Type dials and an illuminated reticle? I would LOOOOVE to have three of these!!! I hope many feel like me and they will see this and possibly make it. I know illuminated 4-14 are in the works because Nick told me so but I didn't ask about M3 type adjustments....
Rifle Scopes How many would like to see a Falcon 4-14 with M3
Re: How many would like to see a Falcon 4-14 with M3
I'd be all for that, the trend of super tall huge tactical knobs is a joke, especially when most of them are not using the extra space either for increased grip or knob markings.
I'd take it a step further and go to a knob similar in height to the M3 but even larger Dia. for elevation to get more clicks per rotation.
However, last I checked with falcon (a couple weeks ago) they had no plans to make a low profile knob option.
I'd be all for that, the trend of super tall huge tactical knobs is a joke, especially when most of them are not using the extra space either for increased grip or knob markings.
I'd take it a step further and go to a knob similar in height to the M3 but even larger Dia. for elevation to get more clicks per rotation.
However, last I checked with falcon (a couple weeks ago) they had no plans to make a low profile knob option.
Re: How many would like to see a Falcon 4-14 with M3
the shape of the m3 is fine, but IMHO adjusment is too coarse at 1 moa per click. You might think it handy for dialing long ranges, but when your zero falls in between clicks, then you will understand the frustration.
the shape of the m3 is fine, but IMHO adjusment is too coarse at 1 moa per click. You might think it handy for dialing long ranges, but when your zero falls in between clicks, then you will understand the frustration.
Re: How many would like to see a Falcon 4-14 with M3
1/2 MOA or .1 mil adjustments would probably be a nice compromise and would be a more popular choice.
The 1 MOA M3 knobs are great on a gun where you don't need to hit a 4" circle at 800 yards. It's not designed for target shooting, it's fast, and it's accurate. Even at 1000 yards 1 MOA adjustments get you +/- 5.25" or so and that's close enough for what the scope was designed for. Having used one for awhile now I really like it, no more counting revolutions or 58 clicks, just dial to the mark, and it does not take long shooting one to know that the 800 mark is 3" low etc. so you add a little holdover/under. Shooting steel at various distances it really shines in it's speed and convenience.
I do agree the zero issue can be annoying, especially if you want to use the yardage on the knob. For example if you are 1/2" low at your 100 zero, if you dial the knob to 800 you are 4" low assuming the ballistics on the knob match the gun/load perfect. However, it's simply what you give up for being able to dial to 1000 in less than one revolution. If they went to 1/2 moa they would need what 72-76 clicks to get to 1000 in one revolution, a really big dia. knob would do that as well.
I think the idea of a 1 moa adjustment scope is great, the implementation is where it's limited as is true for every ballistic pre-defined product out there be it a reticule or a knob. The best way to use the M3 knobs is to set up your gun load, find out what clicks get you where and then order a custom elevation knob that matches your dope exactly. Even if they somehow figured out how to let you fine tune the zero to get it perfect at 100 and then engage the 1 moa clicks, it would probably still not be perfect to 1000 on 99% of the setups it was installed on.
For most uses though, I think a 1/2 moa knob is great, 1/4 moa is too fine, and 1 moa is very purpose specific. I'm actually surprised no one has come out with a .2 mil adjustment scope. that comes out to what ~.75 moa per click. It might also be a nice setup for specific uses.
The other thing I do not like about leupolds M3 implementation is you cannot dial below your set zero. Once you set the knob up you cannot have any give factor to go lower than zero unlike the NF setup. While I'm sure they did this to keep guys from turning more than one revolution on the knob, it's annoying if you change loads or need to adjust zero you must remove the whole knob, you just can't loosen the screws and reset the knob. I can see not wanting to let you go a lot of clicks, but it would be nice to have say 2-4 moa below set zero, again this can be accomplished with a custom elevation knob.
1/2 MOA or .1 mil adjustments would probably be a nice compromise and would be a more popular choice.
The 1 MOA M3 knobs are great on a gun where you don't need to hit a 4" circle at 800 yards. It's not designed for target shooting, it's fast, and it's accurate. Even at 1000 yards 1 MOA adjustments get you +/- 5.25" or so and that's close enough for what the scope was designed for. Having used one for awhile now I really like it, no more counting revolutions or 58 clicks, just dial to the mark, and it does not take long shooting one to know that the 800 mark is 3" low etc. so you add a little holdover/under. Shooting steel at various distances it really shines in it's speed and convenience.
I do agree the zero issue can be annoying, especially if you want to use the yardage on the knob. For example if you are 1/2" low at your 100 zero, if you dial the knob to 800 you are 4" low assuming the ballistics on the knob match the gun/load perfect. However, it's simply what you give up for being able to dial to 1000 in less than one revolution. If they went to 1/2 moa they would need what 72-76 clicks to get to 1000 in one revolution, a really big dia. knob would do that as well.
I think the idea of a 1 moa adjustment scope is great, the implementation is where it's limited as is true for every ballistic pre-defined product out there be it a reticule or a knob. The best way to use the M3 knobs is to set up your gun load, find out what clicks get you where and then order a custom elevation knob that matches your dope exactly. Even if they somehow figured out how to let you fine tune the zero to get it perfect at 100 and then engage the 1 moa clicks, it would probably still not be perfect to 1000 on 99% of the setups it was installed on.
For most uses though, I think a 1/2 moa knob is great, 1/4 moa is too fine, and 1 moa is very purpose specific. I'm actually surprised no one has come out with a .2 mil adjustment scope. that comes out to what ~.75 moa per click. It might also be a nice setup for specific uses.
The other thing I do not like about leupolds M3 implementation is you cannot dial below your set zero. Once you set the knob up you cannot have any give factor to go lower than zero unlike the NF setup. While I'm sure they did this to keep guys from turning more than one revolution on the knob, it's annoying if you change loads or need to adjust zero you must remove the whole knob, you just can't loosen the screws and reset the knob. I can see not wanting to let you go a lot of clicks, but it would be nice to have say 2-4 moa below set zero, again this can be accomplished with a custom elevation knob.
Re: How many would like to see a Falcon 4-14 with M3
Can't tell if he meant M3 form factor or 1 MOA or both.
I just want the form factor.
Can't tell if he meant M3 form factor or 1 MOA or both.
I just want the form factor.
Re: How many would like to see a Falcon 4-14 with M3
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
For most uses though, I think a 1/2 moa knob is great, 1/4 moa is too fine, and 1 moa is very purpose specific. I'm actually surprised no one has come out with a .2 mil adjustment scope. that comes out to what ~.75 moa per click. It might also be a nice setup for specific uses.
</div></div>
I've seen an S&B PMII setup with .2MRAD
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
For most uses though, I think a 1/2 moa knob is great, 1/4 moa is too fine, and 1 moa is very purpose specific. I'm actually surprised no one has come out with a .2 mil adjustment scope. that comes out to what ~.75 moa per click. It might also be a nice setup for specific uses.
</div></div>
I've seen an S&B PMII setup with .2MRAD
Re: How many would like to see a Falcon 4-14 with M3
i'd be cool with the half moa clicks. One is just too much for target shooting. I'm with you on it's use todd, that's partly why the military chose it for what they do. But most of us don't have a need to shoot at people, thank God, and those who shoot steel also shoot paper sometimes (typically, not everyone i'm sure)... so for the paper puncher crowd it isn't that helpful.
smacking steel at long range could make it handy, depending on the size of the plates. Personally, I use water filled gallon jugs because i don't have steel to use. It REALLY makes you be on with your calls, cause those fuckers are tiny at long range. I feel like it has really helped me to focus when shooting, and i don't always hit them, but I like the challenge.
Honestly, I just upgraded both of my tactical rigs to mil/mil, and i like that WAY better.
i'd be cool with the half moa clicks. One is just too much for target shooting. I'm with you on it's use todd, that's partly why the military chose it for what they do. But most of us don't have a need to shoot at people, thank God, and those who shoot steel also shoot paper sometimes (typically, not everyone i'm sure)... so for the paper puncher crowd it isn't that helpful.
smacking steel at long range could make it handy, depending on the size of the plates. Personally, I use water filled gallon jugs because i don't have steel to use. It REALLY makes you be on with your calls, cause those fuckers are tiny at long range. I feel like it has really helped me to focus when shooting, and i don't always hit them, but I like the challenge.
Honestly, I just upgraded both of my tactical rigs to mil/mil, and i like that WAY better.
