Is there any reason why almost nobody is recommending this rifle? I see almost everyone going with AI, Sako TRG, GAP, etc…. From what I have read so far, this seems to be one of the best options out there (good price, high accuracy, nice fit and finish). Why isn’t this rifle as popular as some of the others? Would you recommend this rifle over…. let’s say a Sako TRG?
- Thread starter Kevin1
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Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
I've got a 20" in the FS section.
I've had it for about a year and could not ask for a more accurate rifle. Fit and finish is very good. Better safety, great trigger. Extraction is very positive unlike a Rem factory extractor, fits any Rem SA stock. I just never shoot 308 so I want to sell it to someone that will give it some love.
I've got a 20" in the FS section.
I've had it for about a year and could not ask for a more accurate rifle. Fit and finish is very good. Better safety, great trigger. Extraction is very positive unlike a Rem factory extractor, fits any Rem SA stock. I just never shoot 308 so I want to sell it to someone that will give it some love.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
It's a great rifle and I love them; would shoot one in a heart beat. But as far as "why" it's not as popular, it could be a number of things.
1) It's expensive for a factory rifle. Sure, not as expensive as an AW but it doesn't have AW's reputation either. It's way more expensive than a TRG and arguably doesn't have as great of features.
2) it's a factory rifle. Why by that in 308 when I can get a custom to my specs for only a few hundred dollars more?
3) The stock, although nice, is by far not the best out there.
It's a great rifle and I love them; would shoot one in a heart beat. But as far as "why" it's not as popular, it could be a number of things.
1) It's expensive for a factory rifle. Sure, not as expensive as an AW but it doesn't have AW's reputation either. It's way more expensive than a TRG and arguably doesn't have as great of features.
2) it's a factory rifle. Why by that in 308 when I can get a custom to my specs for only a few hundred dollars more?
3) The stock, although nice, is by far not the best out there.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
Mine came with the adj comb and LOP stock, but was a RH thumbhole. I'm a lefty.
I think they are more of a custom than a factory rifle. You can pick stock(as long as if is an HS) barrel length, fluting etc.
As far as there barrels, they are top of the line. I have rifles with Krieger, Bartlien, Broughton, Lilja and Shelien, the HS will shoot with all of them and will not foul up like a factory barrel.
When I first started LR shooting I bought a TRG in 308, Rifle was nice and had several features I loved, but my factory FN PBR/SPR would out shoot it all day long.
JMHO
Mine came with the adj comb and LOP stock, but was a RH thumbhole. I'm a lefty.
I think they are more of a custom than a factory rifle. You can pick stock(as long as if is an HS) barrel length, fluting etc.
As far as there barrels, they are top of the line. I have rifles with Krieger, Bartlien, Broughton, Lilja and Shelien, the HS will shoot with all of them and will not foul up like a factory barrel.
When I first started LR shooting I bought a TRG in 308, Rifle was nice and had several features I loved, but my factory FN PBR/SPR would out shoot it all day long.
JMHO
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
I liked the one's that I have owned from .223 to .338 Lapua. All good crazy accurate rifles. I probably should have just kept them instead of going to other brands. Now that I have my Tubb rifle, it suits the kind of shooting that I do extremely well. If you have a chance to buy an HS Precision at a fair price I doubt you will be unhappy.
I liked the one's that I have owned from .223 to .338 Lapua. All good crazy accurate rifles. I probably should have just kept them instead of going to other brands. Now that I have my Tubb rifle, it suits the kind of shooting that I do extremely well. If you have a chance to buy an HS Precision at a fair price I doubt you will be unhappy.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
The first custom rifle I ever purchased was a HS Precision. It was a fantastic shooting rifle. It killed a number of huge bucks and shot very small groups at the range.
I do feel that the HS Precision stock is not near the quality of a MCM or Manners.
When I purchased mine you could get a sick rifle for 2K. Rifles have went up since then. If I could get a 2K deal on new HS, I would jump on it
The first custom rifle I ever purchased was a HS Precision. It was a fantastic shooting rifle. It killed a number of huge bucks and shot very small groups at the range.
I do feel that the HS Precision stock is not near the quality of a MCM or Manners.
When I purchased mine you could get a sick rifle for 2K. Rifles have went up since then. If I could get a 2K deal on new HS, I would jump on it
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
I own an HTR 300 win. Not a fan. Get amazing 2 inch groups!!!!
I own an HTR 300 win. Not a fan. Get amazing 2 inch groups!!!!
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
I have had a .308 HTR for 8 yrs and it still shoots as good today as when new. sub 1/2 all day long if I do my part.
I have had a .308 HTR for 8 yrs and it still shoots as good today as when new. sub 1/2 all day long if I do my part.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shanksalot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own an HTR 300 win. Not a fan. Get amazing 2 inch groups!!!!</div></div>
I own a HTR in 300 WM, HUGE fan. I shoot consistent sub .5 moa 5 shot groups with mine. If you are shooting 2" groups I would call HS Precision, unless you are shooting from 400 yards or further. They have very good customer service. I would say there is an issue with your ammo, your rifle or your shooting. My rifle has easily lived up to its .5 moa guarantee. If yours isn't you should give them a call and see if they can help you out.
As to them not being more popular, I think Mike's observations are fairly accurate. I would put them at a "semi custom", not a true factory rifle, but not a true custom either. They really are a great rifle. I have been very pleased with both my rifle and the customer service I have recieved from HS Precision.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shanksalot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own an HTR 300 win. Not a fan. Get amazing 2 inch groups!!!!</div></div>
I own a HTR in 300 WM, HUGE fan. I shoot consistent sub .5 moa 5 shot groups with mine. If you are shooting 2" groups I would call HS Precision, unless you are shooting from 400 yards or further. They have very good customer service. I would say there is an issue with your ammo, your rifle or your shooting. My rifle has easily lived up to its .5 moa guarantee. If yours isn't you should give them a call and see if they can help you out.
As to them not being more popular, I think Mike's observations are fairly accurate. I would put them at a "semi custom", not a true factory rifle, but not a true custom either. They really are a great rifle. I have been very pleased with both my rifle and the customer service I have recieved from HS Precision.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is the whole Lon Horiuchi thing as well.
I know a few people that would never buy their products because of them using him to endorse their products. </div></div>
This for me as well. HS Precision will never see a penny from me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is the whole Lon Horiuchi thing as well.
I know a few people that would never buy their products because of them using him to endorse their products. </div></div>
This for me as well. HS Precision will never see a penny from me.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
Hey driftwood, give me some load suggestions!!!! Thanks. I need the help!!!
Hey driftwood, give me some load suggestions!!!! Thanks. I need the help!!!
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
I've had an HS Precision HTR for several years. The link below is a little old, but it demonstrates why it remains one of my favorite rifles. The only change I've made to the load described in the link, is I now use CCI 200 LR Primers.
CDAT
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1093063#Post1093063
I've had an HS Precision HTR for several years. The link below is a little old, but it demonstrates why it remains one of my favorite rifles. The only change I've made to the load described in the link, is I now use CCI 200 LR Primers.
CDAT
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1093063#Post1093063
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is the whole Lon Horiuchi thing as well.
I know a few people that would never buy their products because of them using him to endorse their products. </div></div>
you can put me in that category
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is the whole Lon Horiuchi thing as well.
I know a few people that would never buy their products because of them using him to endorse their products. </div></div>
you can put me in that category
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
I'm not sure that this has much to do with Lon Horiuchi. If so how would you explain people buying so many rifles with HS precision stocks (like Rem 5r or Savage).
I'm not sure that this has much to do with Lon Horiuchi. If so how would you explain people buying so many rifles with HS precision stocks (like Rem 5r or Savage).
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
sadly, it probably doesn't have much to do with it. heck, most people reading internet gun forums weren't even born when ruby ridge happened and have no idea. besides, look at the midway rear bag thread, or the pod loc clones. most people don't buy on principle, especially if they can save a few bucks. i mean, the company spokesman shot and killed an innocent, unarmed woman holding her baby. so what? right? obviously, if those charges weren't seriously enough to keep the gov from sending him to shoot more people at waco, it shouldn't keep people from following his gear endorsements. oh wait, he had immunity... but the surviving relative got $3.5m of your tax dollars, so it's all ok.
sadly, it probably doesn't have much to do with it. heck, most people reading internet gun forums weren't even born when ruby ridge happened and have no idea. besides, look at the midway rear bag thread, or the pod loc clones. most people don't buy on principle, especially if they can save a few bucks. i mean, the company spokesman shot and killed an innocent, unarmed woman holding her baby. so what? right? obviously, if those charges weren't seriously enough to keep the gov from sending him to shoot more people at waco, it shouldn't keep people from following his gear endorsements. oh wait, he had immunity... but the surviving relative got $3.5m of your tax dollars, so it's all ok.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
I've got two HS Precisions and I'm happy with them.
First is a lightweight sporter in 260 Rem for hunting deer and similar animals. Nice and light, good trigger, smooth bolt, easily shoots soda cans at 400 yards. I've got two loads put together that shoot the same, 120 Matchkings and 120 Pro Hunters. Couldn't ask for more.
Second, is an HTR in 338 LM. This one gave me a bit of trouble...groups at 100 are hit and miss, but at distance it shoots great. I've put 3 shots into about 7 inches at 1k before, but load development took me forever due to the inconsistency of group sizes at the short ranges. Tried multiple bullet weights and lots of powders only to finally just pick one and start running at the longer ranges and noticed that it was shooting better.
Never having a full on custom gun, I felt HS was a good semi-cusom option for a left handed shooter...they'll do any model in any SAAMI caliber...exactly what I was wanting.
Would I buy another? Probably not, but not any fault of theirs....my tastes has changed a bit and I want a full custom rifle next time.
I've got two HS Precisions and I'm happy with them.
First is a lightweight sporter in 260 Rem for hunting deer and similar animals. Nice and light, good trigger, smooth bolt, easily shoots soda cans at 400 yards. I've got two loads put together that shoot the same, 120 Matchkings and 120 Pro Hunters. Couldn't ask for more.
Second, is an HTR in 338 LM. This one gave me a bit of trouble...groups at 100 are hit and miss, but at distance it shoots great. I've put 3 shots into about 7 inches at 1k before, but load development took me forever due to the inconsistency of group sizes at the short ranges. Tried multiple bullet weights and lots of powders only to finally just pick one and start running at the longer ranges and noticed that it was shooting better.
Never having a full on custom gun, I felt HS was a good semi-cusom option for a left handed shooter...they'll do any model in any SAAMI caliber...exactly what I was wanting.
Would I buy another? Probably not, but not any fault of theirs....my tastes has changed a bit and I want a full custom rifle next time.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taliv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sadly, it probably doesn't have much to do with it. heck, most people reading internet gun forums weren't even born when ruby ridge happened and have no idea. besides, look at the midway rear bag thread, or the pod loc clones. most people don't buy on principle, especially if they can save a few bucks. i mean, the company spokesman shot and killed an innocent, unarmed woman holding her baby. so what? right? obviously, if those charges weren't seriously enough to keep the gov from sending him to shoot more people at waco, it shouldn't keep people from following his gear endorsements. oh wait, he had immunity... but the surviving relative got $3.5m of your tax dollars, so it's all ok. </div></div>
i absolutely buy or don't buy products based on principal. i don't think using the endorsement of the fbi's "sniper rifle program manager" is anywhere near the same thing as using a murderer as a spokes person. i haven't seen any proof that hsp used horiochi as a spokes person or as a payed employee.
that said, if hsp had what i wanted at a price i wanted to pay, i'd have no problem purchasing a rifle from them again.
what if that same agency selected rifles built by a popular builder on this site? what if the same person was in charge?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taliv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sadly, it probably doesn't have much to do with it. heck, most people reading internet gun forums weren't even born when ruby ridge happened and have no idea. besides, look at the midway rear bag thread, or the pod loc clones. most people don't buy on principle, especially if they can save a few bucks. i mean, the company spokesman shot and killed an innocent, unarmed woman holding her baby. so what? right? obviously, if those charges weren't seriously enough to keep the gov from sending him to shoot more people at waco, it shouldn't keep people from following his gear endorsements. oh wait, he had immunity... but the surviving relative got $3.5m of your tax dollars, so it's all ok. </div></div>
i absolutely buy or don't buy products based on principal. i don't think using the endorsement of the fbi's "sniper rifle program manager" is anywhere near the same thing as using a murderer as a spokes person. i haven't seen any proof that hsp used horiochi as a spokes person or as a payed employee.
that said, if hsp had what i wanted at a price i wanted to pay, i'd have no problem purchasing a rifle from them again.
what if that same agency selected rifles built by a popular builder on this site? what if the same person was in charge?
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: para1505</div><div class="ubbcode-body">who is Lon Horiuchi? PM me w/answer </div></div>
The first 200 rounds I shot were all Black Hills 190 Match. I was happy with the performance of this load. Once I finished my case of Black hills I used the brass and recreated the load that my rifle was tested at the factory with.
The load that my test target came with was
168 SMK
69.9 grains of RL19
Winchester case
Federal 215 primer
The tests targets included were both well under .5moa. I had similar results, but who buys a 300 WM to shoot a 168 bullet at relative low velocities? I wanted to find something that would duplicate the Blackhills Match I had shot earlier. I bought some 190 SMK and use RL22. I have tried a few powders IMR 4350 is one I had good luck wiht in the past. I can't tell you what my load was as I am not anywhere near my records and after having good luck with the 190 SMK / RL22 combination, I switched to the 200 SMK largely because Sierra also makes a 200 Game King. I hoped to use the same load for both bullets. I used 70 grains of RL22 which I chronographed at 2700 fps. Not a screamer by any sense but it was accurate and I have a mental barrier of loading over 70 grains as I can't get 100 loads out of a can of powder. A couple of years ago started listening to everyone singing the praises of Hornadys 208 Amax and H1000. I work overseas most of the time so I don't get as much time for load development as I would like. I have two loads with that combination that look promising. Both loads are above my 70 grain mental limit and my testing was done in the winter so I haven't had a chance to decide if I want to load the better of the two as its on the upper end of the charge limit. I found an accuracy node at 76 grains and a better one at 78 grains. I first varied my load by .5 grains to find those nodes. I loaded a second batch varying my load by .3 grains to see if I could improve last May, but I didn't get to shoot them before I went back overseas. I will be coming home in a few weeks and hope I get a chance to see how they perform.
I have called HSP several times to ask questions and have always found them very helpful. If your rifle isn't shooting as expected. Obviously make sure everything on your rifle is ok,like torqued to the proper specs and nothing is touching your barrel etc. If you think its your ammo, I would invest in some factory match ammo. If you can't get it to shoot with that, I would call HSP and let them know whats going on. I am sure they will help you out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: para1505</div><div class="ubbcode-body">who is Lon Horiuchi? PM me w/answer </div></div>
The first 200 rounds I shot were all Black Hills 190 Match. I was happy with the performance of this load. Once I finished my case of Black hills I used the brass and recreated the load that my rifle was tested at the factory with.
The load that my test target came with was
168 SMK
69.9 grains of RL19
Winchester case
Federal 215 primer
The tests targets included were both well under .5moa. I had similar results, but who buys a 300 WM to shoot a 168 bullet at relative low velocities? I wanted to find something that would duplicate the Blackhills Match I had shot earlier. I bought some 190 SMK and use RL22. I have tried a few powders IMR 4350 is one I had good luck wiht in the past. I can't tell you what my load was as I am not anywhere near my records and after having good luck with the 190 SMK / RL22 combination, I switched to the 200 SMK largely because Sierra also makes a 200 Game King. I hoped to use the same load for both bullets. I used 70 grains of RL22 which I chronographed at 2700 fps. Not a screamer by any sense but it was accurate and I have a mental barrier of loading over 70 grains as I can't get 100 loads out of a can of powder. A couple of years ago started listening to everyone singing the praises of Hornadys 208 Amax and H1000. I work overseas most of the time so I don't get as much time for load development as I would like. I have two loads with that combination that look promising. Both loads are above my 70 grain mental limit and my testing was done in the winter so I haven't had a chance to decide if I want to load the better of the two as its on the upper end of the charge limit. I found an accuracy node at 76 grains and a better one at 78 grains. I first varied my load by .5 grains to find those nodes. I loaded a second batch varying my load by .3 grains to see if I could improve last May, but I didn't get to shoot them before I went back overseas. I will be coming home in a few weeks and hope I get a chance to see how they perform.
I have called HSP several times to ask questions and have always found them very helpful. If your rifle isn't shooting as expected. Obviously make sure everything on your rifle is ok,like torqued to the proper specs and nothing is touching your barrel etc. If you think its your ammo, I would invest in some factory match ammo. If you can't get it to shoot with that, I would call HSP and let them know whats going on. I am sure they will help you out.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
Thanks Driftwood. I am like you. I have found that the gun will shoot 168's/175's as advertised. The 208's are giving me headaches.
Thanks Driftwood. I am like you. I have found that the gun will shoot 168's/175's as advertised. The 208's are giving me headaches.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taliv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sadly, it probably doesn't have much to do with it. heck, most people reading internet gun forums weren't even born when ruby ridge happened and have no idea. besides, look at the midway rear bag thread, or the pod loc clones. most people don't buy on principle, especially if they can save a few bucks. i mean, the company spokesman shot and killed an innocent, unarmed woman holding her baby. so what? right? obviously, if those charges weren't seriously enough to keep the gov from sending him to shoot more people at waco, it shouldn't keep people from following his gear endorsements. oh wait, he had immunity... but the surviving relative got $3.5m of your tax dollars, so it's all ok. </div></div>
i absolutely buy or don't buy products based on principal. i don't think using the endorsement of the fbi's "sniper rifle program manager" is anywhere near the same thing as using a murderer as a spokes person. i haven't seen any proof that hsp used horiochi as a spokes person or as a payed employee.
that said, if hsp had what i wanted at a price i wanted to pay, i'd have no problem purchasing a rifle from them again.
what if that same agency selected rifles built by a popular builder on this site? what if the same person was in charge? </div></div>
A quick search will turn up lots of info regarding him being hired on by HS. Followed of course by them back peddling.
Regardless check out the 08 HS catolag.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taliv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sadly, it probably doesn't have much to do with it. heck, most people reading internet gun forums weren't even born when ruby ridge happened and have no idea. besides, look at the midway rear bag thread, or the pod loc clones. most people don't buy on principle, especially if they can save a few bucks. i mean, the company spokesman shot and killed an innocent, unarmed woman holding her baby. so what? right? obviously, if those charges weren't seriously enough to keep the gov from sending him to shoot more people at waco, it shouldn't keep people from following his gear endorsements. oh wait, he had immunity... but the surviving relative got $3.5m of your tax dollars, so it's all ok. </div></div>
i absolutely buy or don't buy products based on principal. i don't think using the endorsement of the fbi's "sniper rifle program manager" is anywhere near the same thing as using a murderer as a spokes person. i haven't seen any proof that hsp used horiochi as a spokes person or as a payed employee.
that said, if hsp had what i wanted at a price i wanted to pay, i'd have no problem purchasing a rifle from them again.
what if that same agency selected rifles built by a popular builder on this site? what if the same person was in charge? </div></div>
A quick search will turn up lots of info regarding him being hired on by HS. Followed of course by them back peddling.
Regardless check out the 08 HS catolag.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cape_hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taliv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sadly, it probably doesn't have much to do with it. heck, most people reading internet gun forums weren't even born when ruby ridge happened and have no idea. besides, look at the midway rear bag thread, or the pod loc clones. most people don't buy on principle, especially if they can save a few bucks. i mean, the company spokesman shot and killed an innocent, unarmed woman holding her baby. so what? right? obviously, if those charges weren't seriously enough to keep the gov from sending him to shoot more people at waco, it shouldn't keep people from following his gear endorsements. oh wait, he had immunity... but the surviving relative got $3.5m of your tax dollars, so it's all ok. </div></div>
i absolutely buy or don't buy products based on principal. i don't think using the endorsement of the fbi's "sniper rifle program manager" is anywhere near the same thing as using a murderer as a spokes person. i haven't seen any proof that hsp used horiochi as a spokes person or as a payed employee.
that said, if hsp had what i wanted at a price i wanted to pay, i'd have no problem purchasing a rifle from them again.
what if that same agency selected rifles built by a popular builder on this site? what if the same person was in charge? </div></div>
A quick search will turn up lots of info regarding him being hired on by HS. Followed of course by them back peddling.
Regardless check out the 08 HS catolag. </div></div>
They absolutely did and I think it rightfully cost them a shit ton of business.
That was someone not using their heads over there at HS. The fact that there are much better products out there makes my decision even easier to never buy their crap.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cape_hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taliv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sadly, it probably doesn't have much to do with it. heck, most people reading internet gun forums weren't even born when ruby ridge happened and have no idea. besides, look at the midway rear bag thread, or the pod loc clones. most people don't buy on principle, especially if they can save a few bucks. i mean, the company spokesman shot and killed an innocent, unarmed woman holding her baby. so what? right? obviously, if those charges weren't seriously enough to keep the gov from sending him to shoot more people at waco, it shouldn't keep people from following his gear endorsements. oh wait, he had immunity... but the surviving relative got $3.5m of your tax dollars, so it's all ok. </div></div>
i absolutely buy or don't buy products based on principal. i don't think using the endorsement of the fbi's "sniper rifle program manager" is anywhere near the same thing as using a murderer as a spokes person. i haven't seen any proof that hsp used horiochi as a spokes person or as a payed employee.
that said, if hsp had what i wanted at a price i wanted to pay, i'd have no problem purchasing a rifle from them again.
what if that same agency selected rifles built by a popular builder on this site? what if the same person was in charge? </div></div>
A quick search will turn up lots of info regarding him being hired on by HS. Followed of course by them back peddling.
Regardless check out the 08 HS catolag. </div></div>
They absolutely did and I think it rightfully cost them a shit ton of business.
That was someone not using their heads over there at HS. The fact that there are much better products out there makes my decision even easier to never buy their crap.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cape_hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
i absolutely buy or don't buy products based on principal. i don't think using the endorsement of the fbi's "sniper rifle program manager" is anywhere near the same thing as using a murderer as a spokes person. i haven't seen any proof that hsp used horiochi as a spokes person or as a payed employee.
that said, if hsp had what i wanted at a price i wanted to pay, i'd have no problem purchasing a rifle from them again.
what if that same agency selected rifles built by a popular builder on this site? what if the same person was in charge? </div></div>
A quick search will turn up lots of info regarding him being hired on by HS. Followed of course by them back peddling.
Regardless check out the 08 HS catolag. </div></div>
i've seen the endorsement on that catalogue. that doesn't prove that they paid him. all that was, was an endorsement from the person in charge of selecting the sniper rifles for the fbi, who happened to be horiochi at the time. i'm still not sure how come having your rifles selected for a major agency isn't a big enough deal to advertise it.
i have looked a bit when this whole topic came up and i never found any proof that hsp payed horiuchi for that endorsement, had hired him or compensated him in any other way. since it is quick for you to find it, how about a link with some proof for the less talented internet searchers?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cape_hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
i absolutely buy or don't buy products based on principal. i don't think using the endorsement of the fbi's "sniper rifle program manager" is anywhere near the same thing as using a murderer as a spokes person. i haven't seen any proof that hsp used horiochi as a spokes person or as a payed employee.
that said, if hsp had what i wanted at a price i wanted to pay, i'd have no problem purchasing a rifle from them again.
what if that same agency selected rifles built by a popular builder on this site? what if the same person was in charge? </div></div>
A quick search will turn up lots of info regarding him being hired on by HS. Followed of course by them back peddling.
Regardless check out the 08 HS catolag. </div></div>
i've seen the endorsement on that catalogue. that doesn't prove that they paid him. all that was, was an endorsement from the person in charge of selecting the sniper rifles for the fbi, who happened to be horiochi at the time. i'm still not sure how come having your rifles selected for a major agency isn't a big enough deal to advertise it.
i have looked a bit when this whole topic came up and i never found any proof that hsp payed horiuchi for that endorsement, had hired him or compensated him in any other way. since it is quick for you to find it, how about a link with some proof for the less talented internet searchers?
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
Does it really matter if they paid him?
They used him to endorse their product. They affiliated themselves with him. They put his signature of approval on their product.
I couldnt care less whether or not money changed hands.
Does it really matter if they paid him?
They used him to endorse their product. They affiliated themselves with him. They put his signature of approval on their product.
I couldnt care less whether or not money changed hands.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They absolutely did and I think it rightfully cost them a shit ton of business.
That was someone not using their heads over there at HS. The fact that there are much better products out there makes my decision even easier to never buy their crap.
</div></div>
how do you know? have you seen the pay stubs from hsp to horiuchi? have you seen his w2's? if you say they "absolutely did", you had better have some proof other than an endorsement by him as the COTR for the fbi.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They absolutely did and I think it rightfully cost them a shit ton of business.
That was someone not using their heads over there at HS. The fact that there are much better products out there makes my decision even easier to never buy their crap.
</div></div>
how do you know? have you seen the pay stubs from hsp to horiuchi? have you seen his w2's? if you say they "absolutely did", you had better have some proof other than an endorsement by him as the COTR for the fbi.
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1kHIT
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Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does it really matter if they paid him?
They used him to endorse their product. They affiliated themselves with him. They put his signature of approval on their product.
I couldn't care less whether or not money changed hands. </div></div>
Nor could I. Well said...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does it really matter if they paid him?
They used him to endorse their product. They affiliated themselves with him. They put his signature of approval on their product.
I couldn't care less whether or not money changed hands. </div></div>
Nor could I. Well said...
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They absolutely did and I think it rightfully cost them a shit ton of business.
That was someone not using their heads over there at HS. The fact that there are much better products out there makes my decision even easier to never buy their crap.
</div></div>
how do you know? have you seen the pay stubs from hsp to horiuchi? have you seen his w2's? if you say they "absolutely did", you had better have some proof other than an endorsement by him as the COTR for the fbi. </div></div>
First of all, I had BETTER not have proof of anything. I'll say whatever the fuck I damn well please. You aint my father and you dont tell me what I can and cannot say.
Secondly, I wasnt responding to the fact that they pay him or not.....as my other post said I couldnt give a rats ass whether or not they paid him.
My response was to you saying that you have seen no proof that they used his endorsement.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i absolutely buy or don't buy products based on principal. i don't think using the endorsement of the fbi's "sniper rifle program manager" is anywhere near the same thing as using a murderer as a spokes person. <span style="font-weight: bold">i haven't seen any proof that hsp used horiochi as a spokes person</span> or as a payed employee.
</div></div>
I was simply stating that they did in fact use him to endorse their product and I provided proof of it.
Whether or not you like it is not my concern. If you want to solicit the business of a company that uses the name and word of a man that shoots unarmed women in the face to endorse their product, thats your business.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They absolutely did and I think it rightfully cost them a shit ton of business.
That was someone not using their heads over there at HS. The fact that there are much better products out there makes my decision even easier to never buy their crap.
</div></div>
how do you know? have you seen the pay stubs from hsp to horiuchi? have you seen his w2's? if you say they "absolutely did", you had better have some proof other than an endorsement by him as the COTR for the fbi. </div></div>
First of all, I had BETTER not have proof of anything. I'll say whatever the fuck I damn well please. You aint my father and you dont tell me what I can and cannot say.
Secondly, I wasnt responding to the fact that they pay him or not.....as my other post said I couldnt give a rats ass whether or not they paid him.
My response was to you saying that you have seen no proof that they used his endorsement.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i absolutely buy or don't buy products based on principal. i don't think using the endorsement of the fbi's "sniper rifle program manager" is anywhere near the same thing as using a murderer as a spokes person. <span style="font-weight: bold">i haven't seen any proof that hsp used horiochi as a spokes person</span> or as a payed employee.
</div></div>
I was simply stating that they did in fact use him to endorse their product and I provided proof of it.
Whether or not you like it is not my concern. If you want to solicit the business of a company that uses the name and word of a man that shoots unarmed women in the face to endorse their product, thats your business.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
Lofty I would not go as far as to say "I had better not have proof of anything." That's a risky slope that can get you indicted with slander.
Back on topic, if you look around and sped some time on gunbroker, it's possible to find a brand new htr for around $2500 or a used one around 2k . which makes it much more attractive at that price point.
Lofty I would not go as far as to say "I had better not have proof of anything." That's a risky slope that can get you indicted with slander.
Back on topic, if you look around and sped some time on gunbroker, it's possible to find a brand new htr for around $2500 or a used one around 2k . which makes it much more attractive at that price point.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
I appreciate your input but how could that be interpreted as slander? If anything it would be libel.
With that being said, I simply stated they used Horouchi to endorse their product. They did....I provided the cover of their catalog to prove it.
Secondly, unless HS was ashamed of their using that scumbags endorsement, how could they claim libel.
Libel is defined as written defamation. If Horouchi did nothing wrong, how can that be defamation? They chose to use his endorsement, not me. Horouchi chose to shoot an unarmed woman holding an infant in the face, not me.
If they think they can defend a legal case of libel because I stated the truth on an internet message board....well;
I appreciate your input but how could that be interpreted as slander? If anything it would be libel.
With that being said, I simply stated they used Horouchi to endorse their product. They did....I provided the cover of their catalog to prove it.
Secondly, unless HS was ashamed of their using that scumbags endorsement, how could they claim libel.
Libel is defined as written defamation. If Horouchi did nothing wrong, how can that be defamation? They chose to use his endorsement, not me. Horouchi chose to shoot an unarmed woman holding an infant in the face, not me.
If they think they can defend a legal case of libel because I stated the truth on an internet message board....well;
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
Sorry....I really get worked up over this issue.
I did 13 years as a law enforcement officer in one of the most crime ridden cities of Dade County Florida. I took my role as a protector of the constitution seriously. Law enforcement should not view themselves as an invading army. They are protectors of the peace and defenders of the rights and liberties of the people they serve.
The Ruby Ridge and Waco incidents infuriate me both as a retired LEO and as an American Citizen.
Im out on this subject, nuff said.
Sorry....I really get worked up over this issue.
I did 13 years as a law enforcement officer in one of the most crime ridden cities of Dade County Florida. I took my role as a protector of the constitution seriously. Law enforcement should not view themselves as an invading army. They are protectors of the peace and defenders of the rights and liberties of the people they serve.
The Ruby Ridge and Waco incidents infuriate me both as a retired LEO and as an American Citizen.
Im out on this subject, nuff said.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
I had one back in 2003
It was a tactical take down HTR at the time the price was $2500 and change
Rifle was accurate problem was it would not ignite any primers but Federal and CCI
Lake city and Milspec would not go off
HS said they would look at rifle but they only would test fire it with Federal Gold medal
I had one back in 2003
It was a tactical take down HTR at the time the price was $2500 and change
Rifle was accurate problem was it would not ignite any primers but Federal and CCI
Lake city and Milspec would not go off
HS said they would look at rifle but they only would test fire it with Federal Gold medal
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They absolutely did and I think it rightfully cost them a shit ton of business.
That was someone not using their heads over there at HS. The fact that there are much better products out there makes my decision even easier to never buy their crap.
</div></div>
how do you know? have you seen the pay stubs from hsp to horiuchi? have you seen his w2's? if you say they "absolutely did", you had better have some proof other than an endorsement by him as the COTR for the fbi. </div></div>
First of all, I had BETTER not have proof of anything. I'll say whatever the fuck I damn well please. You aint my father and you dont tell me what I can and cannot say.
Secondly, I wasnt responding to the fact that they pay him or not.....as my other post said I couldnt give a rats ass whether or not they paid him.
My response was to you saying that you have seen no proof that they used his endorsement.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i absolutely buy or don't buy products based on principal. i don't think using the endorsement of the fbi's "sniper rifle program manager" is anywhere near the same thing as using a murderer as a spokes person. <span style="font-weight: bold">i haven't seen any proof that hsp used horiochi as a spokes person</span> or as a payed employee.
</div></div>
I was simply stating that they did in fact use him to endorse their product and I provided proof of it.
Whether or not you like it is not my concern. If you want to solicit the business of a company that uses the name and word of a man that shoots unarmed women in the face to endorse their product, thats your business. </div></div>
RAWR! angry much?
go back and read the post of mine that you just re-quoted and originally responded to with "they absolutely did". i was asking for proof they used him as a spokes person, not that they used his endorsement. you replied with "they absolutely did". we all know they used his endorsement letter. no one is disputing that. he was the COTR for the fbi sniper rifle program. i recently wrote a letter to the manager of a restaurant commending them for how well the service and food was. am i now a spokes person for that restaurant? if they used that letter in one of their advertisements, would i then be a spokes person for that restaurant?
if that same person is still acting as the COTR for the fbi's sniper rifle program, will you come out and shit on any other company that is chosen to supply rifles for that agency?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
They absolutely did and I think it rightfully cost them a shit ton of business.
That was someone not using their heads over there at HS. The fact that there are much better products out there makes my decision even easier to never buy their crap.
</div></div>
how do you know? have you seen the pay stubs from hsp to horiuchi? have you seen his w2's? if you say they "absolutely did", you had better have some proof other than an endorsement by him as the COTR for the fbi. </div></div>
First of all, I had BETTER not have proof of anything. I'll say whatever the fuck I damn well please. You aint my father and you dont tell me what I can and cannot say.
Secondly, I wasnt responding to the fact that they pay him or not.....as my other post said I couldnt give a rats ass whether or not they paid him.
My response was to you saying that you have seen no proof that they used his endorsement.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i absolutely buy or don't buy products based on principal. i don't think using the endorsement of the fbi's "sniper rifle program manager" is anywhere near the same thing as using a murderer as a spokes person. <span style="font-weight: bold">i haven't seen any proof that hsp used horiochi as a spokes person</span> or as a payed employee.
</div></div>
I was simply stating that they did in fact use him to endorse their product and I provided proof of it.
Whether or not you like it is not my concern. If you want to solicit the business of a company that uses the name and word of a man that shoots unarmed women in the face to endorse their product, thats your business. </div></div>
RAWR! angry much?
go back and read the post of mine that you just re-quoted and originally responded to with "they absolutely did". i was asking for proof they used him as a spokes person, not that they used his endorsement. you replied with "they absolutely did". we all know they used his endorsement letter. no one is disputing that. he was the COTR for the fbi sniper rifle program. i recently wrote a letter to the manager of a restaurant commending them for how well the service and food was. am i now a spokes person for that restaurant? if they used that letter in one of their advertisements, would i then be a spokes person for that restaurant?
if that same person is still acting as the COTR for the fbi's sniper rifle program, will you come out and shit on any other company that is chosen to supply rifles for that agency?
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
Seriously?
Are you really arguing the semantics of whether or not he was a spokesperson or they simply used his statement endorsing their product to advertise their product?
They took his statement and used it in promotional material. They in affect endorsed his experience, training and character as a human being and as a federal law enforcement officer. Basically they said, "Look everyone, our products are so good, that Lon Houruchi and the FBI sniper program endorse our products".
Lon Houruchi pisses on the freedoms and rights of people in this country. He is a murder of unarmed women.
If he sent me a letter endorsing my company in any way, I would use a picture of me shitting on his letter to advertise my company and I would refuse to sell my product to him or anyone he worked for.
If I have to explain to you the fact that the semantics are irrelevant, then I can't help you.
Seriously?
Are you really arguing the semantics of whether or not he was a spokesperson or they simply used his statement endorsing their product to advertise their product?
They took his statement and used it in promotional material. They in affect endorsed his experience, training and character as a human being and as a federal law enforcement officer. Basically they said, "Look everyone, our products are so good, that Lon Houruchi and the FBI sniper program endorse our products".
Lon Houruchi pisses on the freedoms and rights of people in this country. He is a murder of unarmed women.
If he sent me a letter endorsing my company in any way, I would use a picture of me shitting on his letter to advertise my company and I would refuse to sell my product to him or anyone he worked for.
If I have to explain to you the fact that the semantics are irrelevant, then I can't help you.
Re: HS Precision PS 2000 HTR rifle: Why not popular?
Only one person knows what happened when LH pulled the trigger, and that's LH. He has to live with his decision, and he'll be judged by God whether or not what he did was justifiable in the end.
Only one person knows what happened when LH pulled the trigger, and that's LH. He has to live with his decision, and he'll be judged by God whether or not what he did was justifiable in the end.
