Just wondering if anyone here has shot this ammo from their AR platform rifles, specifically the 223? Are the steel cartridges coated like the other cheap stuff?
- Thread starter ms6852
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Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I've been wondering the same thing.
I've been wondering the same thing.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I just went through 50 rounds of the 75g "practice" ammo rather than the match and the steel cases are lacquered green.
I just went through 50 rounds of the 75g "practice" ammo rather than the match and the steel cases are lacquered green.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
So they are lacquered, guess it will melt and create jams. Thanks for the heads up. I fired the Hornady training ammo and easily got sub moa group at 100 yards with a 5 shot group on my predator pursuit by Rock River Arms. It was the 55 grain rounds, have not tried the heavier grains.
So they are lacquered, guess it will melt and create jams. Thanks for the heads up. I fired the Hornady training ammo and easily got sub moa group at 100 yards with a 5 shot group on my predator pursuit by Rock River Arms. It was the 55 grain rounds, have not tried the heavier grains.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I haven't tried the hornady myself but saw about 500 rounds used in a class awhile back. No melted laquer. Have you actually had that problem yourself with steel cased ammo or is it just something you have heard of? I've used several types of steel cased ammo over the years and haven't had that problem.
I haven't tried the hornady myself but saw about 500 rounds used in a class awhile back. No melted laquer. Have you actually had that problem yourself with steel cased ammo or is it just something you have heard of? I've used several types of steel cased ammo over the years and haven't had that problem.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/detailfe40.html?id=72&sID=94
Berdan primed and lacquer coated. I'll have to see if it's available locally and try some out.
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/detailfe40.html?id=72&sID=94
Berdan primed and lacquer coated. I'll have to see if it's available locally and try some out.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I use the 75grn training ammo in 3 gun matches in my POF and never had any troubles even when the rifle gets really hot. It's very accurate. It uses the same bullet and powder as the TAP rounds but cost is kept down due to the steel cases.
Try some out. You won't be upset with the performance.
I use the 75grn training ammo in 3 gun matches in my POF and never had any troubles even when the rifle gets really hot. It's very accurate. It uses the same bullet and powder as the TAP rounds but cost is kept down due to the steel cases.
Try some out. You won't be upset with the performance.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
Great question by Kujo: Has anyone had direct experience with melted laquer related FTE? Not "I have a cousin who knows a guy..." stories but actual direct experience? I have also heard stories of this and, honestly, have avoided steel cased ammo because of them. It didn't hurt that I was getting ammo from the GOV of course but now that ammo is at a premium I am taking a second look. No disrespect, at all, to the comment above but I am looking for an opinion from someone who doesn't have the company in questions logo in their signature line. Again, not poking you in the eye, just looking for an unbiased opinion.
Great question by Kujo: Has anyone had direct experience with melted laquer related FTE? Not "I have a cousin who knows a guy..." stories but actual direct experience? I have also heard stories of this and, honestly, have avoided steel cased ammo because of them. It didn't hurt that I was getting ammo from the GOV of course but now that ammo is at a premium I am taking a second look. No disrespect, at all, to the comment above but I am looking for an opinion from someone who doesn't have the company in questions logo in their signature line. Again, not poking you in the eye, just looking for an unbiased opinion.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
Like I posted in the other steel cased thread, I shot thousands of rounds of Wolf through my old AR without any trouble. That was when it was $89/1000. No problems. Never shot for Wolf so maybe you can take that experience as unbiased even though the other is as well.
Like I posted in the other steel cased thread, I shot thousands of rounds of Wolf through my old AR without any trouble. That was when it was $89/1000. No problems. Never shot for Wolf so maybe you can take that experience as unbiased even though the other is as well.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I to have shot many rounds of steel cased laquer coat ammo with no issues. For the most part most steel cased ammo is now not coated with laquer but a polymer base coating. If you look at the older stuff the cases are a dark color and the newer stuff is more like bear metal (in the white).
I to have shot many rounds of steel cased laquer coat ammo with no issues. For the most part most steel cased ammo is now not coated with laquer but a polymer base coating. If you look at the older stuff the cases are a dark color and the newer stuff is more like bear metal (in the white).
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I've put a box and a half through my AR with no issues. Accuracy seems to be good but I don't have much time behind the rifle to say if it's the barrel or ammo.
I've put a box and a half through my AR with no issues. Accuracy seems to be good but I don't have much time behind the rifle to say if it's the barrel or ammo.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I've shot about 200 rds of steel cased ammo with 2-3 FTE. Probably 140 TulAmmo and 60 Wolf if I had to guess. I also did speed tests burning through mags and was pushing my RRA Elite Operator 2 at the time.
Couldn't say whether or not it was any kind of melted coating but when I cleaned the bolt and chamber, there was no excessive build up.
I've shot about 200 rds of steel cased ammo with 2-3 FTE. Probably 140 TulAmmo and 60 Wolf if I had to guess. I also did speed tests burning through mags and was pushing my RRA Elite Operator 2 at the time.
Couldn't say whether or not it was any kind of melted coating but when I cleaned the bolt and chamber, there was no excessive build up.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
i've used this ammo out to 500 yards in mine, it's good stuff, some people don't like the steel cases, but i have a spare extractor on hand
i've used this ammo out to 500 yards in mine, it's good stuff, some people don't like the steel cases, but i have a spare extractor on hand
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Imurhuckleberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000">So they are lacquered, guess it will melt and create jams.</span> Thanks for the heads up. I fired the Hornady training ammo and easily got sub moa group at 100 yards with a 5 shot group on my predator pursuit by Rock River Arms. It was the 55 grain rounds, have not tried the heavier grains. </div></div>
why do you and others insist on perpetuating this myth?
The Russians have been using steel cased ammo since before WWII.
The US used some steel cased ammo in WII also.
The lacquer doesn't fucking melt.
Show me one documented instance of the shit melting. It does not happen.
What steel cases do NOT do is expand to seal the chamber, allowing carbon buildup in the chamber. when brass cased ammo is fired afterwards (without cleaning the chamber) the brass case gets stuck.
Oh, and the world isn't flat either.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Imurhuckleberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000">So they are lacquered, guess it will melt and create jams.</span> Thanks for the heads up. I fired the Hornady training ammo and easily got sub moa group at 100 yards with a 5 shot group on my predator pursuit by Rock River Arms. It was the 55 grain rounds, have not tried the heavier grains. </div></div>
why do you and others insist on perpetuating this myth?
The Russians have been using steel cased ammo since before WWII.
The US used some steel cased ammo in WII also.
The lacquer doesn't fucking melt.
Show me one documented instance of the shit melting. It does not happen.
What steel cases do NOT do is expand to seal the chamber, allowing carbon buildup in the chamber. when brass cased ammo is fired afterwards (without cleaning the chamber) the brass case gets stuck.
Oh, and the world isn't flat either.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
It is not only the carbon. The steel is not as elastic as brass. It sweels when fired, but does not contract back. So it is jammed to the chamber. Just the nature of the steel case ammo.I have been telling this to everyone since the steel cased ammo from russia arrived here. No one wants to listen. If your gun shots it, good for you. If not, don't use it.
It is not only the carbon. The steel is not as elastic as brass. It sweels when fired, but does not contract back. So it is jammed to the chamber. Just the nature of the steel case ammo.I have been telling this to everyone since the steel cased ammo from russia arrived here. No one wants to listen. If your gun shots it, good for you. If not, don't use it.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I picked up a box of 55 grn steel match and a box of 75 grn. I've only got 1/9 twist...soo not expecting much stabilization of the 75. I was more curious of the 75 gr's penetration capabilities as a cheap HD round and plan on just blasting a few jugs after some accuracy tests. I figure the 55 gr will shoot much better with my twist and am interested to see how it compares to te fantastic 53 gr superperformance cartridge that i've been getting sub moa groups from. I'll post some pictures of targets and jugs once i get the chance to shoot.
I picked up a box of 55 grn steel match and a box of 75 grn. I've only got 1/9 twist...soo not expecting much stabilization of the 75. I was more curious of the 75 gr's penetration capabilities as a cheap HD round and plan on just blasting a few jugs after some accuracy tests. I figure the 55 gr will shoot much better with my twist and am interested to see how it compares to te fantastic 53 gr superperformance cartridge that i've been getting sub moa groups from. I'll post some pictures of targets and jugs once i get the chance to shoot.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomme boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is not only the carbon. The steel is not as elastic as brass. It sweels when fired, but does not contract back. So it is jammed to the chamber. Just the nature of the steel case ammo.I have been telling this to everyone since the steel cased ammo from russia arrived here. No one wants to listen. If your gun shots it, good for you. If not, don't use it. </div></div>
Close, but not quite. It's when you shoot brass after shooting steel (due to steel not expanding and allowing carbon into the chamber) that you can get a stuck case. Brass expands, and with extra carbon in the chamber = stuck case.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomme boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is not only the carbon. The steel is not as elastic as brass. It sweels when fired, but does not contract back. So it is jammed to the chamber. Just the nature of the steel case ammo.I have been telling this to everyone since the steel cased ammo from russia arrived here. No one wants to listen. If your gun shots it, good for you. If not, don't use it. </div></div>
Close, but not quite. It's when you shoot brass after shooting steel (due to steel not expanding and allowing carbon into the chamber) that you can get a stuck case. Brass expands, and with extra carbon in the chamber = stuck case.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
See this:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm
Good write-up on shooting steel.
See this:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm
Good write-up on shooting steel.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I must say that my comment was premature about melted lacquer and was purely based on hearsay. My error came in trusting of the club members who owned AR's and mentioned there problems with FTE's. I did do some further research and found what I considered a reasonable reason as to why some platforms have trouble with some steel ammo.
In simple terms the reason had to deal with the fact the steel cartridge is a little stiffer than brass and would not fully expand in the chamber causing some gas to escape around the cartridge causing gas blow by. Another example had to deal with the particular rifles being over gassed.
I did wonder why companies could stay in business if the coating would be such an issue. Anyway I bought a box of Hornady steel match ammo and will give a range report later.
I must say that my comment was premature about melted lacquer and was purely based on hearsay. My error came in trusting of the club members who owned AR's and mentioned there problems with FTE's. I did do some further research and found what I considered a reasonable reason as to why some platforms have trouble with some steel ammo.
In simple terms the reason had to deal with the fact the steel cartridge is a little stiffer than brass and would not fully expand in the chamber causing some gas to escape around the cartridge causing gas blow by. Another example had to deal with the particular rifles being over gassed.
I did wonder why companies could stay in business if the coating would be such an issue. Anyway I bought a box of Hornady steel match ammo and will give a range report later.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
Perf. Match is coated. AK stuff Not coated- sort of bizarre. If you sweat on it, or are in a humid wet environment it gets surface rust like a MOFO real fast.
Perf. Match is coated. AK stuff Not coated- sort of bizarre. If you sweat on it, or are in a humid wet environment it gets surface rust like a MOFO real fast.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rchman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomme boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is not only the carbon. The steel is not as elastic as brass. It sweels when fired, but does not contract back. So it is jammed to the chamber. Just the nature of the steel case ammo.I have been telling this to everyone since the steel cased ammo from russia arrived here. No one wants to listen. If your gun shots it, good for you. If not, don't use it. </div></div>
Close, but not quite. It's when you shoot brass after shooting steel (due to steel not expanding and allowing carbon into the chamber) that you can get a stuck case. Brass expands, and with extra carbon in the chamber = stuck case. </div></div>
You are wrong. I have seen AR's brand new lock on the first shell fired. It was a steel case. And not with just one rifle but several. The steel expands just fine. Just slower than the brass. That is were the carbon comes from. If it did not expand how is it stuck? What everyone here also is over looking is the port pressure. If the port PSI is too high, the timing is off and it will rip the rim off. This is usually from too slow of powder or over preasure. The case is still at high preasure and is still expanded when the bullet passes the port hole. This will cause the bolt to unlock at too high of preasure and rip the rim off.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rchman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomme boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is not only the carbon. The steel is not as elastic as brass. It sweels when fired, but does not contract back. So it is jammed to the chamber. Just the nature of the steel case ammo.I have been telling this to everyone since the steel cased ammo from russia arrived here. No one wants to listen. If your gun shots it, good for you. If not, don't use it. </div></div>
Close, but not quite. It's when you shoot brass after shooting steel (due to steel not expanding and allowing carbon into the chamber) that you can get a stuck case. Brass expands, and with extra carbon in the chamber = stuck case. </div></div>
You are wrong. I have seen AR's brand new lock on the first shell fired. It was a steel case. And not with just one rifle but several. The steel expands just fine. Just slower than the brass. That is were the carbon comes from. If it did not expand how is it stuck? What everyone here also is over looking is the port pressure. If the port PSI is too high, the timing is off and it will rip the rim off. This is usually from too slow of powder or over preasure. The case is still at high preasure and is still expanded when the bullet passes the port hole. This will cause the bolt to unlock at too high of preasure and rip the rim off.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
Here is a great link from the box of truth with a great explanation about steel ammo. Some one else forwarded this link to me.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm
Here is a great link from the box of truth with a great explanation about steel ammo. Some one else forwarded this link to me.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomme boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rchman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomme boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is not only the carbon. The steel is not as elastic as brass. It sweels when fired, but does not contract back. So it is jammed to the chamber. Just the nature of the steel case ammo.I have been telling this to everyone since the steel cased ammo from russia arrived here. No one wants to listen. If your gun shots it, good for you. If not, don't use it. </div></div>
Close, but not quite. It's when you shoot brass after shooting steel (due to steel not expanding and allowing carbon into the chamber) that you can get a stuck case. Brass expands, and with extra carbon in the chamber = stuck case. </div></div>
You are wrong. I have seen AR's brand new lock on the first shell fired. It was a steel case. And not with just one rifle but several. The steel expands just fine. Just slower than the brass. That is were the carbon comes from. If it did not expand how is it stuck? What everyone here also is over looking is the port pressure. If the port PSI is too high, the timing is off and it will rip the rim off. This is usually from too slow of powder or over preasure. The case is still at high preasure and is still expanded when the bullet passes the port hole. This will cause the bolt to unlock at too high of preasure and rip the rim off. </div></div>
Ripping the rim off would be correct.
Can these supposed rifles that jam on first round dry cycle steel cased ammo (without firing)? I'm thinking there is a bigger problem with a rifle if somehow the carbon buildup from ONE round would jam it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomme boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rchman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tomme boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is not only the carbon. The steel is not as elastic as brass. It sweels when fired, but does not contract back. So it is jammed to the chamber. Just the nature of the steel case ammo.I have been telling this to everyone since the steel cased ammo from russia arrived here. No one wants to listen. If your gun shots it, good for you. If not, don't use it. </div></div>
Close, but not quite. It's when you shoot brass after shooting steel (due to steel not expanding and allowing carbon into the chamber) that you can get a stuck case. Brass expands, and with extra carbon in the chamber = stuck case. </div></div>
You are wrong. I have seen AR's brand new lock on the first shell fired. It was a steel case. And not with just one rifle but several. The steel expands just fine. Just slower than the brass. That is were the carbon comes from. If it did not expand how is it stuck? What everyone here also is over looking is the port pressure. If the port PSI is too high, the timing is off and it will rip the rim off. This is usually from too slow of powder or over preasure. The case is still at high preasure and is still expanded when the bullet passes the port hole. This will cause the bolt to unlock at too high of preasure and rip the rim off. </div></div>
Ripping the rim off would be correct.
Can these supposed rifles that jam on first round dry cycle steel cased ammo (without firing)? I'm thinking there is a bigger problem with a rifle if somehow the carbon buildup from ONE round would jam it.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
Where are you guys buying this stuff?
Where are you guys buying this stuff?
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CCCCanuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where are you guys buying this stuff? </div></div>
Ammunitiontogo has it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CCCCanuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where are you guys buying this stuff? </div></div>
Ammunitiontogo has it.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I've had no problems with Hornady TAP 223 75gr Training (9760EL) in my POF. I recently ran through 150 rounds fairly quickly, no FTE, relatively good accuracy. I have found that although it is slower, it is a decent training round for the 5.56 75gr T2 (8126N).
I read that the Training rounds are cheaper due to use of steel cases and because the bullets are seconds. Comparing the T2 to the Training, you can see that the Training bullets have imperfections....linear fold is visible, minor dings, etc.
GandRTactical has some available
I've had no problems with Hornady TAP 223 75gr Training (9760EL) in my POF. I recently ran through 150 rounds fairly quickly, no FTE, relatively good accuracy. I have found that although it is slower, it is a decent training round for the 5.56 75gr T2 (8126N).
I read that the Training rounds are cheaper due to use of steel cases and because the bullets are seconds. Comparing the T2 to the Training, you can see that the Training bullets have imperfections....linear fold is visible, minor dings, etc.
GandRTactical has some available
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
These sorts of threads are all over the internet.
What I don't understand is the proposition that shooting steel cased ammo leaved carbon in the chamber that will lead to a case getting stuck.
I have a hard time buying this because there is going to be carbon build up in the chamber regardless of the type of ammunition that you use. That is to say that if you shoot "X" number of rounds of steel cased ammo through your rifle, there will be a carbon build up that will lead to a stuck case. If this is true, then at some point, you should have the same problem with brass cased ammo to.
My AR has over 5000 rounds through it, since it was last cleaned. I've shot a mix of steel cased ammo, M193 and handloads through it and have never had any problems.
I believe that all extraction related problems can be traced back to a timing issue. The more your rifle is over gassed, the more quickly you'll have a problem. This is, of course, just a belief.
I wonder how many guys that are running 14.5" barrels with mid length gas systems are having problems (other than short stroking) with steel cased ammo. For that matter, 16" middies.
These sorts of threads are all over the internet.
What I don't understand is the proposition that shooting steel cased ammo leaved carbon in the chamber that will lead to a case getting stuck.
I have a hard time buying this because there is going to be carbon build up in the chamber regardless of the type of ammunition that you use. That is to say that if you shoot "X" number of rounds of steel cased ammo through your rifle, there will be a carbon build up that will lead to a stuck case. If this is true, then at some point, you should have the same problem with brass cased ammo to.
My AR has over 5000 rounds through it, since it was last cleaned. I've shot a mix of steel cased ammo, M193 and handloads through it and have never had any problems.
I believe that all extraction related problems can be traced back to a timing issue. The more your rifle is over gassed, the more quickly you'll have a problem. This is, of course, just a belief.
I wonder how many guys that are running 14.5" barrels with mid length gas systems are having problems (other than short stroking) with steel cased ammo. For that matter, 16" middies.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I just bought another 1k of 55g and 75g Hornady steel practice
no issues with it and it's accurate
I just bought another 1k of 55g and 75g Hornady steel practice
no issues with it and it's accurate
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I have run around 300 rds of the 75gr training ammo through my SPR clone built with a WOA 1:7 barrel. Pretty sure its a 223 chamber instead of 556 and I can't see any markings on the barrel right now to verify. Have had no issues, actually it been some of the better shooting stuff aside from Fed GMM 77gr. No failures, no grit, carbon nothing, although I am pretty anal about cleaning after range session. For me the accuracy limitation was not the ammo, but operator head gap. 1 MOA @ 100yds was doable without trying hard.
I have run around 300 rds of the 75gr training ammo through my SPR clone built with a WOA 1:7 barrel. Pretty sure its a 223 chamber instead of 556 and I can't see any markings on the barrel right now to verify. Have had no issues, actually it been some of the better shooting stuff aside from Fed GMM 77gr. No failures, no grit, carbon nothing, although I am pretty anal about cleaning after range session. For me the accuracy limitation was not the ammo, but operator head gap. 1 MOA @ 100yds was doable without trying hard.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TAZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have run around 300 rds of the 75gr training ammo through my SPR clone built with a WOA 1:7 barrel. Pretty sure its a 223 chamber instead of 556 and I can't see any markings on the barrel right now to verify. Have had no issues, actually it been some of the better shooting stuff aside from Fed GMM 77gr. No failures, no grit, carbon nothing, although I am pretty anal about cleaning after range session. For me the accuracy limitation was not the ammo, but operator head gap. 1 MOA @ 100yds was doable without trying hard. </div></div>
+1.. I'm mostly thru my second batch of 500 Hornady 75gr steel match with no problems. It seems to perform as well as brass cased ammo and It's a lot cheaper. Going back and forth between Black Hills 77gr and the Hornady steel match 75gr is uneventful in my Krieger .223, 1/7.7, 22" barrel and the poi shift is close enough to leave the scope alone out to 300yds. So what's the big deal? If there were some dark underlying problem, It seems unlikely that Hornady would put their name on it. If I'm having a good day, it will shoot sub .5 moa.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TAZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have run around 300 rds of the 75gr training ammo through my SPR clone built with a WOA 1:7 barrel. Pretty sure its a 223 chamber instead of 556 and I can't see any markings on the barrel right now to verify. Have had no issues, actually it been some of the better shooting stuff aside from Fed GMM 77gr. No failures, no grit, carbon nothing, although I am pretty anal about cleaning after range session. For me the accuracy limitation was not the ammo, but operator head gap. 1 MOA @ 100yds was doable without trying hard. </div></div>
+1.. I'm mostly thru my second batch of 500 Hornady 75gr steel match with no problems. It seems to perform as well as brass cased ammo and It's a lot cheaper. Going back and forth between Black Hills 77gr and the Hornady steel match 75gr is uneventful in my Krieger .223, 1/7.7, 22" barrel and the poi shift is close enough to leave the scope alone out to 300yds. So what's the big deal? If there were some dark underlying problem, It seems unlikely that Hornady would put their name on it. If I'm having a good day, it will shoot sub .5 moa.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.a
I shot the 75 practice this morning
With a 16" Wilson Combat 5.56 1 in 7 twist I had no problem doing 5"x5" headshots at 250 and 12" plates at 500. Scope was a VXR Patrol 1.25-4.
I shot the 75 practice this morning
With a 16" Wilson Combat 5.56 1 in 7 twist I had no problem doing 5"x5" headshots at 250 and 12" plates at 500. Scope was a VXR Patrol 1.25-4.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TAZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have run around 300 rds of the 75gr training ammo through my SPR clone built with a WOA 1:7 barrel. Pretty sure its a 223 chamber instead of 556 and I can't see any markings on the barrel right now to verify. Have had no issues, actually it been some of the better shooting stuff aside from Fed GMM 77gr. No failures, no grit, carbon nothing, although I am pretty anal about cleaning after range session. For me the accuracy limitation was not the ammo, but operator head gap. 1 MOA @ 100yds was doable without trying hard. </div></div>
If you can shoot USGI M193 or NATO M855 type ammo without getting pressure signs, your chamber (really the throat or leade) is 5.56, not SAAMI .223.
Though I remain somewhat skeptical that this widely-cited but somehow infrequent problem is solely the fault of the ammo, there remains the inescapable fact that the mild steel of this type of ammo is harder and less elastic and slightly less "springy" than brass cases.
I'm pretty sure that high-speed photography would show a larger gas puff from the chamber with steel case ammo than with brass cased. They both do it, but the question is how much and how many rounds is enough to grab a brass case...which expands more and tightly seals the chamber more to the rear than steel, at least in my experience.
And the 5.56/.223 in my strong opinion is under-designed on the extractor rim anyway. If I could wave a magic wand, I'd have made a mid-stream design change like what happened to .300 Whisper/Blackout, with the rim getting twice as thick back when the M855 was adopted. An extractor changeout on existing M16A1s would have been all that would be needed, to allow "emergency" use of keyholing ammo...and I've seen some pretty sloppy extractors fitting that loose that worked just fine (as far as old stocks of M193 would go).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TAZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have run around 300 rds of the 75gr training ammo through my SPR clone built with a WOA 1:7 barrel. Pretty sure its a 223 chamber instead of 556 and I can't see any markings on the barrel right now to verify. Have had no issues, actually it been some of the better shooting stuff aside from Fed GMM 77gr. No failures, no grit, carbon nothing, although I am pretty anal about cleaning after range session. For me the accuracy limitation was not the ammo, but operator head gap. 1 MOA @ 100yds was doable without trying hard. </div></div>
If you can shoot USGI M193 or NATO M855 type ammo without getting pressure signs, your chamber (really the throat or leade) is 5.56, not SAAMI .223.
Though I remain somewhat skeptical that this widely-cited but somehow infrequent problem is solely the fault of the ammo, there remains the inescapable fact that the mild steel of this type of ammo is harder and less elastic and slightly less "springy" than brass cases.
I'm pretty sure that high-speed photography would show a larger gas puff from the chamber with steel case ammo than with brass cased. They both do it, but the question is how much and how many rounds is enough to grab a brass case...which expands more and tightly seals the chamber more to the rear than steel, at least in my experience.
And the 5.56/.223 in my strong opinion is under-designed on the extractor rim anyway. If I could wave a magic wand, I'd have made a mid-stream design change like what happened to .300 Whisper/Blackout, with the rim getting twice as thick back when the M855 was adopted. An extractor changeout on existing M16A1s would have been all that would be needed, to allow "emergency" use of keyholing ammo...and I've seen some pretty sloppy extractors fitting that loose that worked just fine (as far as old stocks of M193 would go).
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I'm just wondering about what kind of accuracy shooters have gotten and how the 75gr works in 1/9 twist barrels.
I've been shooting the steel russian ammo for plinking for years in ARs, AKs, and Minis. Never had any reliability problems. The accuracy just sucks and they dirty up guns pretty bad.
Would like to hear more impressions of the Hornady performance on target and less of the steel/brass debate.
Brass is better, but steel is much cheaper and seems to work.
I'm just wondering about what kind of accuracy shooters have gotten and how the 75gr works in 1/9 twist barrels.
I've been shooting the steel russian ammo for plinking for years in ARs, AKs, and Minis. Never had any reliability problems. The accuracy just sucks and they dirty up guns pretty bad.
Would like to hear more impressions of the Hornady performance on target and less of the steel/brass debate.
Brass is better, but steel is much cheaper and seems to work.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
Sam I never shot it out of a bolt gun but with a 4x optic on my POF it was shooting sub MOA at 100 yards. I was pleasently surprised to say the least.
Not sure about the 75grn in a 9 twist though. I have an 8 twist and it shoots great. You might have to just try it and see.
Sam I never shot it out of a bolt gun but with a 4x optic on my POF it was shooting sub MOA at 100 yards. I was pleasently surprised to say the least.
Not sure about the 75grn in a 9 twist though. I have an 8 twist and it shoots great. You might have to just try it and see.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I have shot, and oversaw the shooting of, several thousand rounds of 55 grain Hornady steel cased training rounds and have never seen them cause a stoppage. Inside of 100 yards, the 55 grain and 75 grain shoot close enough that we use the 55 grain, even though our duty loads are 75 grain.
I shoot them out of my personally owned Noveske with SS barrel, I know, blasphemy. To win a bet once, I shot them out of the 9" barreled SIG 552, 4 of 5 on the face of a target at lasered 200 yards, with a 4moa Aimpoint (5th round just missed the ear left). I know people that have shot them in 3 day carbine classes (1200 - 1400 rounds) without any issues, and they got their rifles hot, I guarantee it.
I would rather buy more Hornady steel case, rather then fewer brass case for the same money, for training purposes.
I have shot, and oversaw the shooting of, several thousand rounds of 55 grain Hornady steel cased training rounds and have never seen them cause a stoppage. Inside of 100 yards, the 55 grain and 75 grain shoot close enough that we use the 55 grain, even though our duty loads are 75 grain.
I shoot them out of my personally owned Noveske with SS barrel, I know, blasphemy. To win a bet once, I shot them out of the 9" barreled SIG 552, 4 of 5 on the face of a target at lasered 200 yards, with a 4moa Aimpoint (5th round just missed the ear left). I know people that have shot them in 3 day carbine classes (1200 - 1400 rounds) without any issues, and they got their rifles hot, I guarantee it.
I would rather buy more Hornady steel case, rather then fewer brass case for the same money, for training purposes.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
Ive shot the 55gr through a 1/8 twist with a little over 1moa accuracy, it fed and extracted flawlessly. Its good ammo in my opinion
Ive shot the 55gr through a 1/8 twist with a little over 1moa accuracy, it fed and extracted flawlessly. Its good ammo in my opinion
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
Many moons ago Wolf looked like they applied the lacquer with a paint brush. Big drips on the cases in many lots. I had it jam up a Colt CL 16" Hbar clean or not, but it ran flawless in my gAyK SAR 3 (.223). That was my experiance with quite a few thousand round cases.
I would bet Hornaday's manufacturing process is superior by factors and from the pictures and the above statements that it wont have the same problem. Im going to get some and try it out.
Many moons ago Wolf looked like they applied the lacquer with a paint brush. Big drips on the cases in many lots. I had it jam up a Colt CL 16" Hbar clean or not, but it ran flawless in my gAyK SAR 3 (.223). That was my experiance with quite a few thousand round cases.
I would bet Hornaday's manufacturing process is superior by factors and from the pictures and the above statements that it wont have the same problem. Im going to get some and try it out.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I would highly recommend it for practice ammo if you plan on shooting match ammo during matches. If not you could always shoot this in matches like I do....
I would highly recommend it for practice ammo if you plan on shooting match ammo during matches. If not you could always shoot this in matches like I do....
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
Huckleberry,
I was recently debating whether or not to put any steel cased ammo (not just Hornady) through my m4 and started this thread on the hide: Sniper's Hide Putting Steel Cased Ammo through nice ARs
I got a lot of awesome information and feedback from folks, and not too much of the "oh well I heard that's bad so don't do it" kind of stuff. So if you want to research more, check out the entirety of this thread.
My biggest concerns --lacquer build up in the weapon, and damage from the steel being rougher than the brass-- was answered and basically the verdict I took away was "By all means, go ahead and shoot steel cased because the lacquer is actually polymer and doesn’t get left behind, it just might run a little dirtier by way of being dirtier ammo and steel not expanding like brass does, and the steel case won’t hurt anything except maybe the extractor after tens of thousands of rounds—at which point you’ve saved enough money to buy a new rifle anyways."
So I decided to ahead with steel cased ammo and bought 1,000 rounds of steel cased Tulammo .223 75 grain. I’ve gone through 500 rounds in 2 days – at Jason Falla’s 2 day tactical pistol/carbine this past weekend which was incredible by the way- and I didn’t get a single failure to fire, failure to extract, failure to feed, failure to anything blah blah blah. And the stuff was dead on accurate as well. So the only downside with this stuff as far as I’m concerned is that you can’t reload it. I love it and I’m gonna continue saving money using it.
Huckleberry,
I was recently debating whether or not to put any steel cased ammo (not just Hornady) through my m4 and started this thread on the hide: Sniper's Hide Putting Steel Cased Ammo through nice ARs
I got a lot of awesome information and feedback from folks, and not too much of the "oh well I heard that's bad so don't do it" kind of stuff. So if you want to research more, check out the entirety of this thread.
My biggest concerns --lacquer build up in the weapon, and damage from the steel being rougher than the brass-- was answered and basically the verdict I took away was "By all means, go ahead and shoot steel cased because the lacquer is actually polymer and doesn’t get left behind, it just might run a little dirtier by way of being dirtier ammo and steel not expanding like brass does, and the steel case won’t hurt anything except maybe the extractor after tens of thousands of rounds—at which point you’ve saved enough money to buy a new rifle anyways."
So I decided to ahead with steel cased ammo and bought 1,000 rounds of steel cased Tulammo .223 75 grain. I’ve gone through 500 rounds in 2 days – at Jason Falla’s 2 day tactical pistol/carbine this past weekend which was incredible by the way- and I didn’t get a single failure to fire, failure to extract, failure to feed, failure to anything blah blah blah. And the stuff was dead on accurate as well. So the only downside with this stuff as far as I’m concerned is that you can’t reload it. I love it and I’m gonna continue saving money using it.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
Where are people picking this up at? I got some for $17/ 50 rnd box at a local gunshow, but can't seem to find anything in that range again.
Where are people picking this up at? I got some for $17/ 50 rnd box at a local gunshow, but can't seem to find anything in that range again.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I just ordered some 55gr and 75 gr hornady practice I'll give it a shot. Also to compare I got some 77 gr SMK from south west ammo. Trying out 77 gr in my new Daniel defense. I should be able show some accuracy results later next week. When or if I can figure out how to post pics.
I just ordered some 55gr and 75 gr hornady practice I'll give it a shot. Also to compare I got some 77 gr SMK from south west ammo. Trying out 77 gr in my new Daniel defense. I should be able show some accuracy results later next week. When or if I can figure out how to post pics.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
I took some of the 75gr Practice ammo out yesterday, and wasn't very impressed. Groups were close to 2MOA. Meanwhile, PRVI 69gr was sub-MOA (although my brother eeked out a .5" 5 shot group somehow) and 75gr FGMM was sub 3/4 MOA.
I took some of the 75gr Practice ammo out yesterday, and wasn't very impressed. Groups were close to 2MOA. Meanwhile, PRVI 69gr was sub-MOA (although my brother eeked out a .5" 5 shot group somehow) and 75gr FGMM was sub 3/4 MOA.
Re: Hornady steel match ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rchman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where are people picking this up at? I got some for $17/ 50 rnd box at a local gunshow, but can't seem to find anything in that range again. </div></div>
Just a few of the mail order places that have it.
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/
http://www.sportsmansguide.com
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rchman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where are people picking this up at? I got some for $17/ 50 rnd box at a local gunshow, but can't seem to find anything in that range again. </div></div>
Just a few of the mail order places that have it.
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/
http://www.sportsmansguide.com
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com
