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How accurate is your rifle at 100 yards

Codiekfx400

Codiekfx400

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Jan 29, 2018
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I have multiple rifles of various quality and all of them seem to be in that 1/2 to 1 moa range for accuracy. So the question is am I a bad shot, are my rifles inferior, or do I test differently than everyone else. Seems like everyone nowadays has a sub 1/2 moa rifle all day long and that’s great but I am not seeing it. I shoot 10 round groups (thinking this is the difference). If I would shoot five 3 round groups and pick the best one I would have all sub 1/2” rifles. So with all that rambling the question is what are you guys seeing for accuracy. The picture attached is a example of a 10 shot group shot from my ar it is just a example as to what I see. Sometimes I see better than that sometimes worse than that. Please disregard the three bullet holes by the number 2 in the top left of picture.
7AB6889C-470F-47B9-920E-28D74F4FE64E.jpeg
 
If I had a 10 shot group like yours most likely I would attribute the nine shots to the rifle and the one to either the shooter or the bullet. Not all bullets are perfect, nor is all loaded ammo.
 
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This is a 10 shot group fired with my dad's 30-06 700BDL. It's from the 80s, and still has the trigger/safety issues that plagued those rifles, I'm leery of sending it for repair because this rifle shoots so well for me just like it is.
Those 125TNT bullets work great in the Garand too!

 
I have two factory barreled action rifles that will shoot .5" MOA, everything else on the rifles has pretty much been upgraded. Sometimes I get better than .5" five shot groups but that is no reason to claim its a .3-.4 MOA rifle.
This is also done with meticulously loaded ammo and hand selected components and shot from a bench.

IMHO a true .5" MOA rifle should be able to do this with quality factory match ammo and a competent shooter ofcoarse and better with quality handloads consistently.

One of the rifles I mentioned I have shot two sub .5" groups at 200 yards with factory Nosler Custom ammo but I wouldnt put money on it being able to do that consistently compared to a custom built rifle.
 
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I like how some people completely miss the x but have a nice group so it’s a .5 moa rifle. I don’t throw many groups, really don’t see the point other than testing something.

Now if you can shoot 1/2” dots with one shot each all 10 rounds.. I would say you definitely have a .5 rifle :cool:
 
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I shoot 3x 5 round groups counting only the best 4 of each group. The average of the 3 groups (counting 4 of 5) is what I consider my rifle to shoot. My own standard.
 
If my factory rifle groups around 1MOA with factory ammunition, I am very happy. If it does it with a handload that shoots better in another one of my factory rifles, I'll do some load development to see if that will help. If the development gets the groups down to 1/2MOA, I'm done developing, and also pretty ecstatic, because I don't really get to see that from my factory rifles hardly at all.

If the factory rifle has a 1/2MOA liking for a factory load, I buy a bunch of it because while I shoot a lot of handloads, I consider handloading to be a chore, a necessary evil; and I can afford to buy instead of load if I get a good balance between cost and performance. My time is worth more to me than my money at my age.

So why all the talk of factory rifles? Well, because although I do have a very nice custom, factory rifles have come a long way, and they pretty much had their revolution just in time for me to get the benefit of it right about the time I started setting up my little stable of fun rifles.

Greg
 
There is no standard (other than your own). I see lots of very fine rifle makers saying 1/2-1/3 MOA on a three or five shot group. Fine, still means next to nothing. I can get a .5 MOA 3 shot group with my .30-06 A-Bolt if you give me 200 rounds and all day at the range. Anyone who's had AP or college statistics understands statistical insignificance. Even a barrel burner cartridge will give you 2000-2500 shots.

I don't consider any group under 20 holes to mean anything, and it's better to have 30. I claim several of my rifles will shoot under a minute, and are good to go for competition or long range whacking. Out of those 30 holes maybe 15-20 shots are on-top of each other. 1/4 MOA? I think not. Murphy dictates it's going to be the fliers that exit the barrel when it's at an elk @ 600 yds or you're shooting for score.

If you look at Litz's WEZ it's pretty clear how little these handful of shots @ 100yds means.

The claim isn't that at a certain time I can cherry pick a .5 moa group, it's that "My rifle shoots .5 MOA." Really? So I can put it in a bench rest on a dead calm day and shoot it out to 800 yds, and it'll land in a land on a 4" target every time? That is quite impressive. I'm certainly not saying there aren't rifles this precise, but I am saying everyone posting about it on the internet doesn't have one, and I don't care if it an AI, Surgeon, or other $5K+ built rifle.

Physics in an uncompromising bitch.

Tell me how your rifle shoots almost as good as the best, purpose-built, benchrest rifles in the hands of the best benchrest marksmen in the world.

World Benchrest Records

Last I checked the guys really into this tiny group thing posted on a different site, and a bunch of the guys on the above list post there regularly...

Their rifles are a leetle tighter than ours. They're not worried about stabilizing a bullet past 1000 yds either. They don't worry about getting dust or grit in their actions/triggers. They don't worry about cycling from a magazine, or getting wet, or hot or judging wind without flags, or really anything we deal with in the more practical shooting sports/professions...

The whole 3/4-1/2-1/3-1/4 thing is ridiculous IMHO, unless you're playing their game, which is very different. Just my $.02.
 
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XLR308 said:
I have two factory barreled action rifles that will shoot .5" MOA, everything else on the rifles has pretty much been upgraded. Sometimes I get better than .5" five shot groups but that is no reason to claim its a .3-.4 MOA rifle.
This is also done with meticulously loaded ammo and hand selected components and shot from a bench.

IMHO a true .5" MOA rifle should be able to do this with quality factory match ammo and a competent shooter ofcoarse and better with quality handloads consistently.

One of the rifles I mentioned I have shot two sub .5" groups at 200 yards with factory Nosler Custom ammo but I wouldnt put money on it being able to do that consistently compared to a custom built rifle.
Click to expand...

An Accuracy International AW/AX/AXMC rifle with Lapua factory ammunition (of the bullet weight the barrel likes), tend to shoot exceptionally well.
 
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W54/XM-388 said:
An Accuracy International AW/AX/AXMC rifle with Lapua factory ammunition (of the bullet weight the barrel likes), tend to shoot exceptionally well.
Click to expand...

I have no doubts about that but consider the factory AI rifles anything but factory. They are great rifles and great performers but they damn well better be for the price.

I was referring to the more common rifles encountered like the m700 SPS varmint and savage 10/110 They can be very accurate but finicky. I have owned both and both shoot well with the right massaging and handloads but wouldnt put them in the same classification as an AI or Sako TRG or similar, they are just not as refined and the price reflects it.

But if AI comes out with a rifle under $600 that shoots as well or better than the two I mentioned I will eat my words.
 
XLR308 said:
But if AI comes out with a rifle under $600 that shoots as well or better than the two I mentioned I will eat my words.
Click to expand...

How about shoot for an AI barrel that AI sells new under $600... That probably won't happen
 
XLR308 said:
You didn't say at what distance or number of shots ?
Click to expand...

I don't think that matters much to those who claim 0.5moa all day long. But the options are wide open since there are very few 20 shot Xring (0.5moa) records.
 
CharlieNC said:
I don't think that matters much to those who claim 0.5moa all day long. But the options are wide open since there are very few 20 shot Xring (0.5moa) records.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming of course the qualifier is that you have to actually shoot it, not your mechanized fire control system shooting it for you.
 
CharlieNC said:
I don't think that matters much to those who claim 0.5moa all day long. But the options are wide open since there are very few 20 shot Xring (0.5moa) records.
Click to expand...

At 100 yards definitely doable, but at f class distances all bets are off, and im not just talking of myself.

I'm sure there are some that could pull it off, but everyday.
 
W54/XM-388 said:
I'm assuming of course the qualifier is that you have to actually shoot it, not your mechanized fire control system shooting it for you.
Click to expand...

I shoot Ftr which requires an attached bipod. F Open is off an unlimited rest. All prone. Doesn't matter, very few 20 shot 0.5moa records regardless of class or equipment. My point was 0.5moa all day long claims are meaningless, have no definition, and are generally BS or the record books would reflect it.
 
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I think some context might help in this discussion. I agree that 5 shot groups are fairly meaningless, but as humans, it is about impossible to test 10 or 20, let alone 40 shot groups (like Eley does), and get reliable data. Some may be able to do it, but not very bloody many. So, as humans, we are sort of stuck with 5 shot group as a reasonable measure of our system's precision. This is important, because it gives you an idea of what you might expect if all goes well. Once you know that, you can pick the most appropriate load and then concentrate on your accuracy, which as mentioned above, is generally more important. Sort of silly to work on accuracy with an imprecise system though, so best to test that first.

Assuming practical use of the rifle, you are now set. If you are pursuing something else, than by all means, do what is most appropriate for that pursuit.

People get all worked up over group shooting, but it is a fundamental, both for choosing a load, as well as demonstrating that you understand some of the fundamentals of shooting. Useful to do, but not the be all end all. Kind of like most things.
 
OP, that grouping looks fine if you are using the rifle for any practical applications. It’s a trade off depending on the role of your rifle.

Sure, I could build an 18lb rifle to shoot off a bench and get sub .5 groups. Especially shooting off the types of rests some guys use. But hump that thing for a few miles on steep terrain with no bench and see how your groups look.

It all depends on your goals... and I’m not calling anyone out but frankly everyone on the internet has a sub .5 moa all day long rifle. It comes with a WiFi subscription.
 
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What would you consider to be acceptable for a rifle specifically for PRS/NRL?
I have a rifle that seems to give near zero vertical spread but consistent horizontal stringing, and I can't work out why.
 
Everyone can cherry pick and make claims. The reality is, I would put my money that the average gun, though capable of sub .5" groups, most often shoots between .5" and 1".

If a person stepped up and took 5 shots and accepted that as the accuracy capability of their gun, those group size claims would open up a bit.

I shot a team precision rifle match in January with 13 teams, 26 shooters. The first stage was a 5 shot, cold bore group for score. X and 10 rings were 10 points, 9 ring was 9, etc. The X was .5 in diameter, the 10 ring was 1" in diameter, and each subsequent ring was 1" thick. There was also bonus points for the 3 smallest groups. I shot the 2nd smallest group of .48. 1st place was right at .3, 3rd place was a hair smaller than .6. About 40% of the field kept it inside 1 moa, everyone else was worse.

26 shooters and only two stayed under a half inch. The large majority were between .7 to 1.2" or so. The groups you choose to count versus the ones you fire and forget make a pretty big difference.
 
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I've been waiting on this thread. Lots of "spaghetti night" rifles on the internet. That's my word for when the stars align, as in you ate spaghetti the night before you caught the new state record crappie. The spaghetti had nothing to do with it. Anyway I'm betting most of those one hole groups guy's post are not the first 5 shots on any random day. Most likely a "spaghetti night" group. With that being said, maybe I'm just a shitty shot. I'd sure love to get to shoot a legit one hole 100 yard rifle just to see how bad I do suck.
 
I run a Savage LRP. It was pretty accurate at first... But then got the can on it and jeez. It was a different animal. It turned into a laser. I'm assuming the can helped in the harmonics of the rifle. I got new glass for it the other day and was dialing it in with factor Hornady 147eld. I have a 2'x2' soft steel plate that I was shooting holes through. After I dialed it in I shot a hole, followed up with shooting the edge out of the first hole. Then shot the edge out of the first 2 holes. About 10mins later my brother in law came by. I asked if wanted to shoot it. He said "what are you shooting at?" I said "just pick out one of the dimples on the steel" he took his shot... looked over at me with a big grin. I said "where did it hit?" He said "I shot the dimple out!"

With that being said... I only landed 3 shots out of 20 at 1345yrds. The wind ate my lunch.
 

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5 shot group 2 weeks ago to verify the load. Rifle had been in the safe for a few months. Turned out a .18moa 5 shot group at 100yds. Bipod and Armageddon squeeze bag.

Ran it last weekend, 5 groups of 5. Averaged .52moa from the bipod and Armageddon rear bag. Happy with the results, but it can do better. Winds were 6-10mph and the target stand was moving, which impacted results.
1967884F-E083-4057-85D7-86106DC7CF71.jpeg
D35E4082-5D0D-483F-A1EE-7B4D71AA03EE.jpeg
 
I hit a 1" plate at 500 yards the first time I shot at it. That doesn't mean I am a 1/5 moa shooter. It just means that I was damn lucky at that exact time and have never been that lucky since. I would claim that I am a 3/4 moa shooter based on the groups I get during load development (sometimes its better but not consistent) but I have no issue saying im a 1.5-2 moa shooter at 1000 yards and sometimes its even worse than that. At that distance anything over 15mph and I'm a solid 2+ moa shooter. I hate the wind when im shooting but love it on a gassy day.

realistically, anything 1 moa or better is golden in my book. I have a Remington 783 in 270 that shoots core lokt's about as old as me and prints beautiful 3/4 moa groups every time I shoot it. My custom 260 Remington is a consistent 3/4 moa rifle with handloads. one costs a couple hundred, one costs several thousand.

if small holes gives you a hard on, join F-class. I ringing steel gives you a hard on, you're in the right place.
 
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I shoot a 300 win and I am clueless how people shoot bug holes at 100 yards. I can shoot 1/2 moa (not every group), and sometimes they are touching. Whenever people ask me I just say it shoots better than I can. I am probably the real reason i dont have better groups. Although, I dont shoot from a sled, and my reticle is overly thick (Yeah, thats the real reason, HAHAHA).

I'd have to watch someone shoot the tiny groups on paper to see their setup to see where I could improve.
 
magtech said:
I shoot a 300 win and I am clueless how people shoot bug holes at 100 yards. I can shoot 1/2 moa (not every group), and sometimes they are touching. Whenever people ask me I just say it shoots better than I can. I am probably the real reason i dont have better groups. Although, I dont shoot from a sled, and my reticle is overly thick (Yeah, thats the real reason, HAHAHA).

I'd have to watch someone shoot the tiny groups on paper to see their setup to see where I could improve.
Click to expand...
My group above was a factory Rem 700 Tactical 20” bull barrel. In a floppy hogue stock on a Harris bipod with a tab rear bag. Scope was a SWFA fixed 10x. Shot on a dead calm morning. With factory 55g. And a huge amount of luck.... lol
 
I don't have any low recoil options like that. Everything I shoot makes my head ring-a-ding-ding-dong after 20 or so shots.
 
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I simply tell people consistently sub-moa. If i shoot over an inch, I screwed up. Practical accuracy for my needs.

magtech said:
I don't have any low recoil options like that. Everything I shoot makes my head ring-a-ding-ding-dong after 20 or so shots.
Click to expand...

APA Big Bastard. My .300wm is so fun to shoot, but warn range partners. lol I can more consistently shoot tighter groups with my .300wm barrel than I can my 6.5cm!
 
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SRPowah said:
I simply tell people consistently sub-moa. If i shoot over an inch, I screwed up. Practical accuracy for my needs.



APA Big Bastard. My .300wm is so fun to shoot, but warn range partners. lol I can more consistently shoot tighter groups with my .300wm barrel than I can my 6.5cm!
Click to expand...
As people who are paid to shoot have been saying for at least a half century.
My .300WM is as accurate as my 6X47L match rifle, but it's also a fancy built rifle.
 
FireInTheWire said:
that's what my 338lm does to me.. Can't stand the wait for my can to get the green light
Click to expand...

The can won't be a huge improvement on recoil management. But it does shave a little off.

I shoot my 300 Norma mag all day without issues with a big Area 419 Hellfire on it. I shot 65 rounds of 230gr Berger Hybrids over 92.6grs of RE33 in a tshirt last fall with no soreness. And it's not exactly heavy coming in at 12lbs.

The right brake makes just about any rifle much more comfortable to shoot.
 
Birddog6424 said:
The can won't be a huge improvement on recoil management. But it does shave a little off.

I shoot my 300 Norma mag all day without issues with a big Area 419 Hellfire on it. I shot 65 rounds of 230gr Berger Hybrids over 92.6grs of RE33 in a tshirt last fall with no soreness. And it's not exactly heavy coming in at 12lbs.

The right brake makes just about any rifle much more comfortable to shoot.
Click to expand...

The thing for me was the brake being ungodly loud. It's a pain having to double up on ear pro. Maybe I needed a different one... But jeez it's loud.
 
FireInTheWire said:
The thing for me was the brake being ungodly loud. It's a pain having to double up on ear pro. Maybe I needed a different one... But jeez it's loud.
Click to expand...

Yep, I'm with you there. The can is much easier on the ears.. and the brake is much easier on the shoulder.
 
At one time, I was a pretty good shot. Now that diabetes has taken it's toll, I'm lucky to be a 3moa shooter. Sucks getting older.
 
My Tikka TAC A1 is definitely more accurate than I am. Here is a nice 3-shot group I managed last weekend @ 100 yards. Best I've shot with it so far
TacA1Best.jpg

And the best I've done with my Tikka CTR, also 6.5CM
CTR_Best.jpg

Here is more of my typical TAC grouping (same ammo as the single hole target above)
TAC_BLack.jpg
 
I personally don’t shoot much better than 1/2 myself, and I have shot some world class rifles. Lol. Best group ever was 1/3 on a hand built .243. But I’m perfectly OK with that, I get a huge kick out ignore the steel being rung and the deer I shoot don’t care that I only shot 1 MOA that day.
 
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