How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

[Hantra]

All:

I got a great load worked up for my OBR using VARGET with 70 Grain VLD's. I don't think that's the right powder for that gun, based on what my gunsmith told me once. I wanted to get your opinion on this.

He told me that with a precision rifle, the right powder will actually get tighter when using higher charge weights. For example, 25 grains should be tighter than 24 grains, etc.

This load is brilliant at 23.4 grains (.289 MOA), but it spreads out quite a bit when I go above that to the max charge.

Based on that, I feel like I could do better trying a different powder.

I have on hand:

H335
XBR 8028

What do you guys think? Is the advice above accurate based on the experience of most precision shooters?

Thanks!

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

Not true. Each rifle is going to have accuracy "nodes". You will find some at lower weights and some higher. However, charge weights in between will not shoot as well as the accuracy nodes. If you start seeing pressure signs (blown primers, primer flow, ejector swipes, decreasing velocity at higher charge, etc) you know you need to back it off.

Your gunsmith doesn't know what he is talking about. There really is not a true correlation between increased charge weight/velocity and tighter groups.

Josh

 

[ozzy1038]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

IMO you know you have the right powder when it gives you groups you are satisfied with. Varget is an outstanding powder that is temperature stable, accurate and my go to for .308. H335 is good too, but I like powders that fill the case as I believe they are more efficient and eliminates the possibility of a double charge.

If you are the type that likes to play around then go for it. I think load development is a PITA sometimes so once I get what I'm after I quit. That being said if I had a range at my place I would play around a lot more. But for me time and the cost of developing loads can be prohibitive. I would love to have the money to buy and try every component out there, but I don't.

 

[Hantra]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ozzy1038</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That being said if I had a range at my place I would play around a lot more.
</div></div>

I'm with you. I only have a 200 yard range, so I have no idea how this load will perform beyond that. One of these days.

I thought the statement was a bit strange myself based on what I know about the nodes and all. Thanks a bunch!

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

Varget is a stellar powder with the heavies like 75 and 80gr bullets. I have tried some Bergers but the Sierra MK's get the nod with the Varget for best accuracy in my rig, but then my rig is a 15 inch Krieger barreled, custom XPR-100. I tried the XBR-8208 and it was nothing to write home about with 75s and 80s. It may do a bit better with the 70gr as the lighter you go in bullet weight with that powder the higher the load density. I would say if you have some try it and see how it does with the Bergers. Let us know what you find.

 

[Magstang1]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

More powder does not equate to more accuracy as a rule. If it shoots consistently and accurately why turn up the heat?

 

[MALLARD]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ozzy1038</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO you know you have the right powder when it gives you groups you are satisfied with.
</div></div>

exactly

i would give the 8208 a shot though

 

[Guest]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MALLARD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ozzy1038</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO you know you have the right powder when it gives you groups you are satisfied with.
</div></div>

exactly

i would give the 8208 a shot though </div></div>

+1 on the 8208. It works great for us.

 

[bowslngr]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeSWammo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MALLARD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ozzy1038</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO you know you have the right powder when it gives you groups you are satisfied with.
</div></div>

exactly

i would give the 8208 a shot though </div></div>

+1 on the 8208. It works great for us.

</div></div>

What loads do you use it in?

 

[pepperbelly]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

Is your 'smith an older guy? If so he may have read the same article I did and didn't remember it correctly.
Several years ago i read an article in either Handloader or Rifle magazine about modern powders and bullets. Back when I started loading with my dad- in the '60s, and through the '70s and '80s it was a generally accepted rule that you would get your best accuracy at a powder charge about 10% under a max charge. With modern powders the article reported that best accuracy came nearer the max charge.
If you find a load that is consistent and accurate- use it. If you want to get really into it get a chronograph and check what your loads are doing. Another article I remember showed accuracy and velocity falling off with pressure increasing with higher charge weights.

Jim

 

[vman]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

The right powder for you fits the following criteria.
- is safe to shoot in your rifle
- gives you great accuracy in normal pressure limits
- is temp stable
- meters well
- is easy to obtain

A lot of guys use varget/ar2208 for these very reasons

 

[Hantra]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

Jim:

He's probably late 40's. Does lots of work for military, and PALMA. I know he's had at least two national championship guns in the past 5 years at 1000 yds. The guy is very good.

Regardless, it is possible that I didn't understand what the heck he was talking about b/c a lot of the time, he's way over my head.

That's why I wanted to try and clarify.

Thanks for the insight. The guy's building me an AR10, so I'll be sure to ask him in like a year when that's done.

 

[Supersubes]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

I like varget a bunch and use it in .223, .308, and 6.5x47. Makes things easy that way.

In my 223 bolt gun I load 24 grains of varget under a 77smk. Drives nails!

Sounds like your gun shoots great, don't screw with it.

 

[vonbalkenbush]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The right powder for you fits the following criteria.
- is safe to shoot in your rifle
- gives you great accuracy in normal pressure limits
- is temp stable
- meters well
- is easy to obtain

A lot of guys use varget/ar2208 for these very reasons

</div></div>

Vman pretty much covered the bases. As far as increased charge = greater accuracy, that's bogus. Your smith sounds like he knows what he's doing, so I'm just gonna chalk it up to a misunderstanding. If he's built guns that have taken national 1k titles, I would like to know what he was really getting at though?

 

[clmayfield]

Re: How to tell when you've found the "right powder"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The right powder for you fits the following criteria.
- is safe to shoot in your rifle
- gives you great accuracy in normal pressure limits
- is temp stable
- meters well
- is easy to obtain

A lot of guys use varget/ar2208 for these very reasons

</div></div>

Perfect, but I would add
- gives you good velocity in normal pressure limits