How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

[JimGnitecki]

I am planning out how to reload 338 Lapua. The 338 Lapua cartridge overall length can be 3.67" or more (as high as 3.85"?). But, I also need to allow for (1) the case holder, and (2) the sleeve projection from a Redding Competition micrometer seating die. This all suggests a press with a (a) throat opening and (b) ram stroke somewhere north of 4".

I need compactness (we live fulltime in an RV) and the ability to clamp and unclamp the press easily and quickly from a work bench (it cannot stay there "permanently" between loading sessions).

I am thinking that a single stage non-turret press could potentially provide that kind of throat and movement range while also eliminating the slight variability of a turret press. A turret press requires at least SOME clearance to be able to rotate, and probably can vary in COAL just a tiny bit depending upon how much force you bottom it with each stroke (consistency). I don't mind swapping out the sizing and seat dies as needed.

What makes me hesitate though is I am not sure how consistent the die height in the press is when you remove and then reinsert it.

I am tempted to think that since a standard 7/8-14 TPI die thread moves only .0714" per complete 360 degree rotation, an error of even 5 degrees in re-threading it into the press would change its height only .001". So, if you mark the both the "perfectly adjusted" die and the press with alignment marks,before you un-thread the die, and make sure the lock ring is tight on the die, when you re-install it I would THINK you should be able to get awfully close to perfect alignment of the 2 marks, and therefore, awfully close to that perfect adjustment you had made last time you used the die.

Is that the case? Or, do you have to re-adjust despite the above "theory".

Jim G

 

[rpk762]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

I have the hornady die lock rings on all of my dies. I have my press marked with a few scratches that are filled in with ink. Then When I setup my dies for the first time and I am happy with that I scratch the lock rings to match up with one or more marks on my press. Then when I use a wrench to snug them down I just match up marks. I have found this to be very consistent.

 

[former naval person]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

As rpk says...also, when replacing the dies, when you get close to your old mark, with the dies still loose in the press, insert a case into the shell holder and raise the ram to seat the case into the die. Then by jiggling the ram a bit and turning the die to final position with the wrench, you allow the case to center the die...preventing or at lessening run out. Do the same sort of thing with an O ring between the lock ring and the top of the press and you'll reduce it more. See German Salazar's article on that procedure. JMHO

 

[rg1]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

I would just buy the biggest and best for loading your large caliber. Maybe the Redding Ultra-Mag press. I like the way it bolts to the bench which should make it easy to mount and dismount to a bench. Plus it hugs the edge of the bench. You're not going to save much space with any press large enough to handle your long caliber. Lock rings with wrench flats makes keeping your dies set easy. Lock the ring to the die and use a wrench to tighten the ring to the press makes it pretty repeatable. Just one opinion.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

I use a dillon 550 with many dif toolheads so the dies never unscrewed but you have a valid point, I never thought to check repeatability of the toolhead because accuracy always seems o be the same.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use a dillon 550 with many dif toolheads so the dies never unscrewed but you have a valid point, I never thought to check repeatability of the toolhead because accuracy always seems o be the same. </div></div>

I am familiar with the Dillon tool heads (I've owned 5 Dillon 650s in the past and a 550). Dillon does a nice job of "indexing" the tool heads to the frame by using a tongue and goove arrangement on the vertical edges of the toolhead plus 2 TAPERED pins. Nicely done. About as good as you can make a progressive press in terms of repeatability.

Jim G

 

[dstewart51]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

You may want to take a look at the Hornady Lock and Load bushing single stage press or a L&L bushing conversion kit. The L&L bushings are very repeatable when you need to switch out dies in a single stage press.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dstewart51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may want to take a look at the Hornady Lock and Load bushing single stage press or a L&L bushing conversion kit. The L&L bushings are very repeatable when you need to switch out dies in a single stage press. </div></div>

On the Hormady Lock-N-Load Classic:

- What is the open throat height?

- What is the stroke of the ram?

Jim G

 

[B y r o n]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

Check out the Co-Ax press. I reload 338 RUM using the Redding Comp dies without any issues. A ring is locked to the die body and inserted into a slot in the press so there should be no changes when switching dies in and out.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B y r o n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check out the Co-Ax press. I reload 338 RUM using the Redding Comp dies without any issues. A ring is locked to the die body and inserted into a slot in the press so there should be no changes when switching dies in and out. </div></div>

I like a lot of the features on the Co-Ax, but it looks awfully large, with a very long handle and handle stroke. The Hornady Lock-N-Load Classic seems quite a bit more compact in execution, and it appears that it would be large enough in terms of opening height and stroke.

Jim G

 

[dstewart51]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

Jim, I have both the Hornady L&L classic and a Redding T-7. You can load 338LM just fine on the Hornady, you just need to tip the bullet in to the die then slide the head in to the shell holder. Really, its not a big deal.

Once nice thing about the Hornady, its relatively small and its cast aluminum not steel so its much lighter.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

Co-Ax has 3 times the mechanical advantage of any traditional O press, that's important, especially with a big case like a 338lm, the length of stroke is not a big deal, nor is the handle length

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

Jim G.,
You can cut the handle off the co-ax off with a hacksaw if a shorter handle is desired. Or you can buy the short handle with a ball on it like I did. You'll find you don't have to bend any on the downstroke like a RC, T-7, those type of presses.

 

[Mike_R]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

I love the LNL bushings, I use them on a Rock Chucker Supreme. The Hornady LNL conversion kit has a threaded insert that replaces the 7/8-14 adapter that comes in the RCS press. Before that I had good luck with the Forster lock rings, I never was able to measure any difference in headspace or seating depth that I could attribute to swapping dies once the locking ring was set.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I am tempted to think that since a standard 7/8-14 TPI die thread moves only .0714" per complete 360 degree rotation, an error of even 5 degrees in re-threading it into the press would change its height only .001". So, if you mark the both the "perfectly adjusted" die and the press with alignment marks,before you un-thread the die, and make sure the lock ring is tight on the die, when you re-install it I would THINK you should be able to get awfully close to perfect alignment of the 2 marks, and therefore, awfully close to that perfect adjustment you had made last time you used the die.

Is that the case? Or, do you have to re-adjust despite the above "theory".

Jim G </div></div>

I FL size using Redding dies, and a .001" shoulder bump.

How do you maintain a consistant .001" bump from session to session, die swap to die swap?

By keeping the brass annealed, and by holding a torque value on the die everytime it's installed in the press.

The value itself doesn't matter, as long as it's tight enough, and it's the same the next time. I use 200 inch pounds on all my dies, and I torque them all, sizer, seater, ect. I made this handy little "wrench" that fits the Hornady split locking ring and has the 3/8" square drive hole for use with my inch pound torque wrench.

ETA: Consequently I don't have the seating depth issues that a lot of people seem to have either, by torquing in my seater dies. As long as the top of the press is clean and free of dirt/grit, and the lock ring is clean as well, the die will return to the exact dimension it was originally set up to be.

The picture explains it better than I can.....quick, simple, effective, and accurate.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

I have gotten some GREAT info and ideas form these thread replies, guys. Thank-you.

I'm going to go with a Hornady Lock-N-Load Classic. I talked to the Hornady factory people yesterday, and like this press because of the combination of compact overall size and working room required,the Lock-N-Load bushing setup, and the fact that it is "enough but not too much" press to do my 338 Lapua which is also the largest cartridge I will be handling. My auto restorer buddy says that it looks to him like I can simply clamp that press to my work surface with 2 C-clamps and it'll be sufficiently non-mobile, but if I want, I can get a custom clamp made that fstens to the press and to the work surface.

I'll also get the Redding Competition die set in which BOTH the seating die and the neck sizing die are micrometer adjusted, and in which there is a body die for full length sizing when needed.

To keep the brass as consistent as possible, I've made a deal to buy 260 of Norma brand 338 Lapua once-fired cases(fired in a McMillan rifle). The Norma brass seems to get consistently great reviews, and I guess I'll find out for myself how good it is.

Thanks to all who have psoted!

Jim G

 

[zuke]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

Since the world record was at one time held with a LEE loader using a rubber hammer,it really make's a guy wonder.....

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

"Since the world record was at one time held with a LEE loader using a rubber hammer,it really make's a guy wonder..."

Roger that, and a tip of the hat to Ontario!

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: How precisely does a die re-screw into a press?

Interesting follow-up:

The Hornady Classic press arrived today. It does indeed have the "Lock-N-Load feature as others have described above.

What they did not mention is that the Lock-N-Load feature also INCLUDES a "rubber washer", in each die holder, as used in the German Salazar method! This provides all the additional benefits of that technique.

The press is also satisfyingly small in overall dimensions. It's a little bit wider than my Harrell Turret press, but does a little less onto the table surface than the Harrell does. And, very surprisingly, despite the fact that its throat opening (over 4") and stroke (about 3 11/16") are both larger than that of the Harrell, it is actually about 5/8" shorter in height above the table.

It is a full "O" frame type press, not a "C" frame type, but gives you GREAT access to the case because the press's "O" frame is rotated about 30 degrees so that the front of the "O" does not obscure either your access or your visibility to the case and bullet. It also has a clever spent primer catch cup. The handle, which extends up much further than the Harrell's, looks like it will provide PLENTY of leverage for sizing the 338 Lapua cases.

Appearance: "Built like a tank". Very robust. And, the factory engineer confirmed it is powder coated, so the "paint" is very tough.

Clamps to the work surface very easily with just one modestly sized clamp.

So far, I am impressed. Especially for the price. Advertised "everywhere" for about $130.

Jim G