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Gunsmithing how big do you think these bolts are??

AXEMAN

AXEMAN

General Nuisance
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 17, 2009
5,033
6
kansas, topeka
#1
in this picture

465185-large.jpg


or this video

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1/2" at least. 9/16" or 5/8"?

i have some 5/8" all thread i was gonna use...its not fine thread, but i think it will work. if not i will get bigger, but i dont have ready access to a drill press so if i have to drill bigger holes than my 5/8" i want to do that from the start. thanks
 
#3
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

i feared that. the fine threads are rare it seems. some stuff here is hard to find. i told a few people about the local fastenall had a $10 minimun the first and last time i went there and that appears to be a local policy. the hardware store has nothing that big either in fine, and only 9/16"x6" coarse. hmmmm.

im 4.5" top to bottom on the parts that i have

4390409414_9890faa93d_b.jpg


so i think a 6" will do. there are two hardware stores on the same block, ill have to see what they have. really i think ill drill 5/8" just to be safe and start with the all thread. i have it on hand. the two lengths of steel only cost $8 so im gonna see how cheap i can get this done. if anyone has some 5/8"x6" or 7" fine thread nuts, bolts and washers, id be interested. let me look local first. thanks
 
#5
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

I've built a fully functional action vise that is capable of taking off the barrels from MN 91/30's and military mausers and it uses 5/16 coarse all thread.

If you have 3/8" all thread or larger it will do just fine.
 
#7
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

even with two 1/2-20 studs and full barrel diameter aluminum split bushings, i had to torque the hell out of the nuts to get a couple oem remington barrels off without slipping.

personally, i'd build it as stout as i could the first time. i hate doing things twice because i under built it the first time.
 
#8
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">even with two 1/2-20 studs and full barrel diameter aluminum split bushings, i had to torque the hell out of the nuts to get a couple oem remington barrels off without slipping.

personally, i'd build it as stout as i could the first time. i hate doing things twice because i under built it the first time. </div></div>

Agreed, build it stotuter-than-hell. That said, Remington <span style="font-weight: bold">both</span> gorilla-wrenches their barrels <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold"></span>and</span> <span style="font-style: italic">glues</span> them in place. IIRC, the OP is a Savage shooter, and their barrels are significantly easier to remove.
 
#9
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

I have lots of bolts in the shop,many are grade-8 or better and fine thread.If you are interested,,I will look tomorrow.A friend has a vice like that,I'm pretty sure those are 3/4 with 1 1/8 nuts. Pete
 
#10
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

thanks for the offers, i may have to take you up on it. i thought i was gonna get away with just using the vise next door, but... the barrel was held fast, but as i tightened the nut, the whole receiver, recoil lug and nut turned. so i had to reset the headspace and hold the action with one hand while tightening with the other. not sure how tight i got it. so i need to clamp the receiver, but then what if the barrel turns?? hmmm, dilema. the only thing i can think of is the bench vise im building to hold the barrel and another action wrench with the head that goes in the lugs to hold the receiver while i crank the nut or the kind that the guy is using in the video to hold it all while i tighten it. i think... i guess when i get the receiver clamped, ill see if the barrel spins with the nut. if so, its a double wrench job, nut and receiver lug wrench (if thats what its called...)
 
#11
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

The Midway vise's bolts are 1"-12. Larry is using a big wrench.

I've used the vise held down by c-clamps to remove two Win M-70 barrels. But have since bolted it to a huge bench and rock the whole structure to remove factory Rem 700 barrels. Really have to crank the vise closed to keep from spinning and leaving marks on the factory barrels. Go big.
 
#12
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

I have been building barrel vises with 1/2-13 threads and broke a few hardened bolts.

So I got some 7/8-14 threaded rod, the tap, the die, and lots of nuts.
So far all I have made with it is Rem700 action wrench and a few custom dies.

I also am trying to convert from 1/2" socket drive to 3/4" socket drive for tightening the barrel vise.

The big problem is not getting barrels ON at 100 foot pounds, it is getting rusted or glued barrels OFF at 1500 foot pounds of torque. Kroil helps on the threads. Cleaning the Aluminum barrel bushing with alcohol helps. Combining sitting on a cheater bar while swinging a 20 pound sledge hammer at the action wrench helps.
 
#14
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

When in doubt make it stout. No truer words have been spoken

use McMaster.com to order any odd hardware. You can get damn near anything you might need up to AND including kitchen sinks.
 
#15
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

http://www.coxhardware.com/usefulinfo/charts/7_btorque.htm

In a barrel vise, if the co efficient of friction between the Aluminum bushing and a .55" radius barrel is 50%, then to support 1500 pounds of torque [my fat butt bouncing on the action wrench 4' cheater bar] without the barrel sliping, the the clamping force needed would be ~ [1500] [12"/']/ [.55"][50%] = 65 k pounds.

You can see from the above link that, even with hardened bolts, that requires a thread larger than 1".

What does it all mean?
We can't always afford to do everything by the book, because of cost, weight, size, etc. So sometimes we over load things and see how long it lasts.
 
#16
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

Jeez Clark you are definately way smarter than me. -Really!-

My education level sucks but I still know stuff...

Axeman, your local hardware or automotive parts store should have a selection of grade eight bolts. A half inch grade 8 is much stronger than a 5/8 (hopefully? grade 2) all thread- They may even have 9/16" diameter.

Also grade 8 nuts and washers are almost as important as the bolt. Not a great place to 'cheap out'.

Larger area washers will spread out the clamping force. If the bars get bent or the bolt bends the actual clamping force will probably be reduced.

Fine thread is preferable to coarse thread for this type of high torque application but I wouldn't get hung up on it. What I would get hung up on is proper lubrication of the threads on these bolts, it might make or break the project.
 
#17
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

but one thing to remember in this application is that the barrel is already off and i am just trying to hold everything steady for a 30-50 ft-lbs of torque while i install a barrel.

all of the above advice is still valuable for someone that wants to build a vise like this for their applications, which may include a barrel/action combo that requires alot more clamping force than i am going to need.

i think i am going to use the all thread i have on hand and see in that will work for me, as this is really just a one time use item for me.

that being said, i may end up needing to bum or buy bigger bolts from someone thats offered or from one of the online sources listed. i appreciate the offers and info guys. i hope this will save someone the $75 that these presses/vises sell for. the two lengths of steel i bought were just $8 at the local yard. the way they sell steel here is anything under 8' in length is called drop steel and is sold by the pound, not by the foot. so i go in the back office area where its all kept and select what i want from the stuff thats there. i have saved huge amounts after learning this and always hit the drop bin before having steel cut from new stock and paying the "by the foot" price. after nuts, springs and washers, i dont think i will have more than $15 or $20 in this vise. ill post pics when i get it done. i am really thinking i should just go buy a drill press...
 
#18
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What I would get hung up on is proper lubrication of the threads on these bolts, it might make or break the project.
</div></div>

i just wanted to quote this as i agree. i lube the threads on my studs (2 @ 1/2-20) and stack two hardened flat washers with lube between them under each of the grade 8 nuts.
 
#20
Re: how big do you think these bolts are??

I looked in my bolt bin today.I have some 3/4-6 grade-8 and some better than grade-8 fine thread with heavy washers.The only grade-8 nuts that I could find are lock nuts but some regular ones may turn up.I think these will more than handle that 65k that was calculated.Let me know if you want them, Pete
 
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