I have read a few writeups and that is what made me go with Premier, so how does it really stack up?
Rifle Scopes how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
- Thread starter the once-ler
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Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
From someone who has used and owned several models of each, I would say it stacks up very well. I still find Schmidts to be my favorite scopes, but Premiers are a close second.
From someone who has used and owned several models of each, I would say it stacks up very well. I still find Schmidts to be my favorite scopes, but Premiers are a close second.
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
The Premier's are nice, but there's no doubt that the S&B is the king who everyone wants to be. The continuing drama of Premier for the last 2+ years makes them not an option for me.
At that level of scope there is S&B, but I'm very interested in getting behind the new Mark 8 Leupold, the Kahles 6-24 Tactical scope and the Hensoldt 3-26 when it comes to market. The mythical 5-25 NF is also cool, but who knows when we'll see one.
The Premier's are nice, but there's no doubt that the S&B is the king who everyone wants to be. The continuing drama of Premier for the last 2+ years makes them not an option for me.
At that level of scope there is S&B, but I'm very interested in getting behind the new Mark 8 Leupold, the Kahles 6-24 Tactical scope and the Hensoldt 3-26 when it comes to market. The mythical 5-25 NF is also cool, but who knows when we'll see one.
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
I like my Premier, been trying to break it for 3 years, and it still going strong, there good scopes, it seems like every 6 months or so a shit storm rolls there way, fueled by the none ya crowd, I was lucky to get my 5-25 for 2200 brand new before our vendor got screwed, is the S&B a better scope, I don't know, but I'll probably buy one for my next build next year.
I like my Premier, been trying to break it for 3 years, and it still going strong, there good scopes, it seems like every 6 months or so a shit storm rolls there way, fueled by the none ya crowd, I was lucky to get my 5-25 for 2200 brand new before our vendor got screwed, is the S&B a better scope, I don't know, but I'll probably buy one for my next build next year.
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
Both are great scopes I'm sure whatever one you get you will love. I have been running a 5-25x56mm Premier for about 3 years now with no issues. The Premier tacks spot on and the glass is amazing. With that said I love my S&B also.
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Mike @ CST
Both are great scopes I'm sure whatever one you get you will love. I have been running a 5-25x56mm Premier for about 3 years now with no issues. The Premier tacks spot on and the glass is amazing. With that said I love my S&B also.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YK19des7CYM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Mike @ CST
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
I use Premier. I sold my Bender.
I like Bender, but to me, Premier glass is brighter and more resolute. I live the turrets, and the placement of the illumination knob creates a bunch more real estate for ring placement. I also prefer Premiers very fine control of parallax.
I use Premier. I sold my Bender.
I like Bender, but to me, Premier glass is brighter and more resolute. I live the turrets, and the placement of the illumination knob creates a bunch more real estate for ring placement. I also prefer Premiers very fine control of parallax.
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
I have never looked thru a PMII but we do have an older S&B Classic model we bought in Germany many years ago but this new Premier I have looks incredible, but it is still a different "look"
Maybe because this S&B is a "hunting" scope makes it different.
I have never looked thru a PMII but we do have an older S&B Classic model we bought in Germany many years ago but this new Premier I have looks incredible, but it is still a different "look"
Maybe because this S&B is a "hunting" scope makes it different.
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
I purchased one at their initial offering. I can't bad mouth but I sold it after a few months and purchased another S&B. It had more to do with my familiarity with S&B's than anything. I have been behind them since they still impressed.
I purchased one at their initial offering. I can't bad mouth but I sold it after a few months and purchased another S&B. It had more to do with my familiarity with S&B's than anything. I have been behind them since they still impressed.
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
so mark you did like it? how do you think it compared glasswise?
so mark you did like it? how do you think it compared glasswise?
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
schmidt and bender > premier reticles... you know the company is stable, i'm not saying premier isn't, but it's anyones guess as to what exactly is up.
optically, when we put the two side by side when we carried them, we found the schmidt better optically. about the only thing premier has on schmidt and bender is cost,
schmidt and bender > premier reticles... you know the company is stable, i'm not saying premier isn't, but it's anyones guess as to what exactly is up.
optically, when we put the two side by side when we carried them, we found the schmidt better optically. about the only thing premier has on schmidt and bender is cost,
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
what do you mean by "what is up"? is there something fishy going on with them? I thought I read somewhere that SB was in League with PR or using their glass??
what do you mean by "what is up"? is there something fishy going on with them? I thought I read somewhere that SB was in League with PR or using their glass??
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
The USMC contract Premier got a few years back was using S&B 3-12x50 PMII scopes with their reticle in it. Other than that there is no connection with product. The company that designed the Premier, Optronika, is made up of people who left S&B and started their own company.
Look down the page some a few days back and look for a thread called "Premier Selling Out?" and Paul from Premier adresses the state of their business.
ETA link
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3417047#Post3417047
The USMC contract Premier got a few years back was using S&B 3-12x50 PMII scopes with their reticle in it. Other than that there is no connection with product. The company that designed the Premier, Optronika, is made up of people who left S&B and started their own company.
Look down the page some a few days back and look for a thread called "Premier Selling Out?" and Paul from Premier adresses the state of their business.
ETA link
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3417047#Post3417047
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
I have a Premier 3-15x50 Light Tactical.
I put it through a great deal and it is a great scope. I like all of the features and the mil/mil feature.
Having said that, I have never had a S&B and I think I am going to get their 5-25x56.
I have a Premier 3-15x50 Light Tactical.
I put it through a great deal and it is a great scope. I like all of the features and the mil/mil feature.
Having said that, I have never had a S&B and I think I am going to get their 5-25x56.
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
Rob, the connection is Optronika who makes the scope for Premier. They came from S&B... as well I believe, and someone can correct me if I am wrong, but Hans Bender is part of Optronika or at least has some interest in the company (optronika not premier) .
Rob, the connection is Optronika who makes the scope for Premier. They came from S&B... as well I believe, and someone can correct me if I am wrong, but Hans Bender is part of Optronika or at least has some interest in the company (optronika not premier) .
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
I heard some buzz from Marines that there was some kind of administrative issue with S&B and because the Marines were already working with Premier for reticles, they opted into the Premier scope too, so S&B / Marine corps is done, but that might not be 100% accurate...
The individual I talked to thought it was kind of stupid because very recently the Marine corps finally was running the same optic (S&B) on all rifles having recently replaced the last Unertle 10x's, and now this means another system is also present.
I heard some buzz from Marines that there was some kind of administrative issue with S&B and because the Marines were already working with Premier for reticles, they opted into the Premier scope too, so S&B / Marine corps is done, but that might not be 100% accurate...
The individual I talked to thought it was kind of stupid because very recently the Marine corps finally was running the same optic (S&B) on all rifles having recently replaced the last Unertle 10x's, and now this means another system is also present.
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
How I was lead to understand the change at the USMC was this,
The person (Marine Officer) who replaced the guy that put the S&B in place, was of no where near the same standard. Basically an Officer who was once enlisted as a Sniper vs one who was strictly supply/logistics. When Premier and S&B parted ways, there was two options:
1. The USMC could start the process all over again for a Day Scope or;
2. Change the current contract to read "Premier" and replace the M8541 with the Heritage when necessary.
After a long delay, the easier route was to simply put the Premier in place which is why you see Marines using Premiers. Now, my understanding, and this is all second hand, it didn't necessarily change the contract or give premier a new one, just adding in the ability to use the Premier Heritage as a replacement for the M8541.
So it was the path of least resistance.
But it is true they (USMC) are running both at this time, how that flushes out over time, it is hard to say, especially you when consider the status of Premier.
Militaries like clean supply lines and the ability to get replacements in bulk. As well with everything changing hands across country lines, that may sway a look at the decisions of the past.
How I was lead to understand the change at the USMC was this,
The person (Marine Officer) who replaced the guy that put the S&B in place, was of no where near the same standard. Basically an Officer who was once enlisted as a Sniper vs one who was strictly supply/logistics. When Premier and S&B parted ways, there was two options:
1. The USMC could start the process all over again for a Day Scope or;
2. Change the current contract to read "Premier" and replace the M8541 with the Heritage when necessary.
After a long delay, the easier route was to simply put the Premier in place which is why you see Marines using Premiers. Now, my understanding, and this is all second hand, it didn't necessarily change the contract or give premier a new one, just adding in the ability to use the Premier Heritage as a replacement for the M8541.
So it was the path of least resistance.
But it is true they (USMC) are running both at this time, how that flushes out over time, it is hard to say, especially you when consider the status of Premier.
Militaries like clean supply lines and the ability to get replacements in bulk. As well with everything changing hands across country lines, that may sway a look at the decisions of the past.
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How I was lead to understand the change at the USMC was this,
The person (Marine Officer) who replaced the guy that put the S&B in place, was of no where near the same standard. Basically an Officer who was once enlisted as a Sniper vs one who was strictly supply/logistics. When Premier and S&B parted ways, there was two options:
1. The USMC could start the process all over again for a Day Scope or;
2. Change the current contract to read "Premier" and replace the M8541 with the Heritage when necessary.
After a long delay, the easier route was to simply put the Premier in place which is why you see Marines using Premiers. Now, my understanding, and this is all second hand, it didn't necessarily change the contract or give premier a new one, just adding in the ability to use the Premier Heritage as a replacement for the M8541.
So it was the path of least resistance.
But it is true they (USMC) are running both at this time, how that flushes out over time, it is hard to say, especially you when consider the status of Premier.
Militaries like clean supply lines and the ability to get replacements in bulk. As well with everything changing hands across country lines, that may sway a look at the decisions of the past. </div></div>
That sounds about right as far as procurement goes in the military. Most of the time people who get to make the important decisions dont have a clue about what they are deciding on, but think they do.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How I was lead to understand the change at the USMC was this,
The person (Marine Officer) who replaced the guy that put the S&B in place, was of no where near the same standard. Basically an Officer who was once enlisted as a Sniper vs one who was strictly supply/logistics. When Premier and S&B parted ways, there was two options:
1. The USMC could start the process all over again for a Day Scope or;
2. Change the current contract to read "Premier" and replace the M8541 with the Heritage when necessary.
After a long delay, the easier route was to simply put the Premier in place which is why you see Marines using Premiers. Now, my understanding, and this is all second hand, it didn't necessarily change the contract or give premier a new one, just adding in the ability to use the Premier Heritage as a replacement for the M8541.
So it was the path of least resistance.
But it is true they (USMC) are running both at this time, how that flushes out over time, it is hard to say, especially you when consider the status of Premier.
Militaries like clean supply lines and the ability to get replacements in bulk. As well with everything changing hands across country lines, that may sway a look at the decisions of the past. </div></div>
That sounds about right as far as procurement goes in the military. Most of the time people who get to make the important decisions dont have a clue about what they are deciding on, but think they do.
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
Well you have to consider the Klein Reticle pre-dates the Gen 2 reticle, so the fact that S&B already had the Klein in its inventory, it sort of makes sense. Premier references the Klein in their patent here in the US.
In my opinion, while similar, I think the Klein is better, it's a bit finer, has a more distinctive separation between the .5 mil and the Mil Dot than the Premier version. I have been running Klein reticles since before the Gen 2 was out.
The issue was really the writing that S&B saw on the wall that the USMC did not... that was sort of born out in the reality of the situation and why there is a question today as to the company status.
Well you have to consider the Klein Reticle pre-dates the Gen 2 reticle, so the fact that S&B already had the Klein in its inventory, it sort of makes sense. Premier references the Klein in their patent here in the US.
In my opinion, while similar, I think the Klein is better, it's a bit finer, has a more distinctive separation between the .5 mil and the Mil Dot than the Premier version. I have been running Klein reticles since before the Gen 2 was out.
The issue was really the writing that S&B saw on the wall that the USMC did not... that was sort of born out in the reality of the situation and why there is a question today as to the company status.
Re: how do you guys think Premier compares to S&B
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The original USMC Schmidt-Benders had Premier Reticles. Like Leupold, S&B figured they could cut out the middleman and asked if they could shoulder out the Premier brand.
The Marines came back fairly directly -- "You do understand how <span style="font-style: italic">Semper Fidelis</span> translates to, don't you?" Many military buyers have a certain loyalty to folks who treat them right if their gear has treated them well. </div></div>
Unfortunately, they couldn't distinguish who treated them right!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The original USMC Schmidt-Benders had Premier Reticles. Like Leupold, S&B figured they could cut out the middleman and asked if they could shoulder out the Premier brand.
The Marines came back fairly directly -- "You do understand how <span style="font-style: italic">Semper Fidelis</span> translates to, don't you?" Many military buyers have a certain loyalty to folks who treat them right if their gear has treated them well. </div></div>
Unfortunately, they couldn't distinguish who treated them right!
