
 
#5
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

I get this very same problem with lapua brass but I find my issue shows up after a string of fire when my action is hot. I feel it is more of a chamber issue in my case- I have over 1k rounds down this tube so far.
 
#6
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

It is your Savage chamber. I believe they're using absolute-minimum tolerance chamber reamers.

I can't get full-length sized .338LM brass (Lapua and BeLL) once-fired in other rifles to extract from a Savage, either. I use Redding Competition full-length body-size dies with neck bushings and Forster Benchrest dies.

Once the Savage chambers heat and expand I'd have to get up out of prone, point the muzzle straight up, and slap the bolt handle down to get it to extract and eject (with factory Hornady 250s).

On the first (of two) Savages I had for review I had to punch out the cases with a cleaning rod.
 
#7
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

Hmmm...guess I will have to shoot some lapua through it and see if I get the same results. if i do ill get a hold of savage. But he sticky bolt issue has happened on a cold chamber as well as a warm chamber. I hope its not a charge problem because I want to send these bergers as fast as I can to send them as far as I can.
 
#8
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

I used virgin Lapua and BeLL cases and had extraction problems (the handle would rotate but you'd have to REALLY jerk it back hard).

Twice-fired cases would stick and the extractor would just slide off the rims.
 
#9
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

I had that problem useing Norma brass. A friend gave me some Lapua brass and even though I used the same 300grain SMK and same load, no more difficult extraction.
myerfire
 
#10
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a similar problem with a 7.62 nato chamber once, and I tracked it down to gun oil in the chamber preventing the brass from gripping the wals of the chamber and slamming into the bolt when fired. A good cleaning of the chamber (and tumbling the cases before finishing reloading to remove the lube solved my problems.).

As to pressure causing the issue--What do the primers look like? Any ejector swipe?

As to the lube: as the cases get larger, the forces required to size them also get larger, and the lubrication qualities of the lube become necessarily greater. </div></div>
Primers are not flat at all and no cratering. No shiny anything on the base of the case, i.e. no evidence of brass flow into the ejector pin hole.
As for the resizing, I will try more lube. But I pretty much couldn't even force the case in with the weight of my 200 pound body on the handle. All it took was 15-20 pounds of force, and I mean a quick push/pull attempt on the handle would cause the case to get stuck.
 
#12
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

I cleaned the barrel. Then I though about the chamber afterwards so I took some gunslick solvent to it and chucked up a 12ga bore cleaning brush and scrubbed the shit out f it and finished off with some hoppes 9. I haven't fired since but I may tomorrow so we'll find out then. I've still got it on my mind that its just crap brass though...
 
#14
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

If the bolt handle lifts reasonably easy but won't come back without hammering or yanking on the handle, it's likely not the brass (though the Hornady stuff is abominably soft) at fault here.

We had similar issues with the early prototype rifles, and the problem was supposed to be fixed on the production ones, but I'd heard a few slipped out before it got solved. AFAIK, the problem isn't the chamber (they use SAAMI spec reamers from JGS) but the primary extraction cam.

Pull the bolt, take the handle off and look at the cam surface on the rear baffle (the sliding part in front of the bolt handle). If the inner edge looks like it's peened over, you need to contact Savage and give them the chance to make it right.

If you need help getting ahold of them, shoot me a PM or email and I'll get ahold of them and put a bug in their ear.

Monte
 
#15
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

Thanks for the insight, Monte. The bolt is pretty hard to lift. I am starting to think that this rifle just doesn't need all the charge that the books call for. I took it out today with the bergers over 94 grains of retumbo and every one had heavy bolt lift and needed a tap of the bolt handle to extract.
I think I just got too excited to shoot it and got in a hurry.
I'm gonna start from square one with the minimum charge for both retumbo and the US869 I just bought(and H1000 when I can get it) and chrony the rounds to get a better idea of pressure and velocity. I think I may be over 2800 already - it only took about 7.5-8 MOA to get to 550 yards today @5000ft density altitude. Shooter tells me it shoulda took 9.5.
 
#16
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

I found there was quite a velocity difference between my handloads around 2900 fps and Hornady factory (lower but unclocked).

The slower Hornadys took more effort to extract.
 
#17
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

I've seen the same issue with Hornady .338 LM brass in several rifles. Lapua brass worked fine in all of them. This was a year or so back.
 
#18
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

UPDATE...the answer to my original question is YES!!! Switched to lapua brass and the bolt lift/extraction problem has seemed to vanish - seems you get what you pay for...
 
#19
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bodywerks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">UPDATE...the answer to my original question is YES!!! Switched to lapua brass and the bolt lift/extraction problem has seemed to vanish - seems you get what you pay for...</div></div>

I just started having probs with my once fired Hornady brass yesterday and today stuck cases and heavy soot with 96gr of retumbo and 250 smks. Cleaning rod style extraction is not my idea of fun at the 1000yd line!!

Lapua city here I come!
 
#20
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

I started having heavy bolt lift at 89 grains of retumbo with the hornady brass. Today I only went to 91 grains with the lapua but the bolt lift/extraction was still like butter. Have 92, 93, 94 grains loaded up for next time, and I suspect there will be no bolt lift problems...
 
#21
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

It was 60 rounds. I suspect you are running lighter pills than I am on your TRG. 300 grain bullets tend to put more load on brass than the lighter units. Seems to me that the hornady brass just isn't up to the task...
Bottom line is my bolt lift/extraction problem seems to have vanished by switching to the lapua brass, and has rendered the hornady brass useless for me. As far as I'm concerned that makes them junk, for me at least. Good news is that if you like it so much I'll sell you what I have at 50 cents on the dollar...
 
#24
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract b

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this only in the Savage rifles this problem is occuring in? I've been using the Hornady brass with great success and no issues, 250 and 300 grainers. </div></div>

No, I had the same problem with my PGW Timberwolf action with a krieger barrel.
 
#25
Re: Hornady 338 LM brass = junk??? can't extract bolt.

Hornady uses Hornady brass on the .338 lapua ammo, we have tried 6 separate lots of hornady .338 lapua and it jams in all cases, it won’t be reliable until they use lapua brass..... Advice use only manufactures that utilize Lapua Brass.

Scrider
 
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