How accurate is your rifle at 100 yards
- Thread starter Codiekfx400
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I shoot groups that I call "sustained fire." That's equivalent to what happens in an F-class match. 20 shots at an average of 1 min./shot. Most F/Open shooters want to run the course of fire much faster than that, to take advantage of good conditions. Test groups start at 5-shots each. When I think something is good, I shoot 10-shot groups. The barrel doesn't get cooled until it's fired at least 20-30 shots in testing. Many F-class shooters will shoot 6-7 sighters on their first string, to get the rifle to settle in. I have noticed the same thing. Example: firing a 20-shot test group, the first 8 shots were in a circle, a bit larger than 0.5". The next 12 shots disappeared in a very small hole in the middle of the group. Total CTC was 0.68". That's as good as I've ever done. On the other end of the spectrum, there are the "pencil-barreled" rifles, like a Savage 110 with a factory takeoff barrel in .308 Win., 22" long, and 0.57" diameter at the muzzle. From a cold clean bore, I shot a 20-shot group that was 1.74". The cold-bore shot, shot #12, and shot #17 were slightly separate from the other 17 shots, which measured 0.96". This was fired without any cooling between shots. I only tested this one time, to demonstrate for a person who asked a question about thin barrels. Here are the points: Until you fire 10-20 shot groups, you don't really know about the rifle-load-shooter combination. Skinny-contour barrels should shoot sustained fire just fine. 10-shot groups are very precise at 0.6-0.75". 20-shot groups are very precise at 0.8-1.2". There is no such thing as a flier. You shoot it, you own it.
As a general rule, expect group size to double when shooting 3, 5, 10, and 20-shot groups. In a separate test, I fired groups of those number of shots without cooling, using a .308 Win. 3-shot=0.105", 5-shot=0.34", 10-shot=0.6", and 20-shot=1.165". Total 38 shots, starting from cold/clean with the 3-shot group.
As a general rule, expect group size to double when shooting 3, 5, 10, and 20-shot groups. In a separate test, I fired groups of those number of shots without cooling, using a .308 Win. 3-shot=0.105", 5-shot=0.34", 10-shot=0.6", and 20-shot=1.165". Total 38 shots, starting from cold/clean with the 3-shot group.
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I've had my Tikka rebarreled to 6.5x47lapua with a Rock Creek and it averages .75 moa regardless of load and seating depth.
The factory 7mm08 barrel that came off was consistently under .5 moa even after 4500 rounds. But was losing velocity.
I'm somewhat disappointed but have to put up with it until I can justify another rebarrel.
The factory 7mm08 barrel that came off was consistently under .5 moa even after 4500 rounds. But was losing velocity.
I'm somewhat disappointed but have to put up with it until I can justify another rebarrel.
D
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Fig gets it. Every time you shoot a group add it to this as instructed. It doesn't have to be on the same day. Watch the 90% confidence level settle down after 30 shots. It is an ego buster.
https://guns.ptosis.ch/taran-en
https://guns.ptosis.ch/taran-en
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Returning to an old topic, and being older myself (72 now...); I find 1/2MOA to be really hard to do with any regularity, and 1 MOA to be pretty mundane. Since I'm not physically comfortable trying to do prone comp these days, my demands on myself and my equipment and ammo are not as strenuous, but I still put the full effort into getting the handloads fully up to spec. My biggest worry is the encroaching cataracts.
My gear is nearly all configured to be among the more accurate on the line at the local formal range. The harder part is getting a decent portion of accurate out of it these days. I do well enough to make myself happy, and I tend to be rather hard on myself.
My most accurate rifle at 100yd is either one of the pair of Stag Model 6 Super Varminters I maintain; they hover at just over 1/2MOA at 100, and I have shot them with good confidence at 600yd within the past two years here in Arizona. I put the second one together from a factory kit; it is functionally indistinguishable from the other one which is going on a decade in my possession. I think they're just great shooting factory varmint guns with a total lack of headaches.
But even my older Savage 10FCM Scout 7.62x39 does not shoot shabby. It has a .308" bore and shoots max loaded Hornady .308 110gr V-Max just like a good factory varmint rifle. It's a genuinely pleasant surprise for a very basic rifle.
Even with a max load of IMR-4198 there are no pressure indications, and it tends to make me suspect that published loads may be a tad understated to accommodate foreign military actions and 308/311 bullet/bore mismatches. Whatever, I'm NOT going beyond published max.
My medical/physical situation is no longer ideal, and recoil from the 30-06 is beginning to get a bit beyond my tolerance. What the heck, I'll just concentrate on shooting my Garand as much as a can while I still can; that rifle and I have a passionate relationship. 2MOA is supposed to be National Match standard, but she's been worked (glassbedded, butt plate extension, globe front sight with ring insert) and shoots a lot closer to the 1MOA range. I just put together another 200 of my economy FGMM clone match load for it yesterday; 168SMK/48.1gr IMR-4064, but in Rem brass, with WLR priming. I expect it's going to max me out on the recoil. Maybe I'll end up putting on a Limbsaver Slip-On, the danged thing is still short for my 6' 5 1/2" frame.
Hey, you only get to go around once...
Greg
My gear is nearly all configured to be among the more accurate on the line at the local formal range. The harder part is getting a decent portion of accurate out of it these days. I do well enough to make myself happy, and I tend to be rather hard on myself.
My most accurate rifle at 100yd is either one of the pair of Stag Model 6 Super Varminters I maintain; they hover at just over 1/2MOA at 100, and I have shot them with good confidence at 600yd within the past two years here in Arizona. I put the second one together from a factory kit; it is functionally indistinguishable from the other one which is going on a decade in my possession. I think they're just great shooting factory varmint guns with a total lack of headaches.
But even my older Savage 10FCM Scout 7.62x39 does not shoot shabby. It has a .308" bore and shoots max loaded Hornady .308 110gr V-Max just like a good factory varmint rifle. It's a genuinely pleasant surprise for a very basic rifle.
Even with a max load of IMR-4198 there are no pressure indications, and it tends to make me suspect that published loads may be a tad understated to accommodate foreign military actions and 308/311 bullet/bore mismatches. Whatever, I'm NOT going beyond published max.
My medical/physical situation is no longer ideal, and recoil from the 30-06 is beginning to get a bit beyond my tolerance. What the heck, I'll just concentrate on shooting my Garand as much as a can while I still can; that rifle and I have a passionate relationship. 2MOA is supposed to be National Match standard, but she's been worked (glassbedded, butt plate extension, globe front sight with ring insert) and shoots a lot closer to the 1MOA range. I just put together another 200 of my economy FGMM clone match load for it yesterday; 168SMK/48.1gr IMR-4064, but in Rem brass, with WLR priming. I expect it's going to max me out on the recoil. Maybe I'll end up putting on a Limbsaver Slip-On, the danged thing is still short for my 6' 5 1/2" frame.
Hey, you only get to go around once...
Greg
MRAD 6.5 Creedmoor is constantly in the .4's with 5 shots.
Was just doing seating depth and basically had 60% of the seating depth tested lots shoot .5 or less.
Was just doing seating depth and basically had 60% of the seating depth tested lots shoot .5 or less.
To answer the question, I would say that I have no idea how accurate my rifle is. I am limited by my ammo and my skill, and to assign a level of precision (which is what I took the OP to actually be asking) to the rifle, seems arbitrary at best.
With any of my good rifles, using the factory ammo that I use, I can hold around 5/8" most of the time. That's 5 shots at 100. Sometimes I am lucky to stay under an inch, and occasionally I shoot tighter than 5/8", but my "normal best" ability is probably around 5/8"
Now, I do have that one magic rifle that everyone on the net has. It is an APA 300WM, with a chamber cut for Berger 230's. It has regularly put 5 shots at 100 into .1 of an inch. I can't claim every group, or even every day I have shot it, but it has happened enough to make me believe that I am the limiting factor and that the gun is incredibly accurate. Unfortunately, I no longer reload much, and also have no distance that makes a 300WM worth shooting, so it stays in the safe, minus a scope right now. If I ever get back to having anything close to a 2000 yard range again, it will come back out, though I really don't want to start loading again.
With any of my good rifles, using the factory ammo that I use, I can hold around 5/8" most of the time. That's 5 shots at 100. Sometimes I am lucky to stay under an inch, and occasionally I shoot tighter than 5/8", but my "normal best" ability is probably around 5/8"
Now, I do have that one magic rifle that everyone on the net has. It is an APA 300WM, with a chamber cut for Berger 230's. It has regularly put 5 shots at 100 into .1 of an inch. I can't claim every group, or even every day I have shot it, but it has happened enough to make me believe that I am the limiting factor and that the gun is incredibly accurate. Unfortunately, I no longer reload much, and also have no distance that makes a 300WM worth shooting, so it stays in the safe, minus a scope right now. If I ever get back to having anything close to a 2000 yard range again, it will come back out, though I really don't want to start loading again.
Here's my 308 that I tested the mounting system with 10 shots at 100 yards. LC 98 LR ammo, Leupold QRW rings. 5 shots, detach the scope, replace scope and shoot 5 more. At 200 yards, groups are about the same. I'm happy with the results as it's my hunting rifle.
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My AI AT with a proof barrel can shoot better than 0.4 at 100 (5 shot groups). Off a solid rest, I have seen 0.25 MOA. I can generally keep a 5 shot group at 0.5-0.7. Hornady Match 140 grain. I have done better but not consistently.
Your group size will definitely vary as the number of shots increase. My 10 round group can go as high as 1 MOA but generally is better. Mental attitude is incredibly important along with preparedness. The more of the process of firing a perfect shot you can put into muscle memory, the better you will get as it allows you to focus on fewer variables.
It is all mental masturbation unless you shoot F-Class or BR which I don't. You are better off with dot drills and know your limits types of targets IMHO
Your group size will definitely vary as the number of shots increase. My 10 round group can go as high as 1 MOA but generally is better. Mental attitude is incredibly important along with preparedness. The more of the process of firing a perfect shot you can put into muscle memory, the better you will get as it allows you to focus on fewer variables.
It is all mental masturbation unless you shoot F-Class or BR which I don't. You are better off with dot drills and know your limits types of targets IMHO
This is a 10 shot group from 100 yards yesterday. I was
trying out my new Sig can for the first time. I can do better if I take my time but it is what it is.
I don’t shoot groups that often, and I’ve only been using my AX 308 for a few months, so I’m still getting used to it. I don’t know if these groups will be the norm, or if they’ll get better or worse, on average, but here are a couple I shot in training. The Hornady 168 gr. TAP is our duty load, so I haven’t tried anything else.
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A crappy phone pic, but this is today's 10 shot group.
I've been having some horizontal stringing and couldn't get rid of it by changing seating depth so I increased the charge.
I know 1 group isn't really a reliable test, but this'll do me.
6.5x47lapua, 123gn Scenars, 38gns of 2208 for 2989 f/s, SD of 6
I've been having some horizontal stringing and couldn't get rid of it by changing seating depth so I increased the charge.
I know 1 group isn't really a reliable test, but this'll do me.
6.5x47lapua, 123gn Scenars, 38gns of 2208 for 2989 f/s, SD of 6
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I had the barrel cut down on my savage backup gun, here is the zero target after putting it back together. 5 rounds to zero in the center, then shot an inch or so 3 shot group on the bottom left, then punched the middle out of the half inch dots at the 10 , 2 and 4. I’m happy with it, I’m going to call it a sub-moa rifle, but I decided I’m through chasing groups. The dots I used are 1/2” inventory stickers from Uline, about $10 for a roll of 1000, I also got some 3/4” neon yellow dots that I haven’t shot yet. I think the neon yellow ones will be hard as heck to see in full sun on a white target, not sure if there will be value in trying to shoot those, but I’m going to try.
I don't shoot groups. Typically, however, I can shoot to within 0.5 MOA @100 yards about 70% of the time, and to within 0.75 MOA @100 yards 25% of the time. The rest of the time, the last 5%, I really mess up...
R,
jmw
R,
jmw
Been shooting consistently .7 MOA at 200 yards but I'm going to be testing different bullet weights for accuracy this week and re zeroing at 100 yards. I pop up some pix and we'll see. Just added an MDT LSS-XL Gen2 chassis and other goodies to my Savage 10 6.5 CM build and I'm done building it now. So phase two is to find it's favorite Factory load before I start handloading this Winter.
We'll see how it goes and report back.
I will say that even in it's Factory AccuStock and cheap ass scope I'm hard pressed to out shoot the gun. The weakest link in my recent quest for precision rifle shooting is me. I'm not yet good enough to get the full potential of the gun I have built but it's getting better every day.
VooDoo
We'll see how it goes and report back.
I will say that even in it's Factory AccuStock and cheap ass scope I'm hard pressed to out shoot the gun. The weakest link in my recent quest for precision rifle shooting is me. I'm not yet good enough to get the full potential of the gun I have built but it's getting better every day.
VooDoo
I personally do a lot of my load development and shooting at ranges greater than 100. Grouping at 200-300 yards allows you to open up the size of your groups in inches amd really see what kind of moa you are producing. Best group ive ever shot was .5” at 200 yards or .25moa... i dont even know how you measure .25 moa at 100 yards from a 30 cal round.
I stopped shooting group's when I learned I can't shoot them well. Practice now on 1/2 moa targets trying to get one shot hits on them consistently. Or shooting 1 moa steel at distance. What I like best is when I can get a first round hits on a silhouette steel target at a thousand + yards. Most rifles shoot better than I do so I stopped disappointing myself trying to chase group's.
Must admit this is the best I have ever shot my average with 155gn projectiles is consistently in the 0.3-0.4 group size for 5rds. In practice during a competition (tactical style) groups will be 5” at 600m From prone bipod, with rear bag, at short exposures etc. hope this gives you an idea of the different variables that impact on group size
I wonder if people here are shooting from the same position? Likely, not I suspect.
Are you shooting from a rest, with the rifle locked it with sandbags?
Or, are you getting your groups from the prone position off the rifle's bipod?
Might be useful to not only post your groups, but post how you shot them.
Personally, I am more interested in what I can do with my rifle shooting off the bipod from the prone...
R,
jmw
Are you shooting from a rest, with the rifle locked it with sandbags?
Or, are you getting your groups from the prone position off the rifle's bipod?
Might be useful to not only post your groups, but post how you shot them.
Personally, I am more interested in what I can do with my rifle shooting off the bipod from the prone...
R,
jmw
I agree. I never shoot from a benchrest set up so I’m not going to test my rifle that way. This is my home brew used Savage action with Criterion barrel in an AICS off the bipod. I shot it top down. First two groups were a little squirrely but got it together after that. I feel I have gotten better since this was taken and could probably keep them all under .5. I don’t really shoot many groups though.
If you are seeing exactly how accurate the rifle or the load is, then sometimes you need to make sure you are not messing up the results.
Then once you know a firm baseline, you can measure how well you can do matching up to controlled results in a variety of different settings.
Then once you know a firm baseline, you can measure how well you can do matching up to controlled results in a variety of different settings.
True. I maybe wrong, but I think that benchrest shooting is a whole different discipline.
I am more interested in what I can do with the rifle. Not what some special barrel, load, bullet, powder load, primer type, brass type, ammo prep... can do.
Give me the rifle, give me some good ammo, and then let me work on my skills to shoot that rifle well.
R,
Sanjuro
3 shots at 100 yards with my desert tech hti in 375 cheytac:
