Re: How to quiet down a 10/22?
you do the same, sir
you do the same, sir
- Thread starter DPontius
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Re: How to quiet down a 10/22?
The bolt buffers work well. Kidd sells the style I have which is a metal pin sleeved in rubber tubing.
I radiused the back of my bolt but I don't know if that assisted noise reduction at all. I have a +20% recoil spring because my 6" barrel with Aguila SSS would chrono 30FPS faster with it (delayed unlocking).
Some suppressors produce 119+DB at the ejection port where others are 115, so it depends on the backpressure of the suppressor in question.
I'm sure you can manipulate variables to a certain extent but it would require different mods with each suppressor and barrel length most likely for optimal performance, and it's really not going to be too big of a deal.
<span style="font-weight: bold">So I recommend a +20% spring, the rubber sleeved pin, the radius on the back of the bolt (reliability only) and that's probably it.</span>
The rest of it probably falls into the pain in the ass category.
As far as ammo, <span style="font-weight: bold">I recommend SK Plus or Wolf Match Target which as far as I know are advertised to be the same load. These bullets are lubed for reliability, and offer very consistent ~1040FPS velocity from a 16" barrel.
CCI SV is OK, but has 2-3 times the extreme spread of SK+, and is not lubed for reliability. </span>
The bolt buffers work well. Kidd sells the style I have which is a metal pin sleeved in rubber tubing.
I radiused the back of my bolt but I don't know if that assisted noise reduction at all. I have a +20% recoil spring because my 6" barrel with Aguila SSS would chrono 30FPS faster with it (delayed unlocking).
Some suppressors produce 119+DB at the ejection port where others are 115, so it depends on the backpressure of the suppressor in question.
I'm sure you can manipulate variables to a certain extent but it would require different mods with each suppressor and barrel length most likely for optimal performance, and it's really not going to be too big of a deal.
<span style="font-weight: bold">So I recommend a +20% spring, the rubber sleeved pin, the radius on the back of the bolt (reliability only) and that's probably it.</span>
The rest of it probably falls into the pain in the ass category.
As far as ammo, <span style="font-weight: bold">I recommend SK Plus or Wolf Match Target which as far as I know are advertised to be the same load. These bullets are lubed for reliability, and offer very consistent ~1040FPS velocity from a 16" barrel.
CCI SV is OK, but has 2-3 times the extreme spread of SK+, and is not lubed for reliability. </span>
Re: How to quiet down a 10/22?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhnmdahl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it's reasonable to expect that using a suppressor that is quieter will increase backpressure, resulting in more action cycling noise in a 10/22 as the bolt cycles earlier or faster than designed due to the added pressure. this probably also makes a tight chamber fit more important than in an unsupressed gun.
Perhaps one could use a bolt with increased mass to proportionally slow down the action? A few minutes of searching showed that Midway sells a tungsten bolt handle designed to add mass and slow a 10/22 action.
It's also curious that the guy in the video linked above has chosen to stand against a hard backstop (and it appears there may be a roof/overhang as well), and point the meter up in the air rather than at the sound source, etc. - these factors can contribute to misleading and inconsistent readings.
</div></div>
that's Jon Titsworth, Jr....one of the, if not the, leading authority on suppressor testing. the meter's are placed to MIL spec standards and the presence of the wall/roof have no baring on the pulse created by the firearm. you might hear an echo, but the meters do not calculate it. there are easy to read traces from the meters that show the peak pressure, duration of the peak, and all other data. </div></div>
I have a B&K 2203 and 2209 and a master's and most of a Ph.D in engineering, and the statements above are each untrue. As others have already pointed out, they're the wrong tools for this job, not to mention his setup/environment is atrocious.
Rolling, I understand and agree that backpressure increases will vary widely, but was simply making the point that it's particularly important in a gun like a 10/22 for the bolt mass to be adjusted to compensate for whatever adjustment in backpressure one sees as a result of a suppressor.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhnmdahl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it's reasonable to expect that using a suppressor that is quieter will increase backpressure, resulting in more action cycling noise in a 10/22 as the bolt cycles earlier or faster than designed due to the added pressure. this probably also makes a tight chamber fit more important than in an unsupressed gun.
Perhaps one could use a bolt with increased mass to proportionally slow down the action? A few minutes of searching showed that Midway sells a tungsten bolt handle designed to add mass and slow a 10/22 action.
It's also curious that the guy in the video linked above has chosen to stand against a hard backstop (and it appears there may be a roof/overhang as well), and point the meter up in the air rather than at the sound source, etc. - these factors can contribute to misleading and inconsistent readings.
</div></div>
that's Jon Titsworth, Jr....one of the, if not the, leading authority on suppressor testing. the meter's are placed to MIL spec standards and the presence of the wall/roof have no baring on the pulse created by the firearm. you might hear an echo, but the meters do not calculate it. there are easy to read traces from the meters that show the peak pressure, duration of the peak, and all other data. </div></div>
I have a B&K 2203 and 2209 and a master's and most of a Ph.D in engineering, and the statements above are each untrue. As others have already pointed out, they're the wrong tools for this job, not to mention his setup/environment is atrocious.
Rolling, I understand and agree that backpressure increases will vary widely, but was simply making the point that it's particularly important in a gun like a 10/22 for the bolt mass to be adjusted to compensate for whatever adjustment in backpressure one sees as a result of a suppressor.
John
Re: How to quiet down a 10/22?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhnmdahl</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
that's Jon Titsworth, Jr....one of the, if not the, leading authority on suppressor testing. the meter's are placed to MIL spec standards and the presence of the wall/roof have no baring on the pulse created by the firearm. you might hear an echo, but the meters do not calculate it. there are easy to read traces from the meters that show the peak pressure, duration of the peak, and all other data. </div></div>
I have a B&K 2203 and 2209 and a master's and most of a Ph.D in engineering, and the statements above are each untrue. As others have already pointed out, they're the wrong tools for this job, not to mention his setup/environment is atrocious.
Rolling, I understand and agree that backpressure increases will vary widely, but was simply making the point that it's particularly important in a gun like a 10/22 for the bolt mass to be adjusted to compensate for whatever adjustment in backpressure one sees as a result of a suppressor.
John </div></div>
The argument was that the peak sound could not be louder than an echo because sound loses significantly measureable energy in ~one meter, and it would take ~2 meters of travel to reflect and return.
After some negative attention he did begin to use an open field for testing which is per MIL-STD-1474D. The Mil-std test protocol is itself 1.6 meters above the ground which of course could reflect sound.
AAC has demonstrated that they were able to get accurate test results to occur for centerfire suppressors in a foam lined room (or trailer/ I'm not sure which). So apparently echos are not as major an issue as the MIL-STD ptorocols would make them appear to be.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhnmdahl</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
that's Jon Titsworth, Jr....one of the, if not the, leading authority on suppressor testing. the meter's are placed to MIL spec standards and the presence of the wall/roof have no baring on the pulse created by the firearm. you might hear an echo, but the meters do not calculate it. there are easy to read traces from the meters that show the peak pressure, duration of the peak, and all other data. </div></div>
I have a B&K 2203 and 2209 and a master's and most of a Ph.D in engineering, and the statements above are each untrue. As others have already pointed out, they're the wrong tools for this job, not to mention his setup/environment is atrocious.
Rolling, I understand and agree that backpressure increases will vary widely, but was simply making the point that it's particularly important in a gun like a 10/22 for the bolt mass to be adjusted to compensate for whatever adjustment in backpressure one sees as a result of a suppressor.
John </div></div>
The argument was that the peak sound could not be louder than an echo because sound loses significantly measureable energy in ~one meter, and it would take ~2 meters of travel to reflect and return.
After some negative attention he did begin to use an open field for testing which is per MIL-STD-1474D. The Mil-std test protocol is itself 1.6 meters above the ground which of course could reflect sound.
AAC has demonstrated that they were able to get accurate test results to occur for centerfire suppressors in a foam lined room (or trailer/ I'm not sure which). So apparently echos are not as major an issue as the MIL-STD ptorocols would make them appear to be.
Re: How to quiet down a 10/22?
I watch guys shooting suppressed rifles at our range regularly. If a guy wants a suppressor, I'm all for it. For my money, though, I don't hear enough sound reduction to make it all worthwhile!
I've fired suppressed pistols and the same goes there. A "bang!" is reduced to a "pop" but the whisper quiet firearms are just found in the movies from my observation.
Again, if you want a can, I say get right after it. Just have realistic expectations in your results so you won't be disappointed.
Flash
I watch guys shooting suppressed rifles at our range regularly. If a guy wants a suppressor, I'm all for it. For my money, though, I don't hear enough sound reduction to make it all worthwhile!
I've fired suppressed pistols and the same goes there. A "bang!" is reduced to a "pop" but the whisper quiet firearms are just found in the movies from my observation.
Again, if you want a can, I say get right after it. Just have realistic expectations in your results so you won't be disappointed.
Flash
Re: How to quiet down a 10/22?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ROGER4314</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I watch guys shooting suppressed rifles at our range regularly. If a guy wants a suppressor, I'm all for it. For my money, though, I don't hear enough sound reduction to make it all worthwhile!
I've fired suppressed pistols and the same goes there. A "bang!" is reduced to a "pop" but the whisper quiet firearms are just found in the movies from my observation.
Again, if you want a can, I say get right after it. Just have realistic expectations in your results so you won't be disappointed.
Flash</div></div>
you've never shot a suppressed .22lr then..... you, literally, hear the hammer/action...then you hear impact. there is NO report from the ammo going off, at all
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ROGER4314</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I watch guys shooting suppressed rifles at our range regularly. If a guy wants a suppressor, I'm all for it. For my money, though, I don't hear enough sound reduction to make it all worthwhile!
I've fired suppressed pistols and the same goes there. A "bang!" is reduced to a "pop" but the whisper quiet firearms are just found in the movies from my observation.
Again, if you want a can, I say get right after it. Just have realistic expectations in your results so you won't be disappointed.
Flash</div></div>
you've never shot a suppressed .22lr then..... you, literally, hear the hammer/action...then you hear impact. there is NO report from the ammo going off, at all
I Have Just received this July 2013 !!!
I bought one of the original JG Drop-In Bolt locks at the Spring 2007 Machine Gun Shoot at Knob Creek. It worked like a charm on my integrally suppressed 1022. 1): Cleaner receiver. 2) Minimal mechanism sound (other than sear & firing pin). 3) All gas directed through bbl.
Our business since transferred that weapon out on a Form 3.
Just received Tom Wheeler's Generation 2 - "Ballistic Bolt Lock."
Better than the Gen 1 Bolt Lock! I researched that version under JG Bolt Lock. Very well machined. Dropped right in to the trigger group. No mod reqd. Handles ALL standard velocity ammo but HYPER velocity.
but Who Is running Hyper with a suppressor? Kinda defeats the purpose - don't ya think?
The kit's got nice black oxiding - I believe my Gen I JG kit was blued. So now I have both Semi & Single shot. And that Single shot mode is locked down tight - Cleaner action.
Reach out to him -he is shipping now. When I ordered (received in 5 days) he told me his production runs are occurring in bursts of 50 qty with fair amount of time in between. I'm tempted to buy another before his current inventory is gone. Search under Ballistic Bolt Lock (Gen 2) or JG or JT (Gen1)[/B]
I bought one of the original JG Drop-In Bolt locks at the Spring 2007 Machine Gun Shoot at Knob Creek. It worked like a charm on my integrally suppressed 1022. 1): Cleaner receiver. 2) Minimal mechanism sound (other than sear & firing pin). 3) All gas directed through bbl.
Our business since transferred that weapon out on a Form 3.
Just received Tom Wheeler's Generation 2 - "Ballistic Bolt Lock."
Better than the Gen 1 Bolt Lock! I researched that version under JG Bolt Lock. Very well machined. Dropped right in to the trigger group. No mod reqd. Handles ALL standard velocity ammo but HYPER velocity.
but Who Is running Hyper with a suppressor? Kinda defeats the purpose - don't ya think?
The kit's got nice black oxiding - I believe my Gen I JG kit was blued. So now I have both Semi & Single shot. And that Single shot mode is locked down tight - Cleaner action.
Reach out to him -he is shipping now. When I ordered (received in 5 days) he told me his production runs are occurring in bursts of 50 qty with fair amount of time in between. I'm tempted to buy another before his current inventory is gone. Search under Ballistic Bolt Lock (Gen 2) or JG or JT (Gen1)[/B]
^----- Have you already installed it? Perhaps even used it?
I'm curious how well it works to lock the bolt back for cleaning/inspection.
Also, how different is the "Gen 2" vs "Gen 1"?
I'm curious how well it works to lock the bolt back for cleaning/inspection.
Also, how different is the "Gen 2" vs "Gen 1"?
Max Stryker, do you have a contact for your recent purchase? Search where for Ballistic Bolt Lock (Gen 2) or JG or JT (Gen1)? Thanks.
