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Gunsmithing How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

300snipe

300snipe

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 22, 2009
175
1
Northern Nevada, NV
Hey all,

I'm trying to get my younger brother into a productive employment path he is interested in being a gunsmith. It's either that or he's interested in what I do, which is database engineering and technical operations architecture (totally different direction for education).

So, how much on average do gunsmiths make? I know I pay them a lot when I have things worked on but that's just one customer.

Any input would be appreciated.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

A one man shop, not as much as you think after you factor in tooling, machines, insurance, federal and local license, and so on.

Lucky for me I'm retired from my real job and don't make my living at building rifles because I couldn't.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

gunplumbers are not all equal.....the good ones stay busy, the hobbyist work at their real job as butchers
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

$5.00 dollars and hour after insurance, liscense, sales tax, property tax,income tax county tax, inventory tax, and any other tax you can think of. i just love paying tax, dont you? makes my day worthwhile, paying tax gives me a serious erection.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">gunplumbers are not all equal.....the good ones stay busy, the hobbyist work at their real job as butchers </div></div>

Staying busy has nothing to do with it, it's whether one can make a living at it and if one is doing it as a one man operation, shouldering all the expenses, it would be very difficult and I wouldn't recommend it without having some other form of income.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

No where near enough for what you do.
If you're up for a real challenge, just give it a try!
Way better money to be made with a lot less headaches at other professions.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

I make my living at it. I don't live the high life but I ain't broke either! I had a job making better money but I was working 12hr shifts and hated the job. So, I traded the higher income for a better place to live and relying on my own talents. I find this much more satisfying than working for someone else. Everything is a trade off.
And yes, getting folks to come get their stuff and pay is challenging at times!
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

Most of the gunsmiths I know are retired military, so they have a steady paycheck coming monthly.

They just do it because they enjoy tinkering and working on guns
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

I asked one of the top pistolsmith in the US what kind of money he made. He said when he took on a govt contract, he manage to bring in 40K but he was working like 16 hours a day.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

Are you talking about the gun work or the pshychological counseling that you have to do from time to time on your clients If you figure in the cost for permits and all the paperwork that goes along with it not to mention all of the headache, Lets just say that I am Finishing my first full year in business and let me tell you machines and tooling are expensive. If you have to tool up for something that you never had to do before you are lucky to break even and you might not do that same thing for another year, and then it might just be different enough that you have to buy different tooling. It's a good thing that i have a Day Job that Pays all of the bills the Gunsmithing Pretty much takes care of itself, If I can only fight the urge to build a new toy everytime i see something that i like. Justin Bowerman
JB Enterprise
Chowchilla. CA.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

I'm in the same boat as JB. I have a full-time job, and build custom rifles as a side-business. Basically it pays for my toys...and there's a lot of toys around that I wouldn't have if I didn't do the gunsmithing. I don't advertise as I have more than enough work to keep me too busy.

"gunplumbers are not all equal.....the good ones stay busy, the hobbyist work at their real job as butchers"

If you think you have to have a full-time shop open to do quality work, you must like paying the extra money for the 'reputations' some charge extra for. There's some damnded good 'craftsmen' that don't hang out their shingle but still do better work than most...and no, I'm not making that claim about myself.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: msalm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you think you have to have a full-time shop open to do quality work, you must like paying the extra money for the 'reputations' some charge extra for. There's some damnded good 'craftsmen' that don't hang out their shingle but still do better work than most...and no, I'm not making that claim about myself. </div></div>
Excellent point. My husband also does gunsmithing and custom builds. I work full time.

Also bear in mind that in addition to the gunsmithing skills you need to be able to run a business if you hang out your own shingle. You don't get paid for time spent processing paperwork, answering the phone, filing your taxes, etc.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

Interesting reports of the business. Sounds like a common theme is "you do it because you love the work, not the pay".
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

If all goes well, theres no reason a smith should be making less than $40 an hour. Much more somtimes IMO. There is tooling and machinery to buy and keep in stock, but it doesnt bring the hourly down much from what I can tell unless you ruin tooling at a rate of $10 per hour.

But things do not go smoothly all the time and when they dont, an entire day can be wasted fixing one problem at ZERO profit. Days like that bring the hourly wage down.

Factoring in time spent on the phone or answering emails brings it down even more.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

Not all smiths have the same over head. Some are fortunate enough to work from home where they don't pay rent, high city occupational licensing cost, and all the bills associated with a leased location. Not to mention insurance. I do believe that a grand majority do it because they love it, but truth be told, I don't know any that live in a fancy house and drive an $80 K automobile. You can make a living at it once others get to know your work, which is just another huge obstacle to get over. Doesn't matter how good you do it, if no one knows about you, then it's all for not. UShandgunner, AZPrecision, and HateCA know what they are talking about.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If all goes well, theres no reason a smith should be making less than $40 an hour. Much more somtimes IMO. There is tooling and machinery to buy and keep in stock, but it doesnt bring the hourly down much from what I can tell unless you ruin tooling at a rate of $10 per hour.

But things do not go smoothly all the time and when they dont, an entire day can be wasted fixing one problem at ZERO profit. Days like that bring the hourly wage down.

Factoring in time spent on the phone or answering emails brings it down even more. </div></div>


Keith,

Unless you are running machines from the minute you walk in the door until the minute you leave your not making $40 an hour for your work.

Lets look at a simple barrel threading job.

-Receive rifle in the mail
-open box, inventory all parts, make sure items are sound
-contact customer (later that evening) informing him his parts are in
-log barreled action into A&D book
-Make an invoice with Quick books and add a customer
-clean bore of barrel to ensure accurate indicating of bore
-break action off of barrel, sometimes this is very hard, sometimes it requires heat, special fixtures or just some time to ensure that the barrel and action are not damaged or scratched.
-Put barrel in the lathe ensuring the barrel is wrapped up or somehow protected
-Indicate barrel (most important process)
-Make cut, and measure thread pitch and diameter of threads
-time muzzle device to barrel if necessary
-safely remove barrel from lathe
-reinstall barrel to action ensuring it headspaces correctly, the recoil lug is in the same position and everything is as good or better than you received it as.
-clean bore and oil up the barreled action
-box up the rifle and print an invoice
-Log rifle out of A&D book
-schedule a pick up with UPS, Fed Ex and print off a shipping label
-contact the customer and inform them of their work shipping and with the tracking info.


So where are you going to find time to do all of that???? There is so much little stuff that comes up that has to be dealt with that you cant factor in. You will be at the end of your 12-15 hour day with only a few things done even though you busted your ass all day and only got a few things done.

When your a one man operation you need to do everything, answer phone calls, do research for customers, let them know what your prices are even though its clearly printed off on the website, order parts, consult them on thier build, answer emails, EAT, SLEEP, box up parts, mail them out, drive to the bank to deposit checks, test fire rifles.....

So who is actually going to be performing the work????????
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

US Handgunner Lets look at a simple barrel threading job. -Receive rifle in the mail -open box said:
<span style="color: #660000"><span style="font-weight: bold">(Shamless ass kissing)
<span style="font-size: 11pt">Thats why its very very important not to call and bug your smith untill a week AFTER the quoted delivery date as it only slows them down more and more , if you chose a good builder and all the vendors do their part your stick will get done on time</span></span></span>
Click to expand...
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

I figured 40 was a good average. Most machine time, from what I can tell, makes more than 40 an hour. Even if only half your day is spent on the machines, I still see 40 an hour being very acheivable.

Maybe you dont charge enough Mark.... joking
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

Being a gunsmith is tougher than people think. Even on the great times when you could make $40 an hour.

Conversely, machining pays decently for decent machinists. Agreed most of machining today is someone putting/pulling parts from and monitoring a CNC machine. But, that's mostly in manufacturing. A lot of times machinists are needed to help fabricate or repair a part that would take a few weeks if it had to ordered from the original place it was made. Not so many parts these days sitting around in warehouses. So, in the right shop you can gain a ton of great skills.
Anyhow, you can take those skills and use them for gunsmithing on the side. Of course you would have to take all the legal steps to make it right too, which is a cost.

There's two ways to make good money (read: get rich) High quality=high dollar, get paid a lot for each job you do. Or, High quantity= a lot of dollars, do a lot of jobs so you can get a lot of dollars. The latter one has always seemed to me to be more successful. However, it takes the most to tool up for and the most to maintain. And, it's definately not a one-man operation usually. That leaves the former choice. Stick to very high quality (improve his SKILLS!) and get paid a lot for each job.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

Need to specialize and not take in work that will slow you down.

If you only stick to the jobs that make you the bucks, and turn down the rest, you might just make some good coin.

Saw someone spend an entire day doing a 3pos saftey on a 700. ...waste of time/money(unless you can do them in a reasonable time)

On the other hand, some jobs pay nearly 100 an hour, so after overhead and phone/email time, your still up there.


Like I said and many of your know I'm not in the rifle selling game yet. But I am now doing the work, and it doesnt take as long as I once thought.


Besides, 40 an hour, working EVERY work week hour of the year, only adds up to 50k a year after taxes and minor overhead. Thats not a high paying job.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: US Handgunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So who is actually going to be performing the work???????? </div></div>

LOL Maybe little ferries come in at night and plumb up all those rifles.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

I pay about $6.40 an hour to be a gunsmith....oh wait, I'm still a student...nevermind
smile.gif
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If all goes well, theres no reason a smith should be making less than $40 an hour. Much more somtimes IMO. There is tooling and machinery to buy and keep in stock, but it doesnt bring the hourly down much from what I can tell unless you ruin tooling at a rate of $10 per hour.

But things do not go smoothly all the time and when they dont, an entire day can be wasted fixing one problem at ZERO profit. Days like that bring the hourly wage down.

Factoring in time spent on the phone or answering emails brings it down even more. </div></div>

$40/hr isn't too bad if you are working for someone else who is paying all the overhead. $40/hr minus overhead might not be all that great. when you lathe goes down at the worst possible time, that $40/hr isn't going to be looking like much at that point.

now if you are talking about clearing $40/hr after expenses, i could live with that.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

Very interesting thread. Great information to keep in mind.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Need to specialize and not take in work that will slow you down.

</div></div>

bingo! i remember a conversation randy and i had when i decided to enter this work a years back... he suggested tooling up for a single or just a few different action types to keep things rolling and continual. getting bogged down with every type of messed up chinese action through the hi fi stuff only takes a ton of time for set up and tooling you will hardly pay for with the job... from the perpspective of the little guy, you need to pick something you're good at or can become good at and stay with it. i know it tastes like acid in your mouth to turn a customer down when you have the time to do the work, but you'd be better served at using that time for promotion of the business so you can stay in your core created realm. you'll make money that way, and do a better job all things considered... if you're in it for other reasons and you love to build and create, then it'll be rare that you'll rake in buckets of cash. it can happen, but probably not to anyone i'll ever know...

my rate is $75 hourly. but like others have said above, you do your work on the weapon, then there is all the other crap that you don't charge $75 for... so the job takes 25 minutes and the process from start to finish takes an hour... didn't make much money after the machines, the tools, the lights, the heat, the monthly sales taxes, the FFL, the SOT, the FET, the ITAR, the quarterly reports, the daily manufacturing reports, the invoices are logged and vendors paid, the customer invoices data uploaded and receipt generated, shipping boxes and styrofoam peanuts (stuck to every GD thing i own) are all logged, paid, etc... that isn't even counting function checking the thing you build or modified... for me that is poking it out the assembly room window. for some poor bastards, they have to pack all that up and buy range time from somebody just to check it out... that $75 hourly ends up netting me less than $20 in most cases....

that $20 is pre income tax from state and federal government mind you...

so yeah... if you want to be a smith with high self esteem you can do it, but you may not roll up to your 20yr class reunion in a bentley...
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

I gave up a 90grand/year job in the space industry to go full time rifle building and gunsmithing. I must be crazy eh.,
Bieng a riflesmith isnt just a job though, its a way of life, its a calling.
I can charge $110 per hour easy enough if i spend all day at the workbench and machines. but then when you take telephone time, driving to suppiers, sending rifles to proof, packaging, un packaging, research,talking to customers,explaining some things 5 times, going to the customs,to the range, filling out import and export papers, chasing late, non or wrongly delivered items, explaining to customers why kit is late, developement of new items, sorting out problems caused by others, and answering questions on anything shooting related ( Gunpedia we are, seem to be anyhow) etc etc etc. it sure as hell brings the rate down some.
Then you've got to knock of the 19% value added tax.
then the Govt take 40% income tax.
then you gotta pay the medical insurance,3rd party liability insurance, product liability insurance,buildings insurance and rates, lighting, heating and electrics.Then machines, machine servicing, tooling, new tooling, tooling servicing. add the wages of any employees and.. damn, looks like i'm paying to do the damn job after all that. goddamn, I'm better off if i go work for McDonnalds.
I love the job of manufacturing rifles and rifle accessories,
I hate the burocracy, paperwork, telephone and associated runaround of the rest of the job. Ive paid my self a monthly wage on 3 occasions in the last 12 months thats it, luckily the wife works and i'm ex military ( couldnt live on the pension though) with all proceeds otherwise going back into the business for developement of new kit. But it wont always be like this, each business start up is an uphill struggle and i set out on my own 5 years ago part time with empty pockets and a 2nd hand remington 700. A mate lent me about 4 grand and i bought the lathe from the gunshop where i had worked part time. off I went, smithing in my days off between the shifts at the space agency. 2 1/2 years ago I went full time and have worked my ass off ever since. The germans call self employed " Selbst-ständig"

Selbst = by your self
Ständig = constantly
or on your own employed around the clock.

But apart from bieng a gun and gadget inventor for a big company who pay me a huge salary,( and i cant see that happening any time soon) I cant think of another job i'd rather do. but I still hate the burocratic side of the business with a vengance.

Pete
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

Keith, I'm not sure what your school teaches for buisness classes, but I will give you a good example of what a 40 hour week involves in a one man shop.

At $40 an hour working 50 weeks of the year, that grosses $80,000. If your actually productive for the full 40 hours a week.
If your only building custom rifles, say on Remington actions and custom actions, complete builds with coatings and stocks painted in house with muzzle brakes attached, you may gross about $800-$1000 a rifle, If you have an established reputation as a quality builder.

That means to Gross $80,000 a year you need to build 80-100 rifles a year. Most one man shop will tell you that is a pretty lofty goal. in a 2000 hour year.

Each one of those customers will take 2-3 hours of phone calls and e-mails

160 - 240 hours

Ordering parts, writing checks for parts, organizing build work orders, recieving parts, 1 hour each customer

80 hours

3 hours minimum a week with paper work associated with atf requirements, accounting, bill paying, tax reporting and filing,invoice writing, banking, and shipping/packaging ect.

120 hours

1 hour a week cleaning and maintaining equipment.

40 hours

2 hour a week e-mailing and answering phone calls from prospective customers. (Normally you will actually get a build from one out of two - three contacts.) cut short a call with a prospect and he will find someone else to build as his feelings were hurt.

80 hours a year.

All these numbers are conservative and based on 80 build customers.

480-560 hours a year that your not being productive.
Throw on another 100 hours for working on your own projects and loading ammo for your shooting pleasure such as f-class.

And these are conservative estimates, I can't completly nail them down as I work at least 60 hours a week when you include the nightly answering of e-mail. Yet I only manage 50-60 a year, plus those simple rebarrels, brake instals, bedding jobs, and such which don't gross me anywhere near $800

Add in the production and sale of parts that you retail such as Muzzle brakes, designer stocks ect and you just increased your work load. As well as this may cause some additional profits.

We haven't even started on the electrical bills , heat, rent, taxes, sewer and water, re-work for an ocasional stinker barrel, Modifying of some parts that just don't interface well with each other. (not all custom actions are barrel fit and go, and passing on cost associated with repairing a custom action don't sit well with customers.)

Oh yea machines, tooling, expendables.

Add on the first 2 year learning curve, setting up supplier accounts, providing finacial references, ect.

If you keep wearing rose colored glasses you shall fail before you start. Know what is involved and make decisions based on that rather than assumptions.

$20,000 a year net? Thats about right for your third year in buisness.

Work for a large chain as a repair man/gunsmith? $20,000-$30,000 if your good?

Make 50,000 a year? as a one man shop, May-be when everything is paid for, you have an Obama wind mill on your roof, your daughter does the book work, and your prices are on the high end of the market.

Most rifle builders made their money in another more profitable field, then decided to invest, and do what they love.

Multiple man shops should show more income as the worker bees don't talk to the customers, write orders, do book work or order material, plus more men/production under one rent and utility payment.

Got to get moving, packing for CO elk hunt. SOB there goes another 40 hours!!!


 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If all goes well, theres no reason a smith should be making less than $40 an hour. Much more somtimes IMO. There is tooling and machinery to buy and keep in stock, but it doesnt bring the hourly down much from what I can tell unless you ruin tooling at a rate of $10 per hour.

But things do not go smoothly all the time and when they dont, an entire day can be wasted fixing one problem at ZERO profit. Days like that bring the hourly wage down.

Factoring in time spent on the phone or answering emails brings it down even more. </div></div>

That's it in the least number of words. Chit-chatting with "customers" or wildcat wannabuyers are big time wasters that must be controlled. Having said that, every single similar business has those same issues.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

You know the difference between a large pizza and a gunsmith?

A large pizza can feed a family of four.....rimshot
laugh.gif
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smokshwn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know the difference between a large pizza and a gunsmith?

A large pizza can feed a family of four.....rimshot
laugh.gif
</div></div>

Ouch
grin.gif
Guess I should consider myself lucky that I only have a family of three
wink.gif
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

Another thing to consider is that if you're working for yourself then the approximate $40/hr doesn't have federal income tax, state income tax (if applicable), social security, medicare, medicaid, and cost of personal healthcare/benefits taken out, which typically ends up being somewhere around 30-40% all combined.

But that's the same as most small businesses. It's almost always more profitable to work for a company than yourself.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

You are supposed to charge for gunsmithing work??????????????

To bad all of my buddies are too busy to read this thread.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I still hate the burocratic side of the business with a vengance.

Pete</div></div>

Hire staff to handle it?
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

I'd be willing to say that for a good custom shop, the employees are making more cash in the pocket than the owner.

The owner has a higher net worth and everything belongs to him, but as far as getting a pay check. If his employees are worth their weight, they will make more cash.
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

At Nesika I grossed 50K/year and worked around 70hrs/week.

In Iraq I made almost 175K/year and worked 12hr/7days a week.

Self employed: Around $4.00/hr. I'm here at 7am and don't leave till around 8pm. My "weekend" starts at 5pm Sunday and expires 7am Monday.

With gunwork you start with a big pile of money to make a little one.
smile.gif


 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

sounds like a lot of business owners here could benefit from a class or two in running a small business, ... By this I mean that to find out how much to charge your clients you must factor in all the small shit and I mean ALL of it from the phone calls to the paper pushing and of course the actual work even the % of weekly admin that the job represents...

make time sheets for EVERY job you do collect all that data possible to ensure that your charging enough for the job compare the data to the other jobs see where you have made mistakes and learn from them adjust the pricing accordingly and to account for all costs including but not limited to the % of wear on the tooling and equipment that need to be accounted for.

Limit overhead and cut time try to be as efficient as possible : is it worth your time to pick up a part or pay 7$ to have it shipped?

A couple of other quick points Invoice in a timely manner never put this off till later pay attention to your accounts receivable, have a clear list of current jobs and there value as well as upcoming ones and there value so that you can determine if there will be any short falls in paying your bills and receiving payments or if you need more work to cover your monthly overhead.

THERE is no point in working for nothing if you are trying to make a living !!!,If the market can't handle the price you need to charge in order to make profit then you must take a good & long look in the mirror and figure out how you can cut the time or do the end all and shut it down or change business completely.

I started two small businesses one in graphic design (8 yrs and running) and one in custom fabrication (3yrs and running) the design one I own 50% the other I run myself full time and a lot of stuff being said sounds very similar to the thing I encountered in my first company. We only started to make a decent profit once we really did some of the earlier mentioned.

I know all of what I said sound like common sense but when you’re your own boss it’s easy to become complacent and NOT do the common sense things especially when it may not be your strong suit most small businesses start up because the owners like doing the particular type of hands on work and soon find out that they may not be doing much of it at all as the company grows and they take on the managerial roll.

OP if your brother is looking at starting up something, a small business course if an absolute must, he could start without one but will learn the hard way and probably cost him much more in the long run.

My .2 cents
 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

On paper you sound like a genius. I don't mean that sarcastically.

Here's the deal: "Gun plumbing" is, has, and will be for the most part, always been a cottage industry. We've all seen the romantic images of the craftsman in his apron lovingly massaging a part under the warm glow that only electricity and sodium provides.

Lets look at just how different gunwork is from other trades:

Auto repair.

You buy a water pump from Napa and it's 100 bucks.

You buy the same pump from a shop that installs it and the pump is suddenly marked up 40% and your wallet is further drained for the labor charges.

A custom barrel costs between 300 and 500 dollars roughly. A Jewel trigger retails for around $200. I might get them for $180-$195 if I buy in quantity. McMillan stocks retail uninletted, bondo patch blanks for $200 bucks.

Do the math once on a 40% mark up on a barrel. It goes from $300 to $500 (in retail I'm told a "true" 40% markup is the cost divided by .6 . -meaning $300/.6 ='s $500.00) Last I heard 40% is the bare minimum you charge if you want to stay in business when engaged in retail. How is it "Old Navy" can blow out clothes that were $60/pair for $10 bucks? Rest assured they aren't losing money. . .

If I or anyone else working in this trade attempted to do that we'd be laughed at, hung up on, and blasted all over the internet as a rip off artist.

I'm not whining. Just telling it how it is.

Now for the second big difference: Who brings their own steak to the steak house? Who brings their own parts to the auto shop?

-Some owners allow this in auto repair but it is definitely the exception to the norm. With gunwork its a common every day practice, How many other trades run this way? I don't know of any others to be honest.

Are there any hobbyist electricians or carpenters for instance that build houses for pennies on the dollar of what a contractor charges and allows the customer to skimp and pick through the deals at the suppliers?

Labor charges are everything in gunsmithing and this is the Achilles heal because there's always someone willing to do it cheaper.

The "hobby" gunsmith is a tough force to compete with.

The equipment I have (and I'll go out on a limb and say that between the software and machines I own I'm in the top 1/2 of a percent in the industry for custom gun plumber guys) is expensive to buy, expensive to maintain, and expensive to operate. The justification I use is that its a force multiplier in that as its running I can go do other things. In practice that's a farce as I don't trust myself to leave it unattended. The cost of a barrel and the time to get a replacement demands I stand over that machine in case something goes bezerk. The last Palma rifle I built was done on an $2,000 dollar piece of legit Turk walnut. I don't have the balls to leave it unattended while the mill carves out the barrel channel.

The other reasons are it does things I can't do with my hands alone and customers like it. Because of this I can get away with charging a little more than a guy in his garage at home.

I had this very sort of conversation about 6 years ago with Dan Lilja, owner of Lilja Rifle Barrels. His advise was to do a better job than anyone else. Reputation is everything and if you can pull that off you can get away with charging a bit more because the quality justifies it.

In broad terms he is/was correct but it must be tempered with knowing the market bears only so much. It's always a fine line. I welcome this competition as it makes me work harder on a variety of fronts to deliver a great product comparable in price with my competition. The moment you rest in your laurels someone will eat your ass. This economic yeast infection were all in clearly demonstrates it.

Last: Quit this stuff? Never happen. Those who can, do. Those who can't teach. -a quote my ol man is fond of saying.
This is what I do. I'd rather live humble doing this than high on the hog doing something I can't stand. There are names in this trade that have endured long after they have departed the earth. I think for some of us we strive to achieve that legacy. I know I do. Whether or not I get it is another story (dead people don't hear so good
smile.gif
)

I enjoyed your comments and it's reassuring to see someone else emphasize the importance of efficiency. I'm tryin!

Comments welcome.

C

 
Re: How much do gunsmiths make on salary/hour?

Yep, It is what the market can bare and most likely if you feel that the rates are too low so does your direct competition ... hence the formation of associations and such to aid in setting prices to a realistic range. Also by the sounds of it you’re not in the same league at all as the backyard guy and I doubt that someone with the money and the demand of absolute perfection would use the one. so those jobs lost to the lower rate are lost anyway and not worth doing.


the only way to make money when you have a small profit margin is volume, so designing a product and mid to mass producing it could be a viable option and I've noticed it done by others ie: bolt knobs ect... but don't limit it to only gun parts as a machinist it may open more doors to more profitable venues, I'm not saying that one should not continue with gunsmithing only look for more profitable things and add them to the repertoire.

Business should evolve and those that do not usually do not do well. In the design business I’m a part of we had found that the more fun jobs and the projects that we like to do were the least profitable due to the lower budgets the clients had, we decided to only take on the very best projects in this genre(the candy projects) and fill the rest with the higher paying or quicker turnaround jobs to help support our addiction to the “candy”.

It’s been working well so far , we still get to build up the portfolio and continue to make a reputation for ourselves along with making some money along the way, we are by no means rolling in it , but we are making a living and the company is growing it’s bank account after expenses are paid.


I can't speak for gunsmithing per say but it would still have to compare to custom fabrication , my lease profitable clients are residential most profitable commercial and that's due to how hard it is for the purchaser to part with their money if I’m building a custom handrail in a residence they usually want absolute perfection and want to pay that absolute lease, if I’m welding sanitary tubing in a beverage plant the client still wants perfection but is willing to pay for it but wants is done NOW. so there is a definite trade off. I prefer the commercial due to the quicker turnaround and larger pay but lose out on the beautiful custom fabrication side of things the only real loss in this is to my ego and not being able to show off much stuff.

Reading the posts above most gunsmithing sounds like my residential jobs, my only real suggestion is to diversify the company or if you feel that the perception of doing more than just one type work ie “ not specializing” will damage the reputation of a company name start another company and do not associate the two together.

Good luck to all
 
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