Hypothetical : Texas Secession
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I have Family in Texas. It'd be a pain in the ass to have to travel to a foreign country to visit them.
VooDoo
VooDoo
Thats a very small part of why we moved here 10 years ago.
It would suck to have to show a passport to get in and then apply for citizenship.
Wrong.
Texas averages about $140 billion overpay to the federal govt. every year. Rough numbers are: On average, Texans send $265-$320 billion per year to the federal government. On average, federal expenditures in Texas are $160 billion (with strings attached of course).
I'd go for it if we could fence off Austin, San Antonio and Houston (except for the port and refinery areas) and move the
We just need to move the capitol to Waco, or Killeen the gateway to the greatest place.
Go away troll. real Texans can make it happen.
We just need to move the capitol to Waco, or Killeen the gateway to the greatest place.
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not wrong, the information i use is just more expansive economic information
its not just the "check to and from the fed"
its the money multiplier that creates the economy
you/ government employee/ government paid employee spend a dollar to buy a drink
the store owner spends .85 of that dollar on a toy for his kid (its actually closer to 90-95% because the average American doesn't save 15% of their salary
that store owner buys a pack of gum with .50 of the 85 cents he just made
that single dollar is now worth 2.25$ in taxes
texas now pays taxes back in on the 2.25 not the original dollar
once the govt checks and payroll, pension, social security stop coming in, their multiple vanishes and the economy tanks
If Texas had to fight the federal government for succession, I’d get down there as fast as I could to help out my new neighbors.
If Texas was successful in succession, the first order of government should be to build the fence. That way we could protect ourselves from the influx of illegals from the north.
If Texas was successful in succession, the first order of government should be to build the fence. That way we could protect ourselves from the influx of illegals from the north.
Texas politicians rattle the "we will leave you all" line every time they need a boost in the polls and the Federal government is being extra evil.
They know it's never going to happen, it's all about politics and money.
The reality is it's not a realistic scenario that would ever be allowed or would happen, absent the complete collapse and break apart of the country.
They know it's never going to happen, it's all about politics and money.
The reality is it's not a realistic scenario that would ever be allowed or would happen, absent the complete collapse and break apart of the country.
$140 billion every year staying in the hands of the Texans who earned it Is much more powerful than the money multiplier on a pack of gum or a toy.
Why would pensions or social security go away? They don’t stop if I move to another country.
I’m not trying to be argumentative, I just think most don’t understand the big picture. I’m also passionate about Texas reasserting it’s status as an independent nation.
Secession sounds romantic, as an idea, actual implementation not so much. As I understand Texas has it written into its constitution that they reserve the right to split into as many as 5 individual states. Seems more plausible and would increase 2 senators to 10. Something to think about...
I have had the privilege to spend quite a bit of time in TX. I worked in Buda for 10 months back in the early 2000s and I go down there every year and shoot hogs. I was even down there during the "snowpocalypse" last year when the shit hit the fan and the grocery stores were out of food in about 12 hours. Like almost all states, it seems like the population centers are at the helm of politically ruining the state with left leaning policies. If you drive more than 10 minutes outside a metro area, the amount of Trump flags flying is astounding. I get the feeling that TX is even a good representation of the US, with the "normal" people living in more rural areas and smaller towns, and the wackos residing in Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston. It is actually pretty funny to watch the local news who tries to lean to the left, with little to no avail. They seem to get most of their viewership from the hot ass weather girls, which I like.
Some things about TX that I have noticed over the years:
1. The amount of entrepeneurs. So many of the folks I have gotten to know down there have their hands in all sorts of things, and make a great living doing it. Most of them own land, have a few cattle, and then have one or two other businesses that are also successful. Truly living the American dream. I love that.
2. The Mexican culture is intertwined deeply in the American culture in the part of Texas I visit, but they seem to co-exist in harmony. Lots of friendships between the two.
3. The land down there requires A LOT of work to keep up. I am always amazed at how quickly the brush and undergrowth take over if it isn't cleared annually. Boy can it produce though. I was blown away when I was told some of the ranches we hunt cut hay 4 times a year. Last year in MT there were many places that didn't get one.
4. Tons of good people.
I am all for TX seceding as long as MT, ID, WY, CO (minus Denver and CO Springs), NM (minus cities) and OK can join the party. That would be a hell of a country.
Some things about TX that I have noticed over the years:
1. The amount of entrepeneurs. So many of the folks I have gotten to know down there have their hands in all sorts of things, and make a great living doing it. Most of them own land, have a few cattle, and then have one or two other businesses that are also successful. Truly living the American dream. I love that.
2. The Mexican culture is intertwined deeply in the American culture in the part of Texas I visit, but they seem to co-exist in harmony. Lots of friendships between the two.
3. The land down there requires A LOT of work to keep up. I am always amazed at how quickly the brush and undergrowth take over if it isn't cleared annually. Boy can it produce though. I was blown away when I was told some of the ranches we hunt cut hay 4 times a year. Last year in MT there were many places that didn't get one.
4. Tons of good people.
I am all for TX seceding as long as MT, ID, WY, CO (minus Denver and CO Springs), NM (minus cities) and OK can join the party. That would be a hell of a country.
no argument at all..sorry if i came off that way
i minored in economics, so im trying to not bore everyone lol
in a pure snap shot all economic ideas look great, its when you start looking years down the road problems arise, just like they did in the US
you are 100% correct that the checks dont stop but that money dries up overtime unless Texas starts its own type of Social Security system
the income from the original SS and pension earners is on a downward slope toward "0"
from a quick look the MM in 2021 was 1.91 so lets say 2 for easy math
the current population that is getting a SS check will become a smaller part of the population over time so that 2k a month they can spend is now gone from the economy.
that 2k a month social security check was worth 4000...its now gone
4000$ a month is equal to the total revenue of a small business
that 1 person "loosing" social security just put that guy out of business and those employees are now unemployed
now those employees arent adding to the economy so their 500$ a that was worth 1000 is now gone
if that guy had just 4 employees that equals another small business total revenue 4x1000 = 4000 .....now the "other business" is out of business
and that money is not coming back, because the economy is on a down slope
additionally the price of goods and services around the world are still rising and inflation is still there
for us to really look at what will happen just on the MM effect
we need to look at the total income/expenditures/investments/tax breaks of monies that are originally funded by the US government
multiply that by 2, and remove that from the texas economy
that is a verrrrry general idea how it works
a quick check says that Texas has approx 150,000 people that work directly for the federal government (not including guy who mows the lawn, or fixes the AC at the office for the government paid employee)
now texas also has to fund/employ pay all those new out of work civilians who at one time or another worked for the Fed...there comes welfare
or you make them leave the state...no job out of the state
you cant make them get a job picking weeds like in china or india and fund their lifestyle, because in the "utopian Texas" its a free non-welfare meritocracy
there is the benefit of eliminating the need for a military (which is just a siphon of money in reality) because they are still on US soil and will never be "invaded". no state can afford a few f-18's just sitting around. several countries are unable to handle the costs.
its a very slippery slope
in theory a state could have exited the US up until about 1950 maybe 1960
but now the dollars are so big across the board, and the debt that the us can handle because of the 7trilion $ economy...the "texas" federal employee gets lost in the weeds
also toss in if the Fed really gets pissed and funds all the oil/ petro chemical refineries to be built in a USA state to eliminate and tariffs.
its a good exercise to "mind fuck" but thats it
edit...some wrong words...typing on my phone but you get the idea lol
Given the amount of industry that is here in Texas, I'm not sure that the USG could survive (i.e., pay its obligations) without Texas. That alone would make the halt of secession an immediate and necessary action. On top of that all of the defense manufacturers down here and critical defense assets that could be moved, but not quickly or without another $3T.
Yeah, its never going to happen. We can talk about it theoretically and stroke our egos at the thought of what we would do in the next Alamo situation but its not in the cards unless the US implodes and the states balkanize. If that happens everyone everywhere is fucked and there is no reason to run to Texas - every state has a new opportunity to be independent.
Yeah, its never going to happen. We can talk about it theoretically and stroke our egos at the thought of what we would do in the next Alamo situation but its not in the cards unless the US implodes and the states balkanize. If that happens everyone everywhere is fucked and there is no reason to run to Texas - every state has a new opportunity to be independent.
Just a point on the power grid in Texas. The grid experienced a transient period of excess demand due to an unforeseen weather anomaly. The only reason that this occurred was because the ERCOT had sold power to out of state clients. The board of ERCOT was subsequently revamped and there is a new law/rule that states that board members must be residents of Texas- so they have "skin in the game."
That said, secession of the State of Texas is a pipe dream. If you're gonna prep, prep for the zombie apocalypse. That is more likely to occur.
That said, secession of the State of Texas is a pipe dream. If you're gonna prep, prep for the zombie apocalypse. That is more likely to occur.
As a Texan whose ancestor was a casualty at the Battle of the Alamo March 6, 1836, I always thought Texas married down when it joined the Union.
If Texas were to secede we better have nukes, M1A tanks and and a fleet of F-22s, not to mention nuclear armed subs and warships because, everyone, including the U.S., will be wanting a piece of our ass.
If Texas were to secede we better have nukes, M1A tanks and and a fleet of F-22s, not to mention nuclear armed subs and warships because, everyone, including the U.S., will be wanting a piece of our ass.
You're making some wild assumptions. Assuming the ratio holds true.. Texas is paying more into SS than it is getting back. There is a lot of fraud in SS and it's various welfare components. Even so, Texas would replace it with something else, so it wouldn't just "disappear".
Same for the government workers. Texas will need to transition some of it's own management that was handled at the federal level. That will create some jobs.
Don't rule out how many Austin people would be running out of the state! And how many productive, hard working Americans would be relocating into Texas. Non-US born American's are twice as likely to be on welfare, 66% vs 33%. Can you imagine the level of illegal immigrants are a drain on welfare! Don't try to point to some liberal report that they are a net-positive.. no way. With those welfare stats north of 66% and them mostly doing 'business' in the black economy not paying taxes... Texas would come out WAY ahead.
Why would anyone leave especially the “Austiners”
If the state is free and tax advantageous the rich will become richer and the state will become be more top heavy.
Think of it really big picture.
No country on the planet runs “a profit”
Every country is in debt to someone or someones, but no one calls in the loan so the world moves forward.
Texas will be no different, they will be at a budget deficit
Once your at a budget deficit certain measures just creep in because money is “free”
You don't have to run a debt to have a country, it's just that the rich like it that way so they can get more shoveled to them at the expense of the taxpayer and the non working types are kept as democrat voters. Originally America was setup to essentially only have to have debt for special things that came up and then pay it all back as soon as possible, which REALLY pissed off the global bankers.
All you need is people who are willing to be hard and strong and refuse to let the government spend more than they take in.
Texas spends like $12 billion on illegal immigrants...
All you need is people who are willing to be hard and strong and refuse to let the government spend more than they take in.
Texas spends like $12 billion on illegal immigrants...
I doubt I’ll ever see Texas succession in my lifetime, however I do believe it would be in the best interest of Texas to stack the bill of rights into their state constitution tenfold while they can. And tell Austin to get to work and love the country their in, or else….
you are correct that you dont need debt to run a country
but if you dont want to be a 3rd world country you need debt
the expected standard of living is too high not to have debt
tell everyone in utopian texas that then cannot have a credit card or a mortgage or a car lease ... cash only...impossible
that mortage, credit card debt is held by someone/ institution in the texas country and they need the reserves to pay the bills if something happens
try building a business on cash only, not credit, not cash flow projections pure money in hand
not happening
a country is the same just larger
if you need to repair infrastructure and its a 2 billion 5 year plan on a certain bridge or port, if the utopian economy drops for a few months the bills cannot get paid and the building stops
those construction workers are out of work...money multiplier again
its impossible to say that utopian texas will have a "liquid bank account" that can afford billions of dollars of spending at will
...ok, so we just do a little debt of infrastructure and create municipal bonds that are triple tax free...you just created debt
i dont make the rules i just know how they how to work
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I Did it.
Sure you won't be some huge public multinational corporation, but yep you can actually build a very good long term stable business that lasts for decades and is fairly profitable for the owners using actual money in your bank account and relying on money in your account for purchasing stock / services / payroll.
It's just a matter of starting small and moving steadily forward as funds allow rather than leveraging yourself and trying to have everything at once.
We've run our business that way for over 20 years and don't have to worry about anybody having a piece of us.
too little way too late you already have been invaded by socialist from California so many infact your state is almost split in 1/2 with democratic voters and now what ever portion of the illegal hoard you got who knows out of the almost 40+ million . sucsession might be far too late an idea to save you from the zombie hoard on your door steps . best of luck
thousands of people do it every day...only a very few "grow"
additionally most privately owned business fail with in 25 years
in the beginning its easy:
sweat equity
sleep at the office
your personal output matters
when you are talking a state with 30 million people it doesnt scale properly
just because you were able to limit your expenditures and risk taking while staying in business doesnt mean that a government can
what happens when 2 hurricanes hit the coast, you dont have 10 years to skimp and sweat..
you need 500 million tomorrow, the back account has 100 million not ear marked for projects that are under way
what do you do?
let corpus or Houston be a barren wasteland, and have people live on the street
as i suggested before, everything works in a snap shot
reality is anything but
Being a native Austinite is like being a Native American. People will tell you you're the first native they've ever met and practically want to take a picture of you.
There's a bronze statue of my great uncle downtown with a sign Do Not Climb on Statue in front of it and the California/Florida/Chicago invaders stand back as their crotch fruit climb all over it. Then they go walking away asking 'Who was that guy?'
Exactly. Snowpocalypse 21. What a bunch of Nancies. Almost as bad as the old winch from nj in the fur coat screaming” we need help up here after hurricane “fagopocalypse””!
They are all talk until some bs weather reveal how mismanaged their shit is and they cry for dad.
it was already tried.
Back then it was done under the legal constitutional justification of the federal government's de facto nullification of the 9th and 10th Amendments.
Now, the result would be the same. You may have entered the union as free men, but the price of admission was far higher than anyone realized. Many of our smartest Founding Fathers knew this would happen. They were called Antifederalists.
If you are going to backstop everybody's risk that could be an issue, but the government doesn't need to be and shouldn't be the one covering the bad choices folks made if they won't pay into it up front. The whole business of privatize the profits and socialize the losses has to end.
The government has no need to be covering your house value if you lose it, that's between you and if you choose to have a private insurance company.
The government funds would be for repairing public infrastructure and paying for emergency services and workers.
I'm guessing you probably didn't look it up, but Texas actually has an emergency fund for critical issues that has like 11 billion in it right now.
That's how you handle things, much like responsible households, you build up a bit of savings for when bad times hit. If you have to borrow every time something bad happens, you need to re-evaluate your budget.
Oh and Houston being a barren wasteland would suit a lot of Texans just fine by the way...
People want to build in places where it's likely to flood, well that's on them and they can have private insurance if that's what they want to do.
Weather events happen regularly.
Places without cheap insurance and government "emergency funds" you'll find folks building a lot stronger buildings and being prepared for weather.
You realize that the disaster fund is funded by the economy
If the economy shrinks as it would in utopia Texas…that fund will be diverted or once used they would be unable to fill the coffers again to that level.
Also you do know who backs the private insurance companies…the fed.
State Farm goes bankrupt and the fed bails them out.
Or you can institute more oversight to private business and grow the government which is the issue.
As for people having money for a rainy day…how much will be mandated to be saved by civilians by the state?
People have different limits of risk, so you will have to make it a law…again big brother oversight
Need to think bigger picture and longer term.
You're welcome to stay in New York, but if people keep fleeing the state like they are, you'll definitely be depending more and more on the Fed.
No need to mandate.
The government is not there to bail you out, so if you don't want to save no problem, but the answer is NO if you want a handout.
You don't want to have any savings, that's fine, but don't come looking to the government to help you out when you run into a hiccup.
Why should the government bail them out? There is no need, if the insurance company goes bust well they went bust and their assets get divided up among those who are due money and the other insurance companies learn not to be so risky.
Again, we need to stop privatizing the profits while socializing the risk / losses. The big really rich folks try to blackmail the government and claim "too big to fail" when they get caught out by their own excess greed. Tough luck, no handouts.
If the economy shrinks, well the government has to spend less and sometimes that means proportionally less savings.
The Texas emergency fund goes up and down based on the economy it might hit a high of like 18 billion and then go down to 10 billion, like it has historically.
Politicians & government employees and big business like to think they can always spend tons of money and never have to seriously tighten the belt.
Well the hard working folks that pay the bills have to do that from time to time so that's that.
However more than likely the actual economic output of the State would grow assuming the politicians didn't mess things up as they are so often wont to do. IF the politicians had to actually face the reality of their decisions and if they do something that fucks up the economy, then tough for all their pet projects and their big donor's special favours and such. That is a feedback loop that encourages good decisions instead of what we have now where the politicians and government workers are shielded from the consequences of their bad decisions by endless borrowing and currency devaluation.
Big picture is not a problem, as far as long term, that's the problem, the people willing to be tough and deal with things and live within their means tend to eventually grow old and die and stupid folks figure out how to vote themselves gifts from the public purse and then we get where this country and most are right now.. slaves to debt.
I’m confused how my address plays a role in discussing how large economies function.
Long Island where I live has had separation from NYS spoken about at least once a generation.
Because we pay in more than we take on average.
One other part you might have missed is the commercial re-insurance market.
That's how insurance companies manage risks.
That's the way to handle it without the Government backstopping you.
Texas is prone to very severe weather events every 25 years or so.
So a lot of the big insurance companies carry re-insurance from someone bigger.
For example when one of the big storms hit 25 years ago, Allstate had so many claims they had to call in their re-insurance from Lloyds of London since their deductible had been met.
Ok
so in utopian Texas if you don’t save enough and your business burns down…and the insurance company can’t cover it fast enough..tough it out?
Take your family and live on the street
Or a big hurricane hits and the fund isn’t replenished yet so instead of borrowing money from another country you’ll let the infrastructure of Houston crumble and cost exponentially more in the future.
You are explaining exactly what happened when the USSR fell apart…Texas will be Belarus in time.
I’m also confused how “exports” will increase.
Once the tax breaks from the federal government are gone in utopia but are available or increased in North Carolina …where is dell or boing building the new plant…again shrinking the economy.
There are many segments of the market that stipulate a certain percentage of materials or parts are made in the USA, utopia will lose those products as well
…you just posted re-insurance…held by another larger entity
Ummm that’s long term debt outside of Texas
Whats the difference on long term debt through a contract or long term debt through T-Bonds…there isn’t they are both contracts.
The smart money takes the T-bond debt makes smart decisions and grows the economy rather than scraping by and hoping to grow one day as they are left behind.
Borrow US treasury bonds at 2%, then buy triple tax free bonds at 4% in the same countries market
I just made 2% revenue on cash flow while utopia is waiting to save enough for a new tractor.
No, it does not. And, you should just forget that the place exists. What I mean to say is that it does not exist. This thread is just a figment of your imagination. You are getting verrrry sleeeeeeepy…
Hmmmm...come and take it. Look up the battle and monument at San Jacinto.
Sadly I have to agree although here in central TX we're still very red. As far as Abbott goes, I've always he was all hat and no cattle just like "Pecos" Perry. They all talk big and not shit happens. I mean look at the shit hole Austin has become, can't the governor do something about cleaning up our state capitol for God's sake?
You know, I hate to sound like a grammar Nazi, and Lord knows I've made plenty of mistakes myself along those lines, but the word is spelled "secession" not "succession". Are we all slaves to auto-correct or something?
Damn, it feels SOOO good to get that off my chest!
Damn, it feels SOOO good to get that off my chest!
It's not too late. Even with election fraud in Texas Beto boy got spanked.
Now, let's get this secession thing going.
Texas population is around 29 million and there was 8 million votes in the election. Once ballot harvesting starts it's over.
And a margin of 900K votes isn't really a spanking. Especially since it was beta boy.
And a margin of 900K votes isn't really a spanking. Especially since it was beta boy.
Not worried about It Yankee. We have a secret plan to redirect all the Fentanyl coming across the border into Austin and then turn the city into a parking lot for the Gigafactory, then slowly repopulate from West Texas.
Words matterYou know, I hate to sound like a grammar Nazi, and Lord knows I've made plenty of mistakes myself along those lines, but the word is spelled "secession" not "succession". Are we all slaves to auto-correct or something?
Damn, it feels SOOO good to get that off my chest!
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