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Gunsmithing How Bad is This? Bolt Face

C

Catzass

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 28, 2010
51
0
40
Houston, Texas
www.adjustertrainingsolutions.com
How safe is this to shoot?

Tell me the run down on this, can it be fixed?

I did not do this to this action, I just got it and don't know what to do?

Thanks for your help in advance.

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Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

Thats etching caused from the primer leaking hot gas during firing. Most Remingtons have it but some dont. If it's mainly surface etching it should be fine.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

That gas leaking around the primer. Either through excessive pressure, loose primer pockets/improperly seated primers or loose headspace, gas was able to push the primer out slightly and
leak around the primer pocket and erode the boltface. If it happens enough times, it begins to cut into the boltface, which is what you're seeing.

It's repairable. Not too involved and not too expensive.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

It doesn't affect anything other than being cosmetic. If fixed, barrel may have to be set back as well. When primers get loose, it's time to chuck the brass.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

Over the years there has been certain lots of primers that crack on the corners. It's acts like a cutting torch when that happens. That's probably what happened to that one large spot. I wouldn't worry about it. I've Tig'd some up and resurfaced the bolt face but if you shoot a rifle long enough you'll etch a ring on the bolt face. No big deal.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

There is a book by Kuhnhausen on sporterizing Mausers that says to re face the bolt if it has that kind of etching.

Don't do it.
The gun will shoot fine the way it is, but it can have all kinds of problems with extraction and ejection if you face the bolt.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face


How bad is that bolt face ? Well I would be happy to put a new bolt face in for you for a couple of dollars.I will need the bolt not the rifle and I will turn it around in just a few days
wink.gif
Give me a call after 4:30 pst time Tuesday 310-275-8797 and we can speak about it...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Mike
Tac Ops</span>
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Black Ops</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Well I would be happy to put a new bolt face in for you for a <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">couple of dollars</span></span>.I will need the bolt not the rifle and I will turn it around in just a few days
wink.gif
Give me a call after 4:30 pst time Tuesday 310-275-8797 and we can speak about it...
<span style="font-weight: bold">Mike
Tac Ops</span> </div></div>

That’s a very kind offer from a very talented smith. I've looked at various 700's and their clones and this is a very common problem. If the OP wants to have this fixed I'd take Mike R. up on his offer.

This service could probably be purchased for the price of a Large Triple Shot Espresso, Wet with Extra Foam and a twist of cinnamon
wink.gif
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This service could probably be purchased for the price of a Large Triple Shot Espresso, Wet with Extra Foam and a twist of cinnamon
wink.gif
</div></div>

God my girlfriend drinks more masculine crap than that lol. Now if she could only build a rifle.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kbrady</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This service could probably be purchased for the price of a Large Triple Shot Espresso, Wet with Extra Foam and a twist of cinnamon
wink.gif
</div></div>

God my girlfriend drinks more masculine crap than that lol. Now if she could only build a rifle. </div></div>

Thats what he drinks.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

I know, must be a California thing!
wink.gif
Back on track, is it possible that the damage to the bolt face could progress so far as to make it fail?
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

Guys, thanks for all the help. I bought this gun out of the "for sale" section where it was advertised to only have fired 125 rounds and there was absolutely nothing wrong with the gun. So when I saw the bolt face I was a little surprised.

He also sent 50 loaded rounds. On the day he shipped the gun he warned me that those loads had showed some serious pressure signs and I might want to pull those bullets. So I did and then ran one of the cases to get the head space because all of the brass were previously fire formed. I could not hardly get the bolt to close on the bullets he sent with the gun. So that might explain...

Black Ops, I'll give you a call.

JP
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kbrady</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is it possible that the damage to the bolt face could progress so far as to make it fail? </div></div>

Doubtful
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a Large Triple Shot Espresso, Wet with Extra Foam and a twist of cinnamon</div></div>

Ok, I need some translation, I know what most of that is but what the hell is "wet" supposed to mean? All my coffee drinks are wet.

I'm even less hip than I thought.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

I couldn't begin to tell ya, I've never even drank a cup of coffee lol!
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, I need some translation, what the hell is "wet" supposed to mean? </div></div>

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Extra Low Fat Milk.</span></span>

You know how those freaks in L.A. are (not Louisiana either)
wink.gif
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

William, did Mike have to explain that to you or did you have prior knowledge of that information?
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Catzass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys, thanks for all the help. I bought this gun out of the "for sale" section where it was advertised to only have fired 125 rounds and there was absolutely nothing wrong with the gun. So when I saw the bolt face I was a little surprised.

He also sent 50 loaded rounds. On the day he shipped the gun he warned me that those loads had showed some serious pressure signs and I might want to pull those bullets. So I did and then ran one of the cases to get the head space because all of the brass were previously fire formed. I could not hardly get the bolt to close on the bullets he sent with the gun. So that might explain...

Black Ops, I'll give you a call.

JP</div></div>

We know the guy who had it was awful at reloading because the brass had every pressure sign I know of besides a missing eye ball.


I have never seen head space so far out on a piece of brass as the loaded rounds that guy sent with it. They need 1/8in+ to smoothly close the bolt.

I have a rifle with 2k rounds on it and it doesn't have bolt face erosion that I can see. But that hot I don't know how many it would take.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kbrady</div><div class="ubbcode-body">William, did Mike have to explain that to you </div></div>

Three times
wink.gif
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to Starbucks and ordering a Venti Tac Ops. </div></div>

That was the name for the large "Venti" I couldnt remember it.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kbrady</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is Venti a "large" or 20 ounces? </div></div>

I don’t know, Mike R. better chime in pretty quick, this is his area of expertise.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

Or it could be the same, I know Venti means 20.......it could also be what they consider a large as well.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kbrady</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Or it could be the same, I know Venti means 20.......it could also be what they consider a large as well. </div></div>

From Starbucks

<span style="font-weight: bold">Venti = 20 oz. hot, 24 oz. cold. For some reason the iced Venti cups hold four more ounces; for this reason, Venti espresso drinks have an extra shot of espresso in them, and cost a few cents more than their hot equivalents. Pronounced "VENN-tee," and reportedly means twenty in Italian. </span>
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

Yeah, thats not complicated at all. My girlfriend likes that iced coffee crap from there and it just looks horrible. I'll stick with my RC Cola tyvm!
cool.gif
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

Ok, not to sidetrack the coffee conversation
smile.gif


BUT,
With the rounds described as sent with the rifle being grossly over charged, could the bolt face damge be an indication of hidden damage from those dangerously over pressure rounds? We have all seen pictures of catastrophic bolt failures (usually from out of battery slamfire in a semi-auto).

Just curious what other parts of a bolt action rifle could be damaged with rounds that hot? Or is it basically if the chamber and bolt lugs hold then they should still be ok?

Should some form of inspection penetrant be used on the entire bolt to look for stress fractures?

madd0c
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

I am happy to chime in
wink.gif
<span style="font-weight: bold">Roscoe</span> called me around 9:00 in the morning my time and I had just pulled an 18 hour day. I probably could have used a few more hours of sleep lol. He said I sounded like shit and I probably did. He caught me at the Starbucks counter ordering my Tac Ops Cappuccino.

Goes like this...

Good morning I would like to order a Venti Cappuccino 3 shots of espresso 185 degrees Extra foam None fat milk with a twist of cinnamon with a double cup so I don’t burn my hands. He laughed is ass off and asked me if I was serious and I said you GD right I am. He called me later and asked me exactly what I started my day with and I said WTF for? He was going to try one to see if he liked it and I said no shit. So tell us Bro did you?

<span style="font-weight: bold">BTT</span>

To the OP I saw that you had a nice bolt handle and sexy looking bolt body but your bolt face looked like shit. That is why I offered to repair it by putting a new bolt face in for you. I agree with the other smiths you should not have any problems with the way it is now.

Payment: StarBucks coffee card
wink.gif


Looking forward to speaking with you...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Mike
Tac Ops</span>
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

Yes William tell us.............was it everything you hoped it would be and more??
wink.gif
And, Mike is another good dude on here for sure! Hopefully generosity like yours and Williams is catching!

Kelly
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

Why fix something that isn't broken. The face is in the right spot so far as headspace goes, perpedicular to the bolt raceway, correctly spaced to the extractors etc. If it is fixed here are the potential issues:

1. Headspace is longer. Will no longer be a standard .700, action will be needed to make new barrel. Action can be faced to match, but why.

2. Extractor wont move back with face and will have a further gap under it.

3. Removal of extractor will be most likely required. They are easily bent. Will cost a new extractor if so.

4. If it is cut enough to put another piece into the face to make up space it can weaken bolt and will the piece stay in etc.

5. More then likely wont be as square, original bolt is ground with high end grinders.

I see absolutely no reason to touch this action and try to correct a cosmetic issue. Best case is that the pits are gone it will will work as good as it is now. There are many things that can go bad modifying it, why screw with it.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why fix something that isn't broken. The face is in the right spot so far as headspace goes, perpedicular to the bolt raceway, correctly spaced to the extractors etc. If it is fixed here are the potential issues:

1. Headspace is longer. Will no longer be a standard .700, action will be needed to make new barrel. Action can be faced to match, but why.

2. Extractor wont move back with face and will have a further gap under it.

3. Removal of extractor will be most likely required. They are easily bent. Will cost a new extractor if so.

4. If it is cut enough to put another piece into the face to make up space it can weaken bolt and will the piece stay in etc.

5. More then likely wont be as square, original bolt is ground with high end grinders.

I see absolutely no reason to touch this action and try to correct a cosmetic issue. Best case is that the pits are gone it will will work as good as it is now. There are many things that can go bad modifying it, why screw with it. </div></div>

I think Mike is more than capable of doing this job correctly.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

I dont know Mike, but I am sure that he is. I am not questioning anyones qualifications, I myself wouldn't fool with this if it was mine and I built it. Shit can happen when you do things and why take the chance to correct something not broke. If the bolt is correctly indicated in, the extractor removed and replaced, face cut with very sharp tool etc etc it will be fine. It will take some time and probably not be any better then it is now, except not have pits. Just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

I understand that train of thought. Mike is the head of Tac Ops, an extremely nice guy and a hell of a plumber. If he told me he wanted to cut my barrel in half lengthwise and zip tie it back together, I would probably let him.

Kelly
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

Based on the appearance of your bolt face I would recommend that it be bushed. I have had 4 Tac-Ops rifles and my newest one had a problem with a primer doughnut ring around the firing pin, firing factory FGGM ammo or handloads in same pressure range. Appeared to be a Remington factory defect. Never lost any primers and accuracy was top notch, but I did not like it.Sent it back to Mike and he bushed the bolt-face firing pin hole and returned it. It still shoots as before, with no primer dougnut. If it had been re-coated with the Green-T you would never know it had been worked on. I did not want to wait. If I were you I would get the bolt fixed, and Mike can do it well.
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face

Just got off the phone with Mike over at Tac Ops...all I can say is he's a damn good guy. He spent 45 minutes on the phone helping me out and I'm not even a customer of his. Well, not yet anyways.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Big +1 for Mike and Tac Ops!

JP
 
Re: How Bad is This? Bolt Face


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just got off the phone with Mike over at Tac Ops...all I can say is he's a damn good guy. He spent 45 minutes on the phone helping me out and I'm not even a customer of his. Well, not yet anyways.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Big +1 for Mike and Tac Ops!

JP</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">wouldn't it be better to get a new bolt body?</span> What about the lugs if this thing was OP enough to damage the bolt face like that?</div></div>

JP it was a pleasure to speak with you Sir. Feel free to call anytime you like as I am happy to help...

To answer your question you don't need a new bolt body. If one knows what they are doing this is not a problem to repair. We have done many over the years and they come out perfect;)

<span style="font-weight: bold">Mike
Tac Ops</span>
 
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