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Suppressors How's a can help accuracy???

Goin'Hot

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 14, 2008
2,271
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Central, Ohio
Shot my LR308 last night. 1st 2 groups 5 shots in 5/8 at 100 yds. Removed my Cooley comp, put the blackout flash hider and 7.62SD on and the groups moved 1 min right 1/2 min down. Group size opened up to 1.5".

Most people state there can helps with accuracy. My question is, how can a gun shoot the same "tuned" ammo better when you hang 19 ounces off the end of the barrel?????

I'm figuring on going back to the drawing board for load development with the can on since it changes the barrel harmonics sooooo much.

Do people usually take a crappy load, roll the dice and get lucky that hanging 19 ounces off the end helps?

BTW... VERY HAPPY with the can shoothing full house loads.
 
Re: How's a can help accuracy???

With my rifle and my Cyclone K I found that accuracy improved approximately .1" @100 yards. I think it has to do with 2 potential things. First, the recoil impulse is slowed down so my form can be a little off. Second, the turbulence can be removed from the base of the bullet. That's my thought process at least.
 
Re: How's a can help accuracy???

The best thing to stabalize a bullet is a completely even crown but even the best barrel makers cannot completely make their barrels PERFECTLY even. (Even though most top barrels are almost perfect they are not completely perfect) A suprressor helps stabalize the bullet because it gives it a true even surface to impart from the barrel. All the gases are evenly distributed around the base which creates better stability and repeatability.
 
Re: How's a can help accuracy???

While I enjoy all the mechanical answers above, bottom line in its practical application to shooting is 1) reduced flinch leads to greater consistency of the shooter, and 2) easier to see your first hits should you need a second hit. Oh, and the statement by k9222 implies the baffles are perfectly designed. I would assume there can be an substantially worsened accuracy with can design flaws, or so I've heard.
 
Re: How's a can help accuracy???

the biggest factor in a suppressor having an effect of accuracy is the change in barrel harmonics due to the added weight and shift in the barrels ballance point. Yea their may be some fact that the baffles aid in "stripping" some turbulance off the base of the bullets but its highly unlikely as some baffles don't have concentric holes around the bullets path.
Other major factors like reduce recoil and reduce flinching from noise are also very high on the list of things that effect accuracy.

you can take a rifle that shoots a specific load in the .1's , then wrap the last 2" of the barrel with a role of electrical tape and the gun will group differantly , just by adding a tiny bit of weight you have changed the barrels harmonices.
this is why you almost always have to re tune the ammo after the barrel gets cut down , not so much because on the limited loss in velocity but the big change in harmonics.
Realy big heavy cans ahave a much larger impact on the accuracy when they are taken off and on again more mass is more change. Also if you screw that same can onto a 26" med weight barrel the POI change will be alot more than on a 18" barrel thats 1.25" in diameter , the later is far stiffer and will be less affected by the weight

An improperly threaded barrel will make a gun shoot like crap with the can on also , as will a can thats not tight , as a general rule of thumb can thhat thread mount are more consistant with the POI change than QD cans but its not always true.
 
Re: How's a can help accuracy???

I have heard claims that shooting with a silencer attached can make a rifle slightly more accurate, but I fail to understand why it would have anything to do with silencer construction.

When the bullet exits the barrel, the gases rush past it, potentially upsetting the bullet's flight. If those gases are not contained by a silencer or other muzzle device, they cease to be a factor soon after the bullet gets past the crown. But if the bullet is moving through a silencer or long muzzle brake, the contained gasses have more of a chance to disrupt the path of the bullet, especially those silencers which have asymmetrical or slatted baffles. Am I making any sense here? Anyone agree or disagree?

I have to admit I do not understand what k9222 is saying in the last two sentences of his post; my fault not his.

It has been my experience that the point of impact changes significantly, especially when using subsonic ammo or mounting the can on a long barrel and shooting past 200 yards.

Ranb
 
Re: How's a can help accuracy???

From what I have been told is that a suppressor (of course a well made suppressor ie. surefire, AAC) the suppressor when properly attached allows the gases to be evenly ditributed around the base of the bullet as it exits the muzzle which in turn will create more consistency and better accuracy. I also agree that less recoil helps increase accuracy since your able to concentrate more on the shot and not waiting for the recoil.
UKDslayer is right, there are some suppressors out there that are not made as well as others and can cause accuracy to worsen.
 
Re: How's a can help accuracy???

Some people have these problems with all kinds of cans, but the accuracy getting worse is generally related to the silencer weighing too much, or the silencer having a design flaw.

AAC silencers for rifles involve about 10 full circumferential welds in stainless steel which is known for a tendancy to warp when welded, and then if stresses are not relieved when heated as well. So the first round might shoot true and the third round may fly if the silencer was not properly heat treat stress relieved, post welding, prior to EDM. I've talked to one person who mentioned the same wandering group inside 3 rounds with a 7.62SD. He claimed to have tested it and found it to warp when heated. Perhaps shoot it, check tighten it, wait one minute and shoot it again repeat three times and see if this changes anything.

7.62SD's also have a 18? tooth mount which is known to pop loose in a lot of cases by a small amount, allowing play in the system even if it's very slight play. The ratchet is not timed to the spring detent locking mechanism and in relation to the threads on the barrel and flash hider. So you may be able to find a better mount if that is your problem through trial and error. AAC added a second (probably slightly off time) spring detent retainer to the later models, so I believe that splits the difference and makes the problem 1/2 as likely to occur, or makes you twice as likely to be able to find a satisfactory mount.

So you can see narrowing the problem to a source is tough. It could be stress relieving, or mounting, or weight, or even eccentricity and tightness combined of the blast baffle aperture.

Ops Inc makes silencers thast feature taper/collar conventional 60degree metric thread mounting (rock solid and even tensions the barrel improving rigidity), have symetrical baffle systems, and they are properly stress relieved post welding, although not EDM bored, they generally exhibit a tendancy to improve host weapon accuracy when employed, and minimally shift POI when installed on properly threaded barrels. There are only 2-4 sources in the US who do proper thread work that I know of. I trust ADCO firearms. They do really good work and they are really nice people to work with.

Surefire is similar to Ops in that regard.

Making silencers without flaws is tough. Most companies don't do it. Ops stuff is heavy. But that fault is a lot easier recieved than a lot of others esspecially to the precision rifle crowd.

Surefire stuff I've heard is loud, Ops 30cal stuff is louder than AAC but deffinitely OK. The Gemtech Sandstorm probably sounds very close to Ops (possibly very slightly quieter I haven't seen a test) and seems like a really good product if it lives up to gemtech claims of not impacting balistics negatively. I held one in Idaho at Gemtech last winter just before the shot show, and it seemed incredible in my hands.

I made a small run of .308 silencers that weigh 19 ounces and group ~5/8" (5RDs HSM118LR @ 100yards) on my FNSPR, but they metered 141DB (over the hearing safe threshold) with a higher FRP so there's the flaw in my design. Sound. It sounds good to me, but the meters are industry standard testing and my right ear is pretty damaged from military service.
 
Re: How's a can help accuracy???

Okay, so I worked up a load that gets me back to 3/4" at 100 yards using the same bullet, seating depth, primer and powder. Thats close enough for me at this time with the can on.

Next item I would like to address is the following statment... "Recoil is reduced when shooting with a can."

Compared to what? I shot with just the blackout mount and with can...... pretty muct same recoil impulse. Now when I had the cooley comp on the rifle, recoil was MUCH MORE managable. I could stay on target after the shot. Now with the can, I need to totally find the target again.

Once again, not complaning, suppression level is great, just want to debunk the B.S. Maybe the compairison is not between a compensated rifle and a suppressed rifle, but even at that, I noticed no difference when shooting the blackout and shooting with can (other than the smoke and smell).

Maybe the fact that is on a semi is the major difference.