I just recently got some headspace gauges so I could accurately set up my full length resizing die for my 30-06. Problem is that I actually increase the headspace (case grows) and then the die is touching the shell holder, so I never get any bump back and I run out of adjustment. Is there something I'm doing wrong?
Hornady headspace gauges?
- Thread starter johncamino
- Start date
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
Consider a Redding Comp set of shell holders. There are other ways. But that's the simplest.
Consider a Redding Comp set of shell holders. There are other ways. But that's the simplest.
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
Agree wholeheartedly with victor, getting a set was one of the best pieces of advice I got here, it really takes the guesswork out of sizing, and since you have the measurement tools, it allows you to take advantage of them
Agree wholeheartedly with victor, getting a set was one of the best pieces of advice I got here, it really takes the guesswork out of sizing, and since you have the measurement tools, it allows you to take advantage of them
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
<span style="font-style: italic">"Consider a Redding Comp set of shell holders. There are other ways. But that's the simplest."</span>
I haven't used them but Redding says those shell holder are higher, not lower, so the difficult sizing problem would be made worse.
<span style="font-style: italic">"Consider a Redding Comp set of shell holders. There are other ways. But that's the simplest."</span>
I haven't used them but Redding says those shell holder are higher, not lower, so the difficult sizing problem would be made worse.
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
You are right, fuzz, I misread that! If you need to bump the shoulder back farther than a f/l die, adjusted to touch a standard holder will give (I.e. You need to push it in further), then you might need a custom die, because IIRC body dies are usually built to SAAMI minimum chamber size dimensions, so do you have an under-sized chamber? Theoretically, a f/l die, adjusted to touching will result in the minimum headspace length case allowable by spec. I guess my question is, why do you want/need to make it smaller than that?
Or is the meaning of your post that when you try to size smaller, the headspace length increases? If that is the case, and the die and s/h are the correct ones, could it be excessive work-hardening of the brass, and thus spring-back to a larger than die dimension? Or a damaged die?
You are right, fuzz, I misread that! If you need to bump the shoulder back farther than a f/l die, adjusted to touch a standard holder will give (I.e. You need to push it in further), then you might need a custom die, because IIRC body dies are usually built to SAAMI minimum chamber size dimensions, so do you have an under-sized chamber? Theoretically, a f/l die, adjusted to touching will result in the minimum headspace length case allowable by spec. I guess my question is, why do you want/need to make it smaller than that?
Or is the meaning of your post that when you try to size smaller, the headspace length increases? If that is the case, and the die and s/h are the correct ones, could it be excessive work-hardening of the brass, and thus spring-back to a larger than die dimension? Or a damaged die?
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
Call Redding's toll free phone line and ask. I have had good luck using them.
Call Redding's toll free phone line and ask. I have had good luck using them.
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
I have the die screwed down all the way into the press. Using the gauge that I got it doesn't bump it back it all, it actually increases it by .001" The chamber is cut to the min SAAMI specs for a 30-06. I started by measuring a once fired case, and my goal was to bump it back .002", but I can't get there. I'm using Hornady dies, but I've been thinking about switching.
thanks,
John
I have the die screwed down all the way into the press. Using the gauge that I got it doesn't bump it back it all, it actually increases it by .001" The chamber is cut to the min SAAMI specs for a 30-06. I started by measuring a once fired case, and my goal was to bump it back .002", but I can't get there. I'm using Hornady dies, but I've been thinking about switching.
thanks,
John
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
You dont have the die down far enough in the press, I'm telling ya. Twist it down another 1/8 or 1/4 turn. It in no way hurts the press for it to cam over quite a bit...
The cases get longer just before they start getting shorter.
You dont have the die down far enough in the press, I'm telling ya. Twist it down another 1/8 or 1/4 turn. It in no way hurts the press for it to cam over quite a bit...
The cases get longer just before they start getting shorter.
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dont have the die down far enough in the press, I'm telling ya. Twist it down another 1/8 or 1/4 turn. It in no way hurts the press for it to cam over quite a bit...
The cases get longer just before they start getting shorter. </div></div>
Dude, his die is touching the shellholder, he could screw it down 15 turns and it still wont change anything.
My question is, the once fired case you are trying to bump back, is it difficult to chamber in the rifle? If it chambers smoothly I would say retry your measurements, because if the bolt closes as easy as it does with no case then you have headspace room. Do you have a set of go no go gauges? If so and the no-go wont chamber, measure it with your comparator and see where you are at.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dont have the die down far enough in the press, I'm telling ya. Twist it down another 1/8 or 1/4 turn. It in no way hurts the press for it to cam over quite a bit...
The cases get longer just before they start getting shorter. </div></div>
Dude, his die is touching the shellholder, he could screw it down 15 turns and it still wont change anything.
My question is, the once fired case you are trying to bump back, is it difficult to chamber in the rifle? If it chambers smoothly I would say retry your measurements, because if the bolt closes as easy as it does with no case then you have headspace room. Do you have a set of go no go gauges? If so and the no-go wont chamber, measure it with your comparator and see where you are at.
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dont have the die down far enough in the press, I'm telling ya. Twist it down another 1/8 or 1/4 turn. It in no way hurts the press for it to cam over quite a bit...
The cases get longer just before they start getting shorter. </div></div>
Dude, his die is touching the shellholder, he could screw it down 15 turns and it still wont change anything.</div></div>
Bullshit. You need to get all the slop out of the press, and in some cases, they need a good cam over. Just touching does not get that last .002 in many cases.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dont have the die down far enough in the press, I'm telling ya. Twist it down another 1/8 or 1/4 turn. It in no way hurts the press for it to cam over quite a bit...
The cases get longer just before they start getting shorter. </div></div>
Dude, his die is touching the shellholder, he could screw it down 15 turns and it still wont change anything.</div></div>
Bullshit. You need to get all the slop out of the press, and in some cases, they need a good cam over. Just touching does not get that last .002 in many cases.
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
I don't have a set of go no go gauges. S&S precision in Dallas cut the chamber and I asked it be at SAAMI mins so I could seat close to the lands and still have OAL's that would fit in my magazine.
I'll have to see if I can borrow one and try it out.
I don't have a set of go no go gauges. S&S precision in Dallas cut the chamber and I asked it be at SAAMI mins so I could seat close to the lands and still have OAL's that would fit in my magazine.
I'll have to see if I can borrow one and try it out.
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elcam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have a set of go no go gauges. S&S precision in Dallas cut the chamber and I asked it be at SAAMI mins so I could seat close to the lands and still have OAL's that would fit in my magazine.
I'll have to see if I can borrow one and try it out. </div></div>
No worries about that if Stick built your rifle. He built one for me while he was working with Speedy, and it shoots great.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elcam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have a set of go no go gauges. S&S precision in Dallas cut the chamber and I asked it be at SAAMI mins so I could seat close to the lands and still have OAL's that would fit in my magazine.
I'll have to see if I can borrow one and try it out. </div></div>
No worries about that if Stick built your rifle. He built one for me while he was working with Speedy, and it shoots great.
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
I just found this, and I'm wondering if this is what's going on.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/die-issues-when-bumping-shoulders/
I just found this, and I'm wondering if this is what's going on.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/die-issues-when-bumping-shoulders/
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elcam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just found this, and I'm wondering if this is what's going on.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/die-issues-when-bumping-shoulders/
</div></div>
"we screwed the RCBS die in 1/8th turn past touching to allow “cam-over” which is necessary with some presses to actually push the shoulder back."
Screw the die a little further in the press...
I learned this over 10 years ago with a case I was having the exact same issue on. Give it a try, what do you have to lose at this point?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elcam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just found this, and I'm wondering if this is what's going on.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/die-issues-when-bumping-shoulders/
</div></div>
"we screwed the RCBS die in 1/8th turn past touching to allow “cam-over” which is necessary with some presses to actually push the shoulder back."
Screw the die a little further in the press...
I learned this over 10 years ago with a case I was having the exact same issue on. Give it a try, what do you have to lose at this point?
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elcam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just found this, and I'm wondering if this is what's going on.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/die-issues-when-bumping-shoulders/
</div></div>
"we screwed the RCBS die in 1/8th turn past touching to allow “cam-over” which is necessary with some presses to actually push the shoulder back."
Screw the die a little further in the press...
I learned this over 10 years ago with a case I was having the exact same issue on. Give it a try, what do you have to lose at this point? </div></div>
Listen to the man!
On my 6.5 Grendel, I had to screw the die in almost 1 full turn from where it touched the shell holder. Even the slightest adjustment in or out throws it off and my bullets won't chamber.
Read the directions for your die. It should say something to the effect of "Screw in die until it touches shell holder, then a further 1/4-1/2 turn. If your sized case won't chamber, continue screwing it in 1/16-1/8 of a turn until the die is set correctly." My Redding dies suggest 1/32 of a turn until it's set.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elcam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just found this, and I'm wondering if this is what's going on.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/die-issues-when-bumping-shoulders/
</div></div>
"we screwed the RCBS die in 1/8th turn past touching to allow “cam-over” which is necessary with some presses to actually push the shoulder back."
Screw the die a little further in the press...
I learned this over 10 years ago with a case I was having the exact same issue on. Give it a try, what do you have to lose at this point? </div></div>
Listen to the man!
On my 6.5 Grendel, I had to screw the die in almost 1 full turn from where it touched the shell holder. Even the slightest adjustment in or out throws it off and my bullets won't chamber.
Read the directions for your die. It should say something to the effect of "Screw in die until it touches shell holder, then a further 1/4-1/2 turn. If your sized case won't chamber, continue screwing it in 1/16-1/8 of a turn until the die is set correctly." My Redding dies suggest 1/32 of a turn until it's set.
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
You were spot on, I put it in a little further and I was finally able to get it to bump back a .001"-.002" Crazy that right before it bumps back it increases .003-.005"
thanks,
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dont have the die down far enough in the press, I'm telling ya. Twist it down another 1/8 or 1/4 turn. It in no way hurts the press for it to cam over quite a bit...
The cases get longer just before they start getting shorter. </div></div>
You were spot on, I put it in a little further and I was finally able to get it to bump back a .001"-.002" Crazy that right before it bumps back it increases .003-.005"
thanks,
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dont have the die down far enough in the press, I'm telling ya. Twist it down another 1/8 or 1/4 turn. It in no way hurts the press for it to cam over quite a bit...
The cases get longer just before they start getting shorter. </div></div>
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dont have the die down far enough in the press, I'm telling ya. Twist it down another 1/8 or 1/4 turn. It in no way hurts the press for it to cam over quite a bit...
The cases get longer just before they start getting shorter. </div></div>
Dude, his die is touching the shellholder, he could screw it down 15 turns and it still wont change anything.</div></div>
Bullshit. You need to get all the slop out of the press, and in some cases, they need a good cam over. Just touching does not get that last .002 in many cases. </div></div>
+1 Cam that fu$$er over, it'll size it. Just touching won't cut it without the Redding shellholders.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dont have the die down far enough in the press, I'm telling ya. Twist it down another 1/8 or 1/4 turn. It in no way hurts the press for it to cam over quite a bit...
The cases get longer just before they start getting shorter. </div></div>
Dude, his die is touching the shellholder, he could screw it down 15 turns and it still wont change anything.</div></div>
Bullshit. You need to get all the slop out of the press, and in some cases, they need a good cam over. Just touching does not get that last .002 in many cases. </div></div>
+1 Cam that fu$$er over, it'll size it. Just touching won't cut it without the Redding shellholders.
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
Random additional question.
If my once fired brass is used as a baseline for bumping back (i.e. I bump them .001-.002" from that measurement), how come I didn't have any problems chambering my previous rounds that were actually growing in full length resizing .003-.005". This is baffling me that I wasn't having any problems chambering these rounds. Is there really .003-.005" off spring back? Would this increase presuure and decrease accuracy?
Random additional question.
If my once fired brass is used as a baseline for bumping back (i.e. I bump them .001-.002" from that measurement), how come I didn't have any problems chambering my previous rounds that were actually growing in full length resizing .003-.005". This is baffling me that I wasn't having any problems chambering these rounds. Is there really .003-.005" off spring back? Would this increase presuure and decrease accuracy?
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
Too late. Its already been covered. Damn smart phone only loaded 1/2 the posts. I posted same as half the thread but didn't know it. LOL.
Too late. Its already been covered. Damn smart phone only loaded 1/2 the posts. I posted same as half the thread but didn't know it. LOL.
Re: Hornady headspace gauges?
I had the EXACT same problem with my Hornady 223 FL die. Didn't matter how far down I screwed the die, the distance from shell holder to the "shoulder bump" inside the die didn't change and it was too long to bump the shoulders of my brass.
I called Hornady- the tech said to remove 0.005" from the bottom of the die (he offered to do it free if I'd send him the die). A friend runs a machine shop locally- I had him remove 0.005" and it now bumps the shoulders perfectly.
I had the EXACT same problem with my Hornady 223 FL die. Didn't matter how far down I screwed the die, the distance from shell holder to the "shoulder bump" inside the die didn't change and it was too long to bump the shoulders of my brass.
I called Hornady- the tech said to remove 0.005" from the bottom of the die (he offered to do it free if I'd send him the die). A friend runs a machine shop locally- I had him remove 0.005" and it now bumps the shoulders perfectly.
