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Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
crappy enough said?
crappy enough said?
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
Silver soldered.
Silver soldered.
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
sorry what i said was harsh, its ok for most uses for for tactical rifles i have mine reinforced with a couple screws or tig welded or both.
sorry what i said was harsh, its ok for most uses for for tactical rifles i have mine reinforced with a couple screws or tig welded or both.
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
The reason I ask is that I called Holland Guns today and inquired about their tactical bolt handle. It's a one piece design that is longer and has a ball end like a savage. When I asked how it was attached to the bolt they said silver soldered. I wanted to make sure that is strong enough. I silver solder pipe joints but never anything structural that's under a leveraged load.
Are all bolt handles attached this way?
The reason I ask is that I called Holland Guns today and inquired about their tactical bolt handle. It's a one piece design that is longer and has a ball end like a savage. When I asked how it was attached to the bolt they said silver soldered. I wanted to make sure that is strong enough. I silver solder pipe joints but never anything structural that's under a leveraged load.
Are all bolt handles attached this way?
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sorry what i said was harsh, its ok for most uses for for tactical rifles i have mine reinforced with a couple screws or tig welded or both. </div></div>
Any chance you have pics of your reinforcements? Thanks.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sorry what i said was harsh, its ok for most uses for for tactical rifles i have mine reinforced with a couple screws or tig welded or both. </div></div>
Any chance you have pics of your reinforcements? Thanks.
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
I've seen more than a few come off in the field...mine are tigged.
I've seen more than a few come off in the field...mine are tigged.
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason I ask is that I called Holland Guns today and inquired about their tactical bolt handle. It's a one piece design that is longer and has a ball end like a savage. When I asked how it was attached to the bolt they said silver soldered. I wanted to make sure that is strong enough. I silver solder pipe joints but never anything structural that's under a leveraged load.
Are all bolt handles attached this way?
</div></div>
No that is not strong enough, and it more commonly referred to silver brazing today.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason I ask is that I called Holland Guns today and inquired about their tactical bolt handle. It's a one piece design that is longer and has a ball end like a savage. When I asked how it was attached to the bolt they said silver soldered. I wanted to make sure that is strong enough. I silver solder pipe joints but never anything structural that's under a leveraged load.
Are all bolt handles attached this way?
</div></div>
No that is not strong enough, and it more commonly referred to silver brazing today.
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason I ask is that I called Holland Guns today and inquired about their tactical bolt handle. It's a one piece design that is longer and has a ball end like a savage. When I asked how it was attached to the bolt they said silver soldered. I wanted to make sure that is strong enough. I silver solder pipe joints but never anything structural that's under a leveraged load.
Are all bolt handles attached this way?
</div></div>
No that is not strong enough, and it more commonly referred to silver brazing today. </div></div>
You mean the factory job is inadequate right from the start?
I use silphos rod on refrigeration and condensate lines. How does that compare to the factory procedure?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason I ask is that I called Holland Guns today and inquired about their tactical bolt handle. It's a one piece design that is longer and has a ball end like a savage. When I asked how it was attached to the bolt they said silver soldered. I wanted to make sure that is strong enough. I silver solder pipe joints but never anything structural that's under a leveraged load.
Are all bolt handles attached this way?
</div></div>
No that is not strong enough, and it more commonly referred to silver brazing today. </div></div>
You mean the factory job is inadequate right from the start?
I use silphos rod on refrigeration and condensate lines. How does that compare to the factory procedure?
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
many bolts are now one piece which is obviously the strongest, most competent smiths can add a couple 8-40 screws into the handle. sorry don't have any close ups. shouldn't cost more than $50+shipping. I think r&d precision will reinforce it.
many bolts are now one piece which is obviously the strongest, most competent smiths can add a couple 8-40 screws into the handle. sorry don't have any close ups. shouldn't cost more than $50+shipping. I think r&d precision will reinforce it.
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You mean the factory job is inadequate right from the start?
I use silphos rod on refrigeration and condensate lines. How does that compare to the factory procedure?
</div></div>
Maybe, maybe not. You are talking two different types of silver solder or silver brazing. One for plumbing and one for gunsmith.
In most cases the factory job is fine, some times it's not but most of the time when it fails it's because someone took a 2x4 to it to open a stuck bolt after shooting high pressure loads.
The silver soldier you are referring to is low strength the stuff for the bolt handles is high strength like 85,000 psi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You mean the factory job is inadequate right from the start?
I use silphos rod on refrigeration and condensate lines. How does that compare to the factory procedure?
</div></div>
Maybe, maybe not. You are talking two different types of silver solder or silver brazing. One for plumbing and one for gunsmith.
In most cases the factory job is fine, some times it's not but most of the time when it fails it's because someone took a 2x4 to it to open a stuck bolt after shooting high pressure loads.
The silver soldier you are referring to is low strength the stuff for the bolt handles is high strength like 85,000 psi
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You mean the factory job is inadequate right from the start?
I use silphos rod on refrigeration and condensate lines. How does that compare to the factory procedure?
</div></div>
Maybe, maybe not. You are talking to different types of silver solder or silver brazing. One for plumbing and one for gunsmith.
In most cases the factory job is fine, some times it's not but most of the time when it fails it's because someone took a 2x4 to it to open a stuck bolt after shooting high pressure loads.
<span style="color: #3366FF">Ok that's what I need to know. Then having a different handle installed the same as factory would be fine.</span>
The silver soldier you are referring to is low strength the stuff for the bolt handles is high strength like 85,000 psi
<span style="color: #3366FF">Actually what I was talking about was not sweating copper pipe such as on a water line. I was talking about using a rod and oxy acetylene to fit high pressure refer lines or high temp steam condensate pipe. I'm sure what ever filler they use for the bolt job would be of a different composition.
On another note- I need to find someone that can do this job with a faster turn around than the 4 weeks Holland Guns quoted me, thoughts?</span></div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You mean the factory job is inadequate right from the start?
I use silphos rod on refrigeration and condensate lines. How does that compare to the factory procedure?
</div></div>
Maybe, maybe not. You are talking to different types of silver solder or silver brazing. One for plumbing and one for gunsmith.
In most cases the factory job is fine, some times it's not but most of the time when it fails it's because someone took a 2x4 to it to open a stuck bolt after shooting high pressure loads.
<span style="color: #3366FF">Ok that's what I need to know. Then having a different handle installed the same as factory would be fine.</span>
The silver soldier you are referring to is low strength the stuff for the bolt handles is high strength like 85,000 psi
<span style="color: #3366FF">Actually what I was talking about was not sweating copper pipe such as on a water line. I was talking about using a rod and oxy acetylene to fit high pressure refer lines or high temp steam condensate pipe. I'm sure what ever filler they use for the bolt job would be of a different composition.
On another note- I need to find someone that can do this job with a faster turn around than the 4 weeks Holland Guns quoted me, thoughts?</span></div></div>
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
If it's brazed I wouldn't be worried too much about it. Granted it's not nearly as strong as a welded joint, but the tensile strength of brazed joints is up there as well.
If it's brazed I wouldn't be worried too much about it. Granted it's not nearly as strong as a welded joint, but the tensile strength of brazed joints is up there as well.
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
Let me ask why do you want the Holland handle? Is it because it's longer?
And be advised it is best, and I recommend, to send the action along when any new bolt handle is attached to be sure of bolt timing and a few other things.
Let me ask why do you want the Holland handle? Is it because it's longer?
And be advised it is best, and I recommend, to send the action along when any new bolt handle is attached to be sure of bolt timing and a few other things.
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let me ask why do you want the Holland handle? Is it because it's longer?
<span style="color: #3366FF">Yes because it's longer and I like the ball style end. (Why did that sound sick?)I also like the idea that it's one piece.</span>
And be advised it is best, and I recommend, to send the action along when any new bolt handle is attached to be sure of bolt timing and a few other things.
<span style="color: #3366FF">Will do, thanks!</span></div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let me ask why do you want the Holland handle? Is it because it's longer?
<span style="color: #3366FF">Yes because it's longer and I like the ball style end. (Why did that sound sick?)I also like the idea that it's one piece.</span>
And be advised it is best, and I recommend, to send the action along when any new bolt handle is attached to be sure of bolt timing and a few other things.
<span style="color: #3366FF">Will do, thanks!</span></div></div>
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
This subject has been lurking in my mind for a few years. Those of us who have been 'Hide members for a long time remember a certain double use of torx or allen bolts to retain the bolt handle to the bolt.
I'll refer this to HateCA:
Is this process still 'in vogue' or is there another way that has been tested and used with the newer rifle builds?
This subject has been lurking in my mind for a few years. Those of us who have been 'Hide members for a long time remember a certain double use of torx or allen bolts to retain the bolt handle to the bolt.
I'll refer this to HateCA:
Is this process still 'in vogue' or is there another way that has been tested and used with the newer rifle builds?
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
I think messing with the bolt is a problem for a few reasons.
If you start drilling and threading the attachment area, you could weaken the attachment. If you weld or braze, you will likely cause some distortion, ruining an action trueing job. If you want to change geometry of the handle, it can be cut off and threaded, then a new one screwed on. This leaves the weld intact. Some of these things seem to be perfect solutions to non-existant problems. The USMC leaves them alone and that is good enough for me. I do like a once peice forged handle for my 416 Rigby Mauser, as I shoot elephants with it, but if not in a war zone, it is a bit of overkill for a tactical match, deer hunting or target shooting. JMO
I think messing with the bolt is a problem for a few reasons.
If you start drilling and threading the attachment area, you could weaken the attachment. If you weld or braze, you will likely cause some distortion, ruining an action trueing job. If you want to change geometry of the handle, it can be cut off and threaded, then a new one screwed on. This leaves the weld intact. Some of these things seem to be perfect solutions to non-existant problems. The USMC leaves them alone and that is good enough for me. I do like a once peice forged handle for my 416 Rigby Mauser, as I shoot elephants with it, but if not in a war zone, it is a bit of overkill for a tactical match, deer hunting or target shooting. JMO
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
The factory handle has always worked for me.
Then again, I don't run tight chambers or hot handloads. If I test a load and get a hard bolt lift that is a BAD load for me.
I have never see the bolt handle on an M40A1 or a LE 700 busted off when shooting factory ammo. That's not to say it doesn't happen. I just have never seen it.
Now if I were building a custom rifle, a one-piece bolt body would be request. I would be more worried about busting it in a fall, than when cycling the action.
The factory handle has always worked for me.
Then again, I don't run tight chambers or hot handloads. If I test a load and get a hard bolt lift that is a BAD load for me.
I have never see the bolt handle on an M40A1 or a LE 700 busted off when shooting factory ammo. That's not to say it doesn't happen. I just have never seen it.
Now if I were building a custom rifle, a one-piece bolt body would be request. I would be more worried about busting it in a fall, than when cycling the action.
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The factory handle has always worked for me.
Then again, I don't run tight chambers or hot handloads. If I test a load and get a hard bolt lift that is a BAD load for me.
I have never see the bolt handle on an M40A1 or a LE 700 busted off when shooting factory ammo. That's not to say it doesn't happen. I just have never seen it.
Now if I were building a custom rifle, a one-piece bolt body would be request. I would be more worried about busting it in a fall, than when cycling the action. </div></div>
i have to agree with you on that. the factory handle is probably fine for what it was intended to do. when we start running hot loads causing sticky bolts and add a long-ass bolt knobs increasing the leverage, they are bound to come off more frequently. after watching a few minutes of the tbrc videos, i couldn't believe how many people were having trouble opening their bolts.
a one piece bolt is the way to go for a custom, no doubt. that is a big chunck of raw material to machine away to end up with a finised bolt. lots of scrap and lots of machine time equals an expense most mass production companies can't/won't afford.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The factory handle has always worked for me.
Then again, I don't run tight chambers or hot handloads. If I test a load and get a hard bolt lift that is a BAD load for me.
I have never see the bolt handle on an M40A1 or a LE 700 busted off when shooting factory ammo. That's not to say it doesn't happen. I just have never seen it.
Now if I were building a custom rifle, a one-piece bolt body would be request. I would be more worried about busting it in a fall, than when cycling the action. </div></div>
i have to agree with you on that. the factory handle is probably fine for what it was intended to do. when we start running hot loads causing sticky bolts and add a long-ass bolt knobs increasing the leverage, they are bound to come off more frequently. after watching a few minutes of the tbrc videos, i couldn't believe how many people were having trouble opening their bolts.
a one piece bolt is the way to go for a custom, no doubt. that is a big chunck of raw material to machine away to end up with a finised bolt. lots of scrap and lots of machine time equals an expense most mass production companies can't/won't afford.
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
I'm just a kid and I have seen 3 fall off with factory ammo.
If you want to read about a few thousand more, do a google search on, "remington bolt handle fell off"
I'm just a kid and I have seen 3 fall off with factory ammo.
If you want to read about a few thousand more, do a google search on, "remington bolt handle fell off"
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
they just fell off?
i've seen one factory remington handle come off and one aftermarket come off. the factory one came off after being hit with a blunt object in an attempt to open a bolt on a stuck case. the aftermarket one fell off in my hand while i was cycling the bolt. it was a bad solder job and the installer repaired it quickly.
i probably just don't spend enough time around bolt action rifles to see many bolt handles just fall off without being mistreated.
they just fell off?
i've seen one factory remington handle come off and one aftermarket come off. the factory one came off after being hit with a blunt object in an attempt to open a bolt on a stuck case. the aftermarket one fell off in my hand while i was cycling the bolt. it was a bad solder job and the installer repaired it quickly.
i probably just don't spend enough time around bolt action rifles to see many bolt handles just fall off without being mistreated.
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
One of the reasons how the load development you do is very important. If you find yourself having to use force to open the bolt, then you need to find a new load that doesnt infringe on the weapons operation. This is where the caution goes into the rounds you use. The right load will give the best accuracy, velocity and show no signs of pressure. Sounds blatantly obvious but I see lots of guys in the reloading section cramming as much powder into a cases, getting obvious pressure signs, and sticking with it. "The bolt sticks a little" to me is not acceptable for ammunition. Every time to have to "massage" the bolt open means you are putting unnecessay stress on parts not meant to take it.
Having a one piece bolt, tigging, tapped and screwed down may allow you to run a hotter round, but putting a little more effort into the load you use will save time and money on a new bolt and inventing a solution.
Someone said that if the USMC is running a factory bolt/handle then its good enough for them and I agree. If the Marines havent had problems with em breaking, which they are good at, then no one else should have as much issue. Not saying the factory doesnt put out a bad one now and then, or one happens to bust off during normal use. But like I said. Remington didnt build it to be beaten open due to hot bullets.
One of the reasons how the load development you do is very important. If you find yourself having to use force to open the bolt, then you need to find a new load that doesnt infringe on the weapons operation. This is where the caution goes into the rounds you use. The right load will give the best accuracy, velocity and show no signs of pressure. Sounds blatantly obvious but I see lots of guys in the reloading section cramming as much powder into a cases, getting obvious pressure signs, and sticking with it. "The bolt sticks a little" to me is not acceptable for ammunition. Every time to have to "massage" the bolt open means you are putting unnecessay stress on parts not meant to take it.
Having a one piece bolt, tigging, tapped and screwed down may allow you to run a hotter round, but putting a little more effort into the load you use will save time and money on a new bolt and inventing a solution.
Someone said that if the USMC is running a factory bolt/handle then its good enough for them and I agree. If the Marines havent had problems with em breaking, which they are good at, then no one else should have as much issue. Not saying the factory doesnt put out a bad one now and then, or one happens to bust off during normal use. But like I said. Remington didnt build it to be beaten open due to hot bullets.
Re: How is a Rem 700 bolt handle attached...
Nate at Straight Shot Gunsmithig has a few videos on his site of http://www.straightshotgunsmithing.com/
At the bottom of the list is a hot button called "tig welding bolt handles" He does a side by side strength test of silver solder verses his tig welded handles. It's an eye opener.
Farther up on the page he has another button leading to a 13 minute video about where to locate your handle as the factory usually doesn't get it as good as it can get.
Nate at Straight Shot Gunsmithig has a few videos on his site of http://www.straightshotgunsmithing.com/
At the bottom of the list is a hot button called "tig welding bolt handles" He does a side by side strength test of silver solder verses his tig welded handles. It's an eye opener.
Farther up on the page he has another button leading to a 13 minute video about where to locate your handle as the factory usually doesn't get it as good as it can get.
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