How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

[CK_32]

So I have always loaded up precision match loads. Always trickled until my amount was just right. I have a RCBS powder thrower the cheaper handle one. I've used it and at first it was all over the place and now (using varget stick powder) it's closer but never SPOT ON.. sometimes I'll say 1gr off.

I know ball powder usually throws more consistant and Im going to be loading in the 1000's my 5.56 and 9mm brass for plinking nothing match grade. I've seen a bunch of processes where you throw powder and measure 10 times before you start to make sure your dispenser is where you need it then only measureevery 5 to see if it's still throwing around what you need... leaving 4 unknown. And if your 5th checked one is off you check and re do the last 4 if needed.

I understand this is a great way to hammer them out and get it done and I don't want to trickle 2k rounds of 9mm either.. But is this a safe and normal way to load plinking loads? Because to be quite honest i don't know if I'm fully comfortable with that due to my thrower being off 1gr or about sometimes with my varget.

Never loaded any other powder so I don't know how much more accurate it can get.. Also I have cleaned it out of all lube and ran it a couple hundred loads.

If you don't reload bulk like I'm asking please don't reply. I don't need what I would do or I thinks. I want the experienced guys to answer this. Thank you.

 

[problemchild]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

Change powders for the mass loaded ammo. Get a good ball powder. If I keep the level the same in the tube the powder stays spot on and will maybe throw one .1 miss out of 10. Keep in mind I polished my powder funnel and inside powder bars etc.
Example
42.4
42.4
42.4
42.4
42.4
42.3
42.4
42.4
42.4

For the 223 you could use wc846 or 844 surplus and its cheap too. I bought 32lbs and got free hazmat.

 

[wfjames22]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

I dont know if I am up to your "bulk reloader" standards, but I load 8000-10000 rifle rounds a year.

Having said that, I use a Chargemaster for "bulk" matchgrade ammo and a Dillon 650 for plinking/prairie dog ammo. Either way you are looking at spending some $$ (exponentially more on the Dillon/progressive setup) but that is the only way I can see loading bulk ammo. I use Varget and H4350 mainly in the "bulk" matchgrade ammo. I use Benchmark, TAC, Varget, RE-10X, W748, etc in the Dillon with great results. I started out using a RCBS Uniflow measure and then switched to Lyman 55's, but I quicky figured out that I could never get the results I wanted (quantity vs time).

 

[CK_32]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

Thanks for the replies guys.

And yes your in the standards. I just hate when guys who have reloaded maybe 50 rounds with their new reloading press try to give info and it's all I thinks or it should be.. But have no clue what they are talking about just what they have seen on YouTube.

 

[turbo54]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

There is seriously no need to individually weigh pistol charges - maybe for a long range revolver load - maybe!

I load 10k+ 45acp cartridges a year, and I weigh a charge once every month or two. My charge for a 200gr Montana Gold flatpoint is 5.5gr Titegroup. To set up my measure (this is done on a dillon 550), I throw 10 charges and weigh them together. If it isn't 55gr, I adjust and try again. When it does read 55gr for 10 throws, I start making ammo. I re-verify very seldom, unless I break down my setup. Additionally, I top off my powder hopper every time I put in a new primer tube, so that my powder level remains fairly constant.

For rifle cartridges with Varget, I find my RCBS Uniflow to be good to about 1gr from nominal. Usually better. I read an article about a bunch of magazine editors experimenting with the Uniflow to determine the most consistent method of throwing charges. They unanimously found that a slow, gentle and easy upstroke to the lever, followed by a smooth but gentle downstroke produced best results - I agree. I can usually hold +/- .5gr with the Varget, but there are definitely fliers.

That said, I know my rifle's max safe load in any weather is 45.5 Varget with a 175SMK. I've run a test that indicates that any combination of ammo with charges between 43.5-45.5 will all group inside an inch at 100. I would feel pretty good setting my Uniflow to throw 10 charges totaling 445gr, and letting her rip, perhaps re-verifying every 50 rounds or so.

It would be even better to do a new load workup usuing a ball powder such as 8208xbr. That stuff goes through a powder measure like quicksilver.

 

[hntbambi]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

For my defensive handguns, I load on a Dillon XL 650. I set the charge bar and it's good enough. I am not worried about nor am I good enough to worry about X-Ring acuracy.

When it comes to rifles, I do trickle all of my hunting ammo and while developing loads. For my bulk AR15 loads, I also ue the Dillon and use BL-C(2) which is a ball powder. I could probably shrink the groups a little (< 0.125 MOA) by trickling, but it's just good...it's good enough.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

First of all it is a measure not a thrower. Thrower is the term that those guys use that have loaded 50 rounds with their new reloading setup. I often want to know how far that thing will "throw" powder

I have an old Uniflow measure and it drops very consistent with Varget but then it is well seasoned having dropped many thousands of charges. If you are using Varget for precision loads then throw light and trickle up. I have never had a chgarge out a grain...maybe .2 but never more than that. If you are loading 9mm this measure should be plenty accurate for your needs, it has never failed me for pistol loads. For the 223 since you have indicated using them for plinking I would go with a ball powder like H335 or BLC-2 they will drop very precise from a Uniflow.

 

[turbo54]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

Armor: sounds like youve got a great uniflow! Mine is at least 25 years old. Ive had it for 4. It is certainly "well seasoned". Nonetheless, regardless of what method is used to throw charges with mine, Varget is only good to +/- 1 grain. A charge that far out is rare, but it happens. I figure Ive thrown at least 5000 Varget charges with it so far.

 

[coues7]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

Ball powder will make life a lot easier.

 

[Jeremybj]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

Here is a few suggestions. Get the baffle that goes in the RCBS thrower, it is like $7 and it will help make it more accurate. I agree with problem child, take a 10 throw average, my cheap little lee thrower is never off more than .1. lastly, use H335 or 748(I prefer H335). Ball powders work SO much better than stick in a thrower. My hand loaded 223 rounds are more accurate than anything I buy, and I loaded 500 of them just like you plan on doing!

 

[former naval person]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

As turbo says...the powder measure is more than accurate enough for pistol. 231 meters well as does Bullseye. Unique is a little harder to meter well. No need to weigh pistol...I doubt you could tell the difference. JMHO

 

[BBJones13]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

I use ball powders out of a 550 whenever possible. I have far more experience with bulk pistol loading. I check my throws (sorry to offend the guy above) for pistol before I start and then again every 25 rounds. I am trying to keep my bulk loads close to competition loads as possible.

9mm plinking - titegroup or Solo1000
5.56 - Tac

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

Turbo I have had my uniflow for at least 23 years I don't know what the deal is but it throws Varget just fine. Anything more coarse than Varget and forget it. Just for S4!ts and giggles today I took stock of all the charges I dropped for some 30-06 test loads. I was using H4831SC and my extreme spread was .6gr and half the charges dropped dead nuts I didn't think that was bad for a powder that will not meter well in any measure and I was using my small barrel and double dropping to get to 59.5gr. I loaded only 30 rounds, small sample I know but a sample none the less.
I am very consistent in my rythm using a measure so that could account for something. I also have it set up to drop the charge on the upstroke which is opposite to most loaders. One more thing....I use NO BAFFLE, haven't used one for years. You have to drop a pile of warm up charges to get it to settle in with no baffle but when you get it settled and keep the hopper 3/4 full I have found it is much more accurate.

 

[JimHanks]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

Like alot of others - use Dillon 550 for 45 ACP. For rifle - worked up a load with TAC for 5.56 and use a Harrell thrower. I can dump them right into case and never see over a .2 to .3 spread. Probably could do the same with the 231 for the 45 - never tried it because i have the 550.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

I use a Uniflow and find it to be accurate to +/- .4{ish} gr. when using the newer small kernel powders. When I run IMR 3031 through it, I get the bigger variances like +/- 1 gr.

There is going to be a certain amount of variance due to the powder, not the powder measure. How you overcome that needs to be done safely.

For best results loading that many 'plinking rounds I would use a ball powder. Look for the surplus powders, then the better brand name powders such as TAC, X-terminator, etc. You can load those up to about 1/2 gr. under the max and be pretty comfortable you aren't going to hurt anything. I do say you still want to work up and find the best 'node' and give yourself even more wiggle room for safety.

For loading up mass MATCH ammo, I use AA2015 in both .223 and .308 and RE-15 for 5.56. These powders have very small kernels and reliably get within +/- .3 gr. In the middle of an accuracy node which is 1.5 to 2 gr. under max it is very consistent. You can also use RE-15 for the .308 but I find in the larger case, and it being a high pressure powder, I tend to want to weigh them instead of just 'dump and go.'

 

[slowr1der]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

I doubt I load enough to be considered a bulk reloader, but I certainly load a lot more than 50 rounds a year, and I have some experience with various powders.

I too have a RCBS Uniflow powder measure and have the same problem with stick powders. Each charge usually varies quite a bit. Varget is one of the better metering stick powders, and I find that the charges usually don't vary more than .5 grains or so for me, but they may sometimes vary more. Like you I set it low and trickle in. With something like IMR 4831, it's a lot worse, and the charges are even further off.

Now when it comes to ball powders, I've found it to be very accurate. .1-.2 grains is usually the most variance I see, and with some ball powders each charge seems exact, with others, Like I said, it's that small variance. The ball powders I've used do much much better. I'd personally do some testing and measure several charges in a row to make sure your powder measure is throwing them consistent with a ball powder, and then if it is, I could see letting it go without weighing each one. I personally still weigh each one of mine just to make sure, but I'm a little bit of a perfectionist when it comes to my reloading and I try to get it exact, but usually the variance with ball powders isn't really enough to worry about anyway.

 

[TexIndian]

Re: How do you do your bulk? Powder question.

Agree with most everything above. I use a powder checker die (progressive press) for pistol loading just to make sure there are no problems. That's a safety thing, not an accuracy thing. There is a 'lockout' powder checking die you can buy but I've never tried one.

It's expensive but my Harrell powder measure gives more consistent charges than my Uniflows. And the clearly numbered settings are reliable and repeatable - you don't have to screw the cylinder in and out hunting for the right setting every time you use X powder; just set it where it was last time. Ball vs stick powder for bulk plinkers usually but not always.

Like mentioned above, a consistent technique for 'throwing' powder charges is just as important as anything else. If I have any kind of hitch in my technique (like crunching on a powder stick), that charge goes straight back in the hopper. And usually the next one, too. I fill up my biggest loading block with cases and keep a smooth rhythm going.

Call me anal, but I still weigh and trickle each round for hunting (defense) loads no matter how many I'm making. And the same when I want the best 'match' loads I can make. Many [most] folks say .1 or .2 won't make a difference and they may be right, but being exact on my best stuff just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.