They say .5 MOA in the hands of a good shooter with Match rounds. They make it sound like that's tops, No better. When other brands boast AT LEAST .5 MOA, as if they make it sound easy. How does McMillan fair in accuracy against other top brands?
How's McMillan accuracy?
- Thread starter .Scarecrow.
- Start date
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
McMillan is a great company and their rifles shoot but for the price why not go with one of the other companies you speak of. Just opinion, so if McMillan is what you want get one, they are very nice.
My rifle that Mark at Short Action Customs built was probably $1000.00 cheaper then a McMillan and her maiden voyage shot 1/4-1/2 groups. It shot the 1/4" group after being broke in. I had no trouble hitting steel at 500-600 yards.
McMillan is a great company and their rifles shoot but for the price why not go with one of the other companies you speak of. Just opinion, so if McMillan is what you want get one, they are very nice.
My rifle that Mark at Short Action Customs built was probably $1000.00 cheaper then a McMillan and her maiden voyage shot 1/4-1/2 groups. It shot the 1/4" group after being broke in. I had no trouble hitting steel at 500-600 yards.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .Scarecrow.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What makes the accuracy? A better Match Grade Barrel? </div></div>
IMHO the smith makes the difference. Most all the aftermarket barrels who have a good reputation will shoot the same, it's who chambers, beds, and installs them is what makes the difference. Again, McMillan makes awesome rifles and they are shooters but unless you just want the name you could have just an accurate a rifle built buy a smith on here and the extra $1000-1500 you save could buy your glass or ammo. I'm not hating on McMillan but they haven't re-invented the wheel with their rifles, I don't understand why they cost close to $5000.
FYI, I have a McMillan stock and will always run them, I think they are the best. Got to show a little love
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .Scarecrow.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What makes the accuracy? A better Match Grade Barrel? </div></div>
IMHO the smith makes the difference. Most all the aftermarket barrels who have a good reputation will shoot the same, it's who chambers, beds, and installs them is what makes the difference. Again, McMillan makes awesome rifles and they are shooters but unless you just want the name you could have just an accurate a rifle built buy a smith on here and the extra $1000-1500 you save could buy your glass or ammo. I'm not hating on McMillan but they haven't re-invented the wheel with their rifles, I don't understand why they cost close to $5000.
FYI, I have a McMillan stock and will always run them, I think they are the best. Got to show a little love
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
I want to clarify, I don't have an issue with how McMillan rifles shoot or how their built, it's just price thing with me. McMillan rifles shoot lights out I just wouldn't spend the extra money, but thats me. I really wish McMillan would come back down to the market, I think their rifles would be more well known if they could sale more and let the gun do the talking. I have no doubt they would give GAPS snd Surgeons a run for their money. Plus, I would like to own one because I'll never pay $5200 for a $4000 rifle.
If you buy one, I have no doubt you will be happy with it though.
I want to clarify, I don't have an issue with how McMillan rifles shoot or how their built, it's just price thing with me. McMillan rifles shoot lights out I just wouldn't spend the extra money, but thats me. I really wish McMillan would come back down to the market, I think their rifles would be more well known if they could sale more and let the gun do the talking. I have no doubt they would give GAPS snd Surgeons a run for their money. Plus, I would like to own one because I'll never pay $5200 for a $4000 rifle.
If you buy one, I have no doubt you will be happy with it though.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
McMillan makes the winningst highpower rifle out there: Tubb2K. They know how to make great stocks, actions, and rifles. They also charge a special "McMillan premium." You'll have to decide if you want to pay that.
Regarding those accuracy guarantees, I'd take em with a grain of salt: especially the 1/4MOA ones. Many of the very best gunsmiths in the world refuse to provide a guarantee because they know, no matter what they do, there are too many variables out of their control. For example, you never know what kind of barrel you will get: even from the best makers until you take it out and shoot it regardless of how well the gunsmith chambers it. One gunsmith I ran into holds several world records in benchrest and has made many winning rifles for customers: he refused to provide an accuracy guarantee. In short, he was implying the guarantee is more of a marketing gimmick and he didn't play that game.
McMillan makes the winningst highpower rifle out there: Tubb2K. They know how to make great stocks, actions, and rifles. They also charge a special "McMillan premium." You'll have to decide if you want to pay that.
Regarding those accuracy guarantees, I'd take em with a grain of salt: especially the 1/4MOA ones. Many of the very best gunsmiths in the world refuse to provide a guarantee because they know, no matter what they do, there are too many variables out of their control. For example, you never know what kind of barrel you will get: even from the best makers until you take it out and shoot it regardless of how well the gunsmith chambers it. One gunsmith I ran into holds several world records in benchrest and has made many winning rifles for customers: he refused to provide an accuracy guarantee. In short, he was implying the guarantee is more of a marketing gimmick and he didn't play that game.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
I may have a custom rifle built. I am going to get a Manners stock so I could save money. The only issue is weight. The McMillan TAC-338 is 11.7 lbs, not bad for a .338. And if I get a custom rifle built I don't want to get it and find its 14 lbs with nothing on it.
I may have a custom rifle built. I am going to get a Manners stock so I could save money. The only issue is weight. The McMillan TAC-338 is 11.7 lbs, not bad for a .338. And if I get a custom rifle built I don't want to get it and find its 14 lbs with nothing on it.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
McMillan rifles are great but I place them in more of a high end factory class instead of custom.
McMillan rifles are great but I place them in more of a high end factory class instead of custom.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
I have found that they are great to deal with, and the rifles are all that they say they are,I watched my 20 year old son put 14 shots from a 338 LM through just about the same hole. him not me!!
250 gr factory ammo. never an issue with that company. just my .02
I have found that they are great to deal with, and the rifles are all that they say they are,I watched my 20 year old son put 14 shots from a 338 LM through just about the same hole. him not me!!
250 gr factory ammo. never an issue with that company. just my .02
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mirnyx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's a significant number of taliban who would tell you they're pretty accurate if they weren't dead. </div></div>
The longest recorded kill was made with a Mcmillan Tac .50. 2430m
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mirnyx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's a significant number of taliban who would tell you they're pretty accurate if they weren't dead. </div></div>
The longest recorded kill was made with a Mcmillan Tac .50. 2430m
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Truckman11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mirnyx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's a significant number of taliban who would tell you they're pretty accurate if they weren't dead. </div></div>
The longest recorded kill was made with a Mcmillan Tac .50. 2430m </div></div>
That was true until 2009.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_recorded_sniper_kills
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Truckman11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mirnyx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's a significant number of taliban who would tell you they're pretty accurate if they weren't dead. </div></div>
The longest recorded kill was made with a Mcmillan Tac .50. 2430m </div></div>
That was true until 2009.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_recorded_sniper_kills
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">McMillan makes the winningst highpower rifle out there: Tubb2K. They know how to make great stocks, actions, and rifles. They also charge a special "McMillan premium." You'll have to decide if you want to pay that.
Regarding those accuracy guarantees, I'd take em with a grain of salt: especially the 1/4MOA ones. Many of the very best gunsmiths in the world refuse to provide a guarantee because they know, no matter what they do, there are too many variables out of their control. For example, you never know what kind of barrel you will get: even from the best makers until you take it out and shoot it regardless of how well the gunsmith chambers it. One gunsmith I ran into holds several world records in benchrest and has made many winning rifles for customers: he refused to provide an accuracy guarantee. In short, he was implying the guarantee is more of a marketing gimmick and he didn't play that game. </div></div>
So your basically saying, No match barrel is really better than the other. Could I get a McMillan and send it to a Smith to tweak it for top performance?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">McMillan makes the winningst highpower rifle out there: Tubb2K. They know how to make great stocks, actions, and rifles. They also charge a special "McMillan premium." You'll have to decide if you want to pay that.
Regarding those accuracy guarantees, I'd take em with a grain of salt: especially the 1/4MOA ones. Many of the very best gunsmiths in the world refuse to provide a guarantee because they know, no matter what they do, there are too many variables out of their control. For example, you never know what kind of barrel you will get: even from the best makers until you take it out and shoot it regardless of how well the gunsmith chambers it. One gunsmith I ran into holds several world records in benchrest and has made many winning rifles for customers: he refused to provide an accuracy guarantee. In short, he was implying the guarantee is more of a marketing gimmick and he didn't play that game. </div></div>
So your basically saying, No match barrel is really better than the other. Could I get a McMillan and send it to a Smith to tweak it for top performance?
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
As in better than a stock McMillan? I'm just asking for help here bro, I don't want this to turn into my experiences at M4carbine.
As in better than a stock McMillan? I'm just asking for help here bro, I don't want this to turn into my experiences at M4carbine.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .Scarecrow.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could I get a McMillan and send it to a Smith to tweak it for top performance? </div></div>
What about the McMillan has you thinking this is needed?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .Scarecrow.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could I get a McMillan and send it to a Smith to tweak it for top performance? </div></div>
What about the McMillan has you thinking this is needed?
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
McMillan says it can achieve .5 MOA
Other brands say .5 MOA or better. Idk if thats just a marketing gimmick or what. And I'm gonna ask you, take it easy on me.
McMillan says it can achieve .5 MOA
Other brands say .5 MOA or better. Idk if thats just a marketing gimmick or what. And I'm gonna ask you, take it easy on me.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
I think your questions are legitimate, but like others have said, you are paying for the name. The extra $1200 is covering their overhead. If you are okay with that then buy one. In no way is this meant to be degrading or offensive, but if you have to ask these questions, you probably arent capable as a shooter to close the gap between .5 moa and .25 moa.
I think your questions are legitimate, but like others have said, you are paying for the name. The extra $1200 is covering their overhead. If you are okay with that then buy one. In no way is this meant to be degrading or offensive, but if you have to ask these questions, you probably arent capable as a shooter to close the gap between .5 moa and .25 moa.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
Well, I am just getting into buying rifles and have, well I'll tell you the truth, no experience in long range shooting. I just want to get my facts straight before buying a rifle or having one made. And please explain more on Closing the Gap
Well, I am just getting into buying rifles and have, well I'll tell you the truth, no experience in long range shooting. I just want to get my facts straight before buying a rifle or having one made. And please explain more on Closing the Gap
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
Scarecrow,
Accuracy is primarily about barrels, bullets, and the chambering job. You must have a top notch barrel, the best bullets, and a gunsmith that consistently does top-notch work. When I said "you never know what kind of barrel you will get" I was implying you are starting with the best brands/quality, but there will still be differences amongst barrels. some will shoot better than others for no apparent reason. 1/2MOA for a 5 shot group would be the worst accuracy I would expect if I used the best barrel, bullets, and gunsmith.
As a newbie, I'd suggest you just buy a used rifle made from a reputable maker: GA Precision comes to mind. Shoot it a lot and learn a lot. Don't have a custom gun made until you know more. The alternative is to spend a lot of money and learn later that it is not quite what you want. Sell it, spend some more money and learn it is not quite what you want. Around the 3rd rifle you build, you will finally start learning what you want and who is who in the gunsmith world. Ask me how I know about the expensive way to learn.
Scarecrow,
Accuracy is primarily about barrels, bullets, and the chambering job. You must have a top notch barrel, the best bullets, and a gunsmith that consistently does top-notch work. When I said "you never know what kind of barrel you will get" I was implying you are starting with the best brands/quality, but there will still be differences amongst barrels. some will shoot better than others for no apparent reason. 1/2MOA for a 5 shot group would be the worst accuracy I would expect if I used the best barrel, bullets, and gunsmith.
As a newbie, I'd suggest you just buy a used rifle made from a reputable maker: GA Precision comes to mind. Shoot it a lot and learn a lot. Don't have a custom gun made until you know more. The alternative is to spend a lot of money and learn later that it is not quite what you want. Sell it, spend some more money and learn it is not quite what you want. Around the 3rd rifle you build, you will finally start learning what you want and who is who in the gunsmith world. Ask me how I know about the expensive way to learn.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
So are you saying the expensive route is to keep buying and selling guns, compared to buying a used one and shooting it a lot and learning the most from 1 rifle.
So are you saying the expensive route is to keep buying and selling guns, compared to buying a used one and shooting it a lot and learning the most from 1 rifle.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
Scarecrow consider that when a reputable manufacture puts 1/2 MOA on an advertisement, the overwhelming odds are the rifle will shoot better; but why open yourself up to phone calls and bashing b/c someone who has the money to buy one but lacks the skill or related knowledge to consistently achieve that level of accuracy?
Here is another thought - there are numerous threads on here about how an AI is typically regarded as not quite as accurate as a GAP (insert custom name here); and yet it is not uncommon to see sub 1/2 MOA groups posted by AI shooters - why is that?
You seem to be fixed on an accuracy guarantee from a manufacturer. You shouldn't be.
It is the singer, not the song.
Good luck
Scarecrow consider that when a reputable manufacture puts 1/2 MOA on an advertisement, the overwhelming odds are the rifle will shoot better; but why open yourself up to phone calls and bashing b/c someone who has the money to buy one but lacks the skill or related knowledge to consistently achieve that level of accuracy?
Here is another thought - there are numerous threads on here about how an AI is typically regarded as not quite as accurate as a GAP (insert custom name here); and yet it is not uncommon to see sub 1/2 MOA groups posted by AI shooters - why is that?
You seem to be fixed on an accuracy guarantee from a manufacturer. You shouldn't be.
It is the singer, not the song.
Good luck
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
What I got from you and Shooter PIE is... Buy a used rifle and learn the basics of long range shooting instead of shelling out thousands and sucking and looking Tacticool, Makes a lot of sense. And that it is more shooter error that cause less impressive groups. .5 MOA might be the group of an average shooter when a total pro can pull .25. I know what I am going to do
Buy a less expensive possibly used rifle, GAP or maybe a Savage, learn to shoot well with those types of riles. Find out what I like and don't like about it over the years. And make a decision based upon that experience. Pretty sure I'm going with a Manners T4A though, I think I can know that right now. It looks solid and comfortable. But anyways, How does that plan sound?
What I got from you and Shooter PIE is... Buy a used rifle and learn the basics of long range shooting instead of shelling out thousands and sucking and looking Tacticool, Makes a lot of sense. And that it is more shooter error that cause less impressive groups. .5 MOA might be the group of an average shooter when a total pro can pull .25. I know what I am going to do
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
If you shoot a .308 consider that a good barrel should see 8k - 10k rounds.
A used GAP with 3k - 4k, a mod'd R700, Badger metal and AICS box mag, and a McM or Manners probably sells for @ $2,000 +/-. Barreled actions also turn up for less.
Good luck
If you shoot a .308 consider that a good barrel should see 8k - 10k rounds.
A used GAP with 3k - 4k, a mod'd R700, Badger metal and AICS box mag, and a McM or Manners probably sells for @ $2,000 +/-. Barreled actions also turn up for less.
Good luck
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
I shot my GA Precision side by side with a McMillian at a multiple-day precision rifle course from 25 to 600 yards. Both were under 1/2 moa consistently cold or hot bore. I compared the rifles and both were high quality and solidly built. The biggest difference was the higher price and brand name of McMillian. I did not think it was worth it.
I shot my GA Precision side by side with a McMillian at a multiple-day precision rifle course from 25 to 600 yards. Both were under 1/2 moa consistently cold or hot bore. I compared the rifles and both were high quality and solidly built. The biggest difference was the higher price and brand name of McMillian. I did not think it was worth it.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
As a McMillan Tac-308 owner/shooter, I've got to say the accuracy is superb. Mine has a 24" Schnieder barrel and suppressed.
I did loads of research before ordering but had to have a McMillan.
Still, I agree with vkc as I've shot next to GAP rifles and accuracy is so similar that it's still going to fall on shooter skill.
As a McMillan Tac-308 owner/shooter, I've got to say the accuracy is superb. Mine has a 24" Schnieder barrel and suppressed.
I did loads of research before ordering but had to have a McMillan.
Still, I agree with vkc as I've shot next to GAP rifles and accuracy is so similar that it's still going to fall on shooter skill.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
I think with McMillan maybe you are paying a little for the name, but that might be the case with all manufacturers right? At least its around $1500 less than an AI that weighs 4 lbs more. I think when in fact I want my dream .338 built, I might go with Short Action Customs. I've heard nothing but amazing about Mark. I just wish he would be able to give me a quote on Weight. It's kind of critical for me.
I think with McMillan maybe you are paying a little for the name, but that might be the case with all manufacturers right? At least its around $1500 less than an AI that weighs 4 lbs more. I think when in fact I want my dream .338 built, I might go with Short Action Customs. I've heard nothing but amazing about Mark. I just wish he would be able to give me a quote on Weight. It's kind of critical for me.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
I also have a McMillan tac-308 with 24" barrel. I am also new to long range shooting. Did alot of research and ended up buying McMillan. They have excellent customer service and have lots to offer besides just the rifle. Me and my fiance just took their beginners training course, put on by GPS Sniper school. This course came complimentary with the rifle and was very informative. We had an excellent time with those guys. I would highly recommend McMillan to anyone.
I also have a McMillan tac-308 with 24" barrel. I am also new to long range shooting. Did alot of research and ended up buying McMillan. They have excellent customer service and have lots to offer besides just the rifle. Me and my fiance just took their beginners training course, put on by GPS Sniper school. This course came complimentary with the rifle and was very informative. We had an excellent time with those guys. I would highly recommend McMillan to anyone.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
My buddy took that course recently with his M1A. When you factor in the cost of that course they included, the overall price of the rifle was pretty reasonable.
My buddy took that course recently with his M1A. When you factor in the cost of that course they included, the overall price of the rifle was pretty reasonable.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBlue&Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My buddy took that course recently with his M1A. When you factor in the cost of that course they included, the overall price of the rifle was pretty reasonable. </div></div>
Depnds on where you live. I thought about that but would have to pay $800 round trip ticket, plus lodging, plus food. McMillan doesn't do anything better or worse then GA Precision, APA, S.A.C. Or anyone else. They are a great company with great product.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBlue&Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My buddy took that course recently with his M1A. When you factor in the cost of that course they included, the overall price of the rifle was pretty reasonable. </div></div>
Depnds on where you live. I thought about that but would have to pay $800 round trip ticket, plus lodging, plus food. McMillan doesn't do anything better or worse then GA Precision, APA, S.A.C. Or anyone else. They are a great company with great product.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
This really comes down to what you are willing to spend. Most of us here, competitive or not, try to remove as many mechanical variables as possible thereby focusing on our own skills but there are exceptions. -My buddy's Savage can hang with my custom Surgeon Scalpel at a fraction of the price. As much as I hate to admit it, I believe he is a more committed/better shooter than myself. If you are willing to put the time into hardcore reloading dev. and time behind the rifle you can eek out every ounce of you and your rifle's true potential.
Also remember, Just because it shoots bugholes at 100 doesn't mean it will shoot 1 moa at 1000 and vice versa.
A lot of the time we buy based on reputaion and brand prestige. It's not about getting noticed at the range, it's about improving who we are as shooters. Mcmillan, Gap, Surgeon, Savage,
buy what you can afford and shoot it repeatedly....
This really comes down to what you are willing to spend. Most of us here, competitive or not, try to remove as many mechanical variables as possible thereby focusing on our own skills but there are exceptions. -My buddy's Savage can hang with my custom Surgeon Scalpel at a fraction of the price. As much as I hate to admit it, I believe he is a more committed/better shooter than myself. If you are willing to put the time into hardcore reloading dev. and time behind the rifle you can eek out every ounce of you and your rifle's true potential.
Also remember, Just because it shoots bugholes at 100 doesn't mean it will shoot 1 moa at 1000 and vice versa.
A lot of the time we buy based on reputaion and brand prestige. It's not about getting noticed at the range, it's about improving who we are as shooters. Mcmillan, Gap, Surgeon, Savage,
buy what you can afford and shoot it repeatedly....
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't have a custom gun made until you know more.</div></div>
Best advice yet. I'd go with a ~$1000 Rem. 5R mil-spec or Savage in .308, fit the stock with a Carsten cheek piece and put the rest into a really good scope, quality rail/rings and an Atlas bipod. You can shoot FGGM 175s or Applied Ballistic's OTMs if you aren't set up to handload. Shoot the hell out of it, then get something custom.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't have a custom gun made until you know more.</div></div>
Best advice yet. I'd go with a ~$1000 Rem. 5R mil-spec or Savage in .308, fit the stock with a Carsten cheek piece and put the rest into a really good scope, quality rail/rings and an Atlas bipod. You can shoot FGGM 175s or Applied Ballistic's OTMs if you aren't set up to handload. Shoot the hell out of it, then get something custom.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
I still may go with a McMillan, if anyone can give me a quote on weight and keep it at or under 11.75 lbs (McMillan TAC-338 weight) then I think I'll go custom.
I still may go with a McMillan, if anyone can give me a quote on weight and keep it at or under 11.75 lbs (McMillan TAC-338 weight) then I think I'll go custom.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
Just keep your options open. Look at everything that is offered. I had a 338 Lapua built and I love it. UGSW built mine (now BlackOps Precision). Mike does awesome work, and is great to deal with. Mine tips the scale at 15.5lbs but thats with a AICS and viper skins. Mine is built like a tank.
http://blackopsprecision.com/
Just keep your options open. Look at everything that is offered. I had a 338 Lapua built and I love it. UGSW built mine (now BlackOps Precision). Mike does awesome work, and is great to deal with. Mine tips the scale at 15.5lbs but thats with a AICS and viper skins. Mine is built like a tank.
http://blackopsprecision.com/
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just keep your options open. Look at everything that is offered. I had a 338 Lapua built and I love it. UGSW built mine (now BlackOps Precision). Mike does awesome work, and is great to deal with. Mine tips the scale at 15.5lbs but thats with a AICS and viper skins. Mine is built like a tank.
http://blackopsprecision.com/ </div></div>
Now is that the weight fully equipped? Whats the specs on it, Barrel length and stuff
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just keep your options open. Look at everything that is offered. I had a 338 Lapua built and I love it. UGSW built mine (now BlackOps Precision). Mike does awesome work, and is great to deal with. Mine tips the scale at 15.5lbs but thats with a AICS and viper skins. Mine is built like a tank.
http://blackopsprecision.com/ </div></div>
Now is that the weight fully equipped? Whats the specs on it, Barrel length and stuff
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
I'd say if you can afford it then go with it. If you have that kind of cash then do it. Nothing wrong with starting at the top equipment wise. If you don't like the features you can sell it later and get something else with little money lost.
IMO i like full custom. Primarily because of all the cool actions availlable. Big Horn with the floating bolt head is a neat idea. I love my Bat action, etc.
If you are new to long range a .308 is a good way to learn the wind (and a good spotting buddy). There is tons of good factory Match ammo availlable too. Buy a custom .308 shoot a few F-class matches and tactical matches and you will get a good feel for what your next rifle will be.
I'd say if you can afford it then go with it. If you have that kind of cash then do it. Nothing wrong with starting at the top equipment wise. If you don't like the features you can sell it later and get something else with little money lost.
IMO i like full custom. Primarily because of all the cool actions availlable. Big Horn with the floating bolt head is a neat idea. I love my Bat action, etc.
If you are new to long range a .308 is a good way to learn the wind (and a good spotting buddy). There is tons of good factory Match ammo availlable too. Buy a custom .308 shoot a few F-class matches and tactical matches and you will get a good feel for what your next rifle will be.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
I agree on going custom. You can build a helluva rifle for less than 5000.00 the only problem is waiting to get it done. If you dont want to wait spend the cash on a rifle that is already built.
I also think the moa guarantee after 100 yards has more to do with the shooter than the rifle, meaning that just because one shooter can hold half moa or better at longer ranges with a certain rifle doesnt mean that someone else can.
I agree on going custom. You can build a helluva rifle for less than 5000.00 the only problem is waiting to get it done. If you dont want to wait spend the cash on a rifle that is already built.
I also think the moa guarantee after 100 yards has more to do with the shooter than the rifle, meaning that just because one shooter can hold half moa or better at longer ranges with a certain rifle doesnt mean that someone else can.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
You can anything you want for what they are charging. No one wants to admit that there is no magic in building an accurate rifle. Just good quality parts that are machined and fitted together with attention to detail.
You can anything you want for what they are charging. No one wants to admit that there is no magic in building an accurate rifle. Just good quality parts that are machined and fitted together with attention to detail.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
You being a new shooter, I would strongly urge you to put your money into a quality factory rifle, good glass, and some match ammo. I'm just your average shooter, I really don't get to the range very often at all, but I can hold my own. My completely stock Rem 700 AAC-SD did the following group straight out of the box with FGMM ammo and a Vortex Viper PST. Learn where your baseline is, get the basics down and then start tricking things out, that way you know if something actually helps or hurts you.
You being a new shooter, I would strongly urge you to put your money into a quality factory rifle, good glass, and some match ammo. I'm just your average shooter, I really don't get to the range very often at all, but I can hold my own. My completely stock Rem 700 AAC-SD did the following group straight out of the box with FGMM ammo and a Vortex Viper PST. Learn where your baseline is, get the basics down and then start tricking things out, that way you know if something actually helps or hurts you.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
I attended the last McMillan sponsored GPS course with my McMillan M1A. It was a great experience, especially since I live in Phoenix metro. What you certainly get with McMillan is as much attention-to-detail in the entire rifle as you're used to getting in their stocks. Customer care is also premier--the McMillan crew including Kelly and Ryan came out both days to meet-and-greet and even hand deliver several rifles. I shot along side TAC-338, TAC-308, M40A1 and had a chance to shoot the TUB-2000 and TAC-50. They are all awesome rifles. The Tac Hunter 308 would be my field gun of choice if I could have my pick of any. That said ... my field gun is a Tikka T3 Scout, and my two other bolts are a TRG-22 and GAP Crusader. If I got a 338LM, I would go with a TRG-42.
I attended the last McMillan sponsored GPS course with my McMillan M1A. It was a great experience, especially since I live in Phoenix metro. What you certainly get with McMillan is as much attention-to-detail in the entire rifle as you're used to getting in their stocks. Customer care is also premier--the McMillan crew including Kelly and Ryan came out both days to meet-and-greet and even hand deliver several rifles. I shot along side TAC-338, TAC-308, M40A1 and had a chance to shoot the TUB-2000 and TAC-50. They are all awesome rifles. The Tac Hunter 308 would be my field gun of choice if I could have my pick of any. That said ... my field gun is a Tikka T3 Scout, and my two other bolts are a TRG-22 and GAP Crusader. If I got a 338LM, I would go with a TRG-42.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBlue&Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My buddy took that course recently with his M1A. When you factor in the cost of that course they included, the overall price of the rifle was pretty reasonable. </div></div>
Depnds on where you live. I thought about that but would have to pay $800 round trip ticket, plus lodging, plus food. McMillan doesn't do anything better or worse then GA Precision, APA, S.A.C. Or anyone else. They are a great company with great product. </div></div>
He spoke up!
I get what you are saying though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBlue&Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My buddy took that course recently with his M1A. When you factor in the cost of that course they included, the overall price of the rifle was pretty reasonable. </div></div>
Depnds on where you live. I thought about that but would have to pay $800 round trip ticket, plus lodging, plus food. McMillan doesn't do anything better or worse then GA Precision, APA, S.A.C. Or anyone else. They are a great company with great product. </div></div>
He spoke up!
I get what you are saying though.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
Scarecrow, You should realize that when a rifle manufacturer tests their rifles for accuracy they what to see what the rifle will normally be capable of in the best of conditions and circumstances. They are usually at the range at the crack of dawn when the ground and air temperature are the same and mirage is non-extistance. If the wind is blowing more that 5 mph or gusting they usually just go back to the shop. They have a big scope on the rifle, 20X-36X range so they can see any movement.
They have very good custom hand loads or match grade factory ammo and the rifle is rested on a heavy set of benchrest pedestals and sand bags. They want to test the rifle itself in the best of all conditions. If they shoot, say 5 ea. 5-shot groups and the smallest is 1/4 MOA then the rifle has proven it will shoot this good, at least once under the best of conditions.
Now, take the same rifle out to the range on a good hot day about 1 or 2 in the afternoon when the mirage is running about .5moa to 2moa, the wind is gusting about 8 to 16 mph in a 45 degree area of the compass. Set the rifle down on a flexible bipod and hand hold the buttstock, open up a box of your favorite mil-surp ammo and have a shooter who's fired maybe 100 rounds thru a rifle in the last year or so get down on the gun.
Do you think he will produce 1/4 moa groups every time. Well, maybe. Could happen, maybe.
Scarecrow, You should realize that when a rifle manufacturer tests their rifles for accuracy they what to see what the rifle will normally be capable of in the best of conditions and circumstances. They are usually at the range at the crack of dawn when the ground and air temperature are the same and mirage is non-extistance. If the wind is blowing more that 5 mph or gusting they usually just go back to the shop. They have a big scope on the rifle, 20X-36X range so they can see any movement.
They have very good custom hand loads or match grade factory ammo and the rifle is rested on a heavy set of benchrest pedestals and sand bags. They want to test the rifle itself in the best of all conditions. If they shoot, say 5 ea. 5-shot groups and the smallest is 1/4 MOA then the rifle has proven it will shoot this good, at least once under the best of conditions.
Now, take the same rifle out to the range on a good hot day about 1 or 2 in the afternoon when the mirage is running about .5moa to 2moa, the wind is gusting about 8 to 16 mph in a 45 degree area of the compass. Set the rifle down on a flexible bipod and hand hold the buttstock, open up a box of your favorite mil-surp ammo and have a shooter who's fired maybe 100 rounds thru a rifle in the last year or so get down on the gun.
Do you think he will produce 1/4 moa groups every time. Well, maybe. Could happen, maybe.
Re: How's McMillan accuracy?
I own two McMillians, an M86 and a Spectaclr. They are exceedingly accurate, but they are the most frustrating rifles I've come across. The reason is this, on a very good day, I can get the M86 under a 1/4 inch, and the Spectaclr under 1/10 inch at 100 yards -but not every day. The biggest variable is me, and those rifles will tell me very plainly when I don't have my act together, thus the frustration. I've spent enough to know it's not the ammo, glass or rifle.
I want to know how well I can shoot, so I run McMillians.
I have no doubt that an AI, GAP, or some customs are just as accurate, if not more so, but when I had a choice to get a new rifle, I got a McMillian.
As for Dick Davis' comment about accuracy being overstated, here's mine, the last time out with the Spectaclr, a fly waked across my target at 100 yards, I killed it.
I own two McMillians, an M86 and a Spectaclr. They are exceedingly accurate, but they are the most frustrating rifles I've come across. The reason is this, on a very good day, I can get the M86 under a 1/4 inch, and the Spectaclr under 1/10 inch at 100 yards -but not every day. The biggest variable is me, and those rifles will tell me very plainly when I don't have my act together, thus the frustration. I've spent enough to know it's not the ammo, glass or rifle.
I want to know how well I can shoot, so I run McMillians.
I have no doubt that an AI, GAP, or some customs are just as accurate, if not more so, but when I had a choice to get a new rifle, I got a McMillian.
As for Dick Davis' comment about accuracy being overstated, here's mine, the last time out with the Spectaclr, a fly waked across my target at 100 yards, I killed it.
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