How to know if I can shoot

[Macmathews]

Here's the issue..
Rem 5R in .308..

I can shoot 1/2" 5 shot groups or better all day long at 100 YARDS..
Once I step back to 300 , my groups really open up.. like 2 1/2" pretty steady..
How can I tell if its my ability or my gun/load ?
I wish I knew somebody locally that had proven hammer at longer range..


Would love to hear some discussion on this..

P.S - I did go 2 for 7 at 1000 yards at balloons last winter.. Shooting in the snow from a vantage point.. (maybe I just got lucky)

Kyle

 

[shovelstrokeed]

2.5" groups at 300 equates to 0.83 MOA, what's wrong with that?
Optic, shooter, rest, position, wind. all tend to spread groups a little.
Wish I could shoot 1/2" all day long at 100. My average target will have some at 0.8, some near 0.9 and a couple of sub 0.5, sometimes only one. My average is more like 0.7.
I'm more or less happy and working on the things I can to improve.
For a factory rife, you ain't doing bad.

 

[djskit]

What scope are you running? Have you properly focused the reticle? Do you adjust parallax? That would be the simplest explanation.

Another suggestion would be pick a smaller aiming point for 300 yards. Maybe a 2" orange dot on a white background? Aim small and all that.

 

[BravoSierra]

I have not one day in a precision class. I cloverleaf at 100. At 600, i'm about 5.5"s. If 1moa=1" or so at a 100yards, and 2"s or so at 200, and so on, then you are right where you should be i would think, considering the mechanical capabilities of the rifle coupled with your own. I'm working on my consistency and positioning now, so will take a class so I'm not developing bad habits.

 

[rideHPD]

What ammo are you shooting? Do you know the velocity spread? Is the spread vertical, horizontal or a bit of both? If you can hammer at 100 yards but the groups open up further away either the ammo is dropping different amounts each time and/or you're forgetting about wind/have some deviation from wind.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Today, a shooter with most any rifle linked to a bipod, scope, and match grade ammunition will see such an outfit serve as a substitute for marksmanship at short range. Viewing this shooter's groups it would not be possible to discern that the shooter may not know how to shoot. In fact, only by observing the shooter build his position and pull the trigger could a highly qualified coach discern if the shooter actually knew anything about good shooting. For a shooter himself to recognize accomplishment the target would need to go out to mid range where the shooter's angular errors, masked at short range, would be revealed. Thing is, this shooter would likely view such errors as ones produced by wind or ammunition, since most everybody thinks they already know how to shoot as evident from the ability to discharge the firearm. No matter what the grouping looks like, these folks cannot be convinced of their ignorance of marksmanship fundamentals . They would never consider formal training since they think they know what they do not know. BTW, asking these shooters to show me how to do it has lead me to realize that many of these folks have some really funny views on what is important to good shooting, like a need to see the target clearly. It makes me wonder where they got such notions.

 

[brianf]

one of the main issues is the repeatability of your position and even cadence of shots at times. my friends and i ran a little test a few years back, we each shot five round groups not trying to move at all between each shot (only to cycle bolt). we then loaded up another 5 and after each shot we got up walked around, got behind the rifle...and wouldn't you know it our groups opened up double and some guys even more. it surprised us that the consistent relationship between you the rifle is more important then any of us thought at the time.

 

[ahhshoot]

BC of bullet, Wind, and Parallax are all things I'd be looking at. All in all 2.5" @ 300 is within the realm of acceptable for most, but I understand always wanting to improve.

I built a 6.5 CM off a Savage short action with a Shilen select match and that gun would stick 1" at 300 all day on a calm day.

300 is enough distance for wind to take some effect on a small group size but honestly you are probably doing ok.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

one of the main issues is the repeatability of your position and even cadence of shots at times. my friends and i ran a little test a few years back, we each shot five round groups not trying to move at all between each shot (only to cycle bolt). we then loaded up another 5 and after each shot we got up walked around, got behind the rifle...and wouldn't you know it our groups opened up double and some guys even more. it surprised us that the consistent relationship between you the rifle is more important then any of us thought at the time.

You have discovered that the secret to good shooting is in fact a consistent relationship between shooter, gun, and ground, which minimizes the shot to shot angular error produced from inconsistent recoil resistance. The surprise to me is that this obvious need to be consistent from shot to shot for the best results is not so obvious to most shooters. These shooters will fret over their hand loads, massaging them to perfection; yet, never consider the need to perfect their position to the magnificence of their ammunition to realize any benefit of massaged ammunition. At any rate, you get it, and because you get it, you will have greater success with it than most.

 

[TimK]

I know for me it was the sudden realization that the rifle is moving...a lot...before the bullet exits the barrel that tipped me off to the importance of a consistent position.

OP, try this if you want to find out if you can shoot. Shoot a five shot group normally, without breaking position. Now shoot some more but stand up after every shot. If group sizes are different, you need training.

Simpler yet, do you have a procedure for building your position every shot, or do you just flop down any old way? If you don't know where each body part goes and how it should feel, you need some training.

 

[damoncali]

If it's not the wind, it's your equipment. Angles are angles.

 

[ahhshoot]

Where are you shooting? Is it windy or no? If I plug a 5mph crosswind into my ballistics calculator, I am getting over an inch of wind drift at 300 yards with 168gr SMK @ 2650 fps. 5mph wind is not much... This would definitely explain the increase in spread from 100.

If you are TRULY consistently shooing .5MOA groups @100 then you should open up to 1.5" at 300 all other things aside. If you have a 5mph crosswind you are looking at right about 2.5". 5-7 mph is considered a very light breeze and is barely felt on the face.