How much is too much copper?

nfngun

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 26, 2011
246
12
NY
OK I may bring the 5R out for its maiden run this weekend ... I plan on playing it by ear with break in. Break-in the big debate!

What i don't get is out of all the reading I've done about break in they always say shoot then clean ... but they never specify what the goal is. yea i can get out the powder with hopes 9 but what about the copper wouldn't the point be to get ride of all the copper in order to burnish the steel if I'm just using hoppes I'm not going to get the copper out. I found a copper cleaner i like so that's not the issue cleans well with just a jag so the question is when to use it how much is too much fouling.

Some would say when the accuracies falls off, we'll its a new gun who the hell knows what the accuracy is.
 
Re: How much is too much copper?

It makes me warm and fuzzy to remove the copper between shots when first firing a new barrel.

I don't bust my ass making sure it's totally free of copper, but I do use a good copper cleaner, and let it sit long enough to do its job... KG12, Gunslick foaming bore cleaner, Sweets, whatever. Let it work for 20 minutes, patch it out.

I normally give up after 10-15 shots, then letter rip. No idea if it makes a lick of difference, probably doesn't.
 
Re: How much is too much copper?

My break-in regiment:Shoot 1rds-clean. Shoot 2rds-clean. Shoot 3rds-clean. Shoot 5rds-clean. Put 5 more down the tube-clean. Put another 5 more then clean again, now i'm done then fun begins!!
 
Re: How much is too much copper?

I went with KG12 i am impressed with how well it worked on an old hunting rifle the fact it won't etch if left to long is a plus works very well without the need of a brush which is another plus.
 
Re: How much is too much copper?

The goal of breaking in a barrel is to remove the "tool marks" or other imperfections in the barrel from manufacturing. Makes sense. Until you think about it...copper is a soft, malleable metal. Chrome moly is not. How can your bullet make a difference by basically wearing the metal down smooth the first few rounds while breaking in...but not afterwards? If it only took a 10 or 20 rounds to wear down chrome moly steel in the break in process...barrel life, in number of rounds, would only be measured in high double digits.

You can do it if you want, it doesn't hurt anything. But there are a helluva lot of people who have stopped breaking in barrels and, oh my! No difference!? What!? Yup. Like I said, do whatever you want. If it makes you feel better doing it, go for it. But the common sense behind it just isn't there. Plus the experience. Lowlight made this post a few years ago. There's a lot of people who don't break in barrels, and not one problem reported.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have done something which can be considering a bit of proof, testing two similar rifles with one being broken in and the other not. Both were purchased within a short period of time of each other and fired in an identical manner. Fed a diet of factory ammo under similar conditions.

Two identical SAKO TRG-22 rifles in 308. I broke in one barrel and did not with the other and could not tell one from the other in terms of accuracy or cleaning, or anything else. Not very scientific but at the time I was not looking to be, other than interested in seeing what the results were. No down range gains, both shot equally well to the point of not knowing which was which after a year or so of shooting both.

Fast forward and I have completely stopped breaking in my barrels, and still I see no degradation of accuracy or difference in what is required to clean the rifles up. The barrels do not get shot out any faster, nor does accuracy degrade quicker or is there any noticeable fouling taking place.

I tend to clean my barrels much less then most but still manage well over 10,000 rounds staying below an MOA at 100 yards. I recently rebarreled my GAP Harbinger with a Broughton .30 cal barrel after it had what I conservatively estimated 12k rounds down the rifle. It was just about hovering at .75" at 100 yards. According to GAP it was worn about 1/4" in the throat.

At Rifles Only the SHR #50 had in excess of 15,000 rounds through it before changing the barrel with no break in and very little cleaning. It too was shooting about .75" when the action would cock the bolt. GAP reported about 4" of rifling missing from in front of the throat.

My Werewolf with a Bartlein Barrel has about 6k rounds currently through it, no break in, and no issue with accuracy or fouling, it shoots a solid 1/2 MOA.

The Gladius, about 3k rounds through it hits like a hammer, very little cleaning and no break in.

None of my gas guns have had their barrels broken in either, that is 3, a POF, a GAP with a Rock Creek and a Bartlein. No issues, very accurate and no fouling.

I also spoke with Tac Ops on the subject, and he does not believe in breaking in a barrel, Mike R does not recommend any form of break in, and does his test firing without doing so. So there is another voice in the mix that after years of experience does not feel there is any merit to the process. He did mention, as others have as well, that it's a bit of a pain in the ass because most customers expect some form of guidance and he simply recommends they shoot more and clean less, much to their chagrin.

So while data may not be available with hard and fast evidence, I have quite a bit of rounds downrange with a variety of similarly chambered 308s from a variety of makers and my results as well as opinions appear to be all the same. Clean less, shoot more and don't sweat the dogma published in the name of Barrel Break In.
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Re: How much is too much copper?

I noticed yesterday that copper is almost back to $4 a pound.

I will take all I can get to the scrap yard at that price.
 
Re: How much is too much copper?

If it takes more than 2 fouling shoots for the gun to shoot to its natural point of impact, you are cleaning to much.
 
Re: How much is too much copper?

Here's my story on the last barrel I "broke in". It was a Bartlein 5R. I took Mike Rocks advise and cleaned the new barrel and did the Shooters Solution method he uses to burnish the bore and throat. Proceeded to shoot 50 rnds total (5 for sight in and the rest for groups) then took it home to clean. Took out the usual ash and carbon, but to my surprise I found no visible copper. It could just be the way the barrel was made (5R rifling), but I'm a believer and will use this method on all my new barrels. Anyone else done this?
 
Re: How much is too much copper?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hdbiker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's my story on the last barrel I "broke in". It was a Bartlein 5R. I took Mike Rocks advise and cleaned the new barrel and did the Shooters Solution method he uses to burnish the bore and throat. Proceeded to shoot 50 rnds total (5 for sight in and the rest for groups) then took it home to clean. Took out the usual ash and carbon, but to my surprise I found no visible copper. It could just be the way the barrel was made (5R rifling), but I'm a believer and will use this method on all my new barrels. Anyone else done this? </div></div>

Virtually all of my barrels have done that. I just shoot it, no other treatment than a few patches to make sure there is nothing in there prior to the first round.
 
Re: How much is too much copper?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cpl Snafu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hdbiker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's my story on the last barrel I "broke in". It was a Bartlein 5R. I took Mike Rocks advise and cleaned the new barrel and did the Shooters Solution method he uses to burnish the bore and throat. Proceeded to shoot 50 rnds total (5 for sight in and the rest for groups) then took it home to clean. Took out the usual ash and carbon, but to my surprise I found no visible copper. It could just be the way the barrel was made (5R rifling), but I'm a believer and will use this method on all my new barrels. Anyone else done this? </div></div>

Virtually all of my barrels have done that. I just shoot it, no other treatment than a few patches to make sure there is nothing in there prior to the first round. </div></div>

Well I must be a sucker for falling for it. Maybe it's just a feel good thing.
 
Re: How much is too much copper?

Bore Tech Eliminator is all I use.

After my range session I clean well with it and then im done, I dont worry about anything else (barrel is a Bartlien - most accurate barrel i ever purchased and all I will buy in the future.)

Some people get to into cleaning their barrel.