I can't figure out what is wrong?

[EricF517]

Well I am fairly pissed off. All of a sudden my rifle is giving me a bunch of horizontal stringing. I double checked my torque specs and got a 1/8 turn out of my front action screw, and a 1/4 turn from my rear action screw. Here is an example of my groups today, each is a different load.

Top right is 178 at 2.80, 43g TAC, FED Nato Brass, FGMM primer. Top right is the 178 at .005 off the lands.

Middle is 175 at 2.80 on left, Right is .005 off lands, with BR2 primers

Bottom is the 175 at 2.80 on left, Right is .005 off lands with FGMM primers.

Here is a 500y group that is the same load as the left bottom in the pic above, 1" target for reference.

Even my go to load has opened up horizontally

After everything was checked for torque, I went back out the range. Ok here is a good wtf moment, all at 300y. In the order they were shot. The second 44.5 Varget load is a little above average size group for what this rifle used to do.

FMMM168

Here is a group of Fgmm 168 from about 3 weeks ago

Rifle is a 10 FCP McM 24" 1:10 wit PST.

 

[RonPogi]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

Did you check your scope any movement, try to swap different scope.

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

You might have too much going on here...

Go back to your "go to" for familiarity sake... Or FGMM, which seemed to be shooting well, but since your groups have opened up you haven't tried any.... Try some.

Lots of variables could be here.

How long has the rifle been sitting up for?

Cleaning: Did you recently clean the piss out of it?
Could it possibly need to be cleaned?

You should narrow things down a bit, I'd start with pulling the carbon out of the bore IF it's been a while since you did a moderate cleaning, checking action, base & rings for torque and taking a known performer (FGMM) back to the range.

 

[EricF517]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

Well the 44.5 of Varget is my go to load. They have been around the house since April when I loaded 1k out of the same powder lot.

The bottom sets of groups where my 44.5 are posted were after about 2 days from the TAC loads.

Rifle was just cleaned before the starting of these targets. Usually only takes 2 rounds for it to settle back in.

FGMM was the one on the top pic of the 8x11 targets.

 

[groundhogbuster]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

Id get some factory Fed SMKs like said above, and see what happens. If it still does it, check base, rings, and scope, and swap scope out, I think you'll find your problem. Of course you can check everything out 1st as well, and unless you have a crapload of rounds downrange, I think you will figure it out.
Also check stock torque settings, and play with them as well. I've had a stock, totally screw my groups up.

 

[6brshooter]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

Is the stock bedded and have pillars? If factory, they are not pillared and action screw torque can crush the stock

 

[EricF517]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

6br that is why she is only at 50#'s which is the number that Savage gave me. Glad that I have never gone over that. She is not bedded.

I am going to have to pull the wife's PST off and give it a whirl on the Savage.

Groundhog I have already shot the rest of my 168's after checking everything.

 

[slowkota]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

Round count on barrel?

 

[tylerw02]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

Did you give it a good whack on the butt before re- torquing? Sometimes that recoil lug needs to be seated.


Horizontal....something screams wind or shooter rather than rifle.

 

[Rprecision]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

Two things come to mind,

Make sure everything is tight and be suspicious of the bedding

Is this a factory savage barrel ? They like to run fould full of copper. When you take it out, they do some strange things untill fowled again. This was in part why I rebarreled.

 

[EricF517]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slowkota</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Round count on barrel? </div></div>

467

Cleaned 3 times.

 

[EricF517]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you give it a good whack on the butt before re- torquing? Sometimes that recoil lug needs to be seated.


Horizontal....something screams wind or shooter rather than rifle. </div></div>

I know when I throw a round. When that same load was giving me 1-1.5" groups with the 44.5g Varget load.

 

[turbo54]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

Eric, at what yardage were the groups in the first picture (the one with 6 groups on one piece of paper) shot?

If that's 100 yards, you've got something seriously fucked.

Obviously, check to be sure your scope base, rings-to-base, and ring caps are tight. I assume you've done that and things are good.

Next, try the wife's "known good" scope. I've got a 3-15 NF laying around (already in rings - it's the "MULE" scope) you can borrow if you don't want to tear your wife's off.

If it aint the scope, your either your crown is fucked, you've got a terrible carbon ring, or the bore is fucked.

-check for obvious crown damage

-clean the bore as best you can, stuff a q-tip in the muzzle and shine a light in there. 4140 (the steel Savage barrels are made of) rusts very easily, and if you aren't really careful, can get some rust pitting in the bore pretty darn easy. You should be able to spot this with the qtip/light method.

-address a possible carbon ring with a bronze brush in a cordless drill.

PM me if you want to hook up this weekend to shoot, try my scope, and diagnose the rifle.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

Try it again. Like I said,environmentals or shooter are the most common horizontal stringing issues providing everything else seems right---like proper torque on the action screws, scope rings, base, etc.

If I am getting horizontal stringing, first thing I do is check my position to make sure I'm doing everything right, sometimes you aren't even when you don't "think" you threw them. Then I double check parallax. Then I'll make sure that I'm not missing wind between myself and the target.

If everything is tight, the rifle is in good shape, and NOTHING has physically changed, its either in the shooter or environment. Or the gremlins came out and tinkered with everything and a witch cast a spell on your barrel.

 

[anthonylapoint]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

When my rifle did this, it was the scope base. I didnt put fingernail polish on the screws and they would wiggle loose. I shot box after box of different loads, tried to tune the action screws...etc etc. Once I couldnt take it, I took everything apart. Thats when I found it. I also tighten my shit to 65 front and rear. Didnt crush the stock. It was a Savage 10 1-12 twist. Box ammo, it shot Hornady TAP FPD 155's almost threw the same hole after. Ill text you a pic if you want proof. To bad I sold the barrel.

 

[EricF517]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try it again. Like I said,environmentals or shooter are the most common horizontal stringing issues providing everything else seems right---like proper torque on the action screws, scope rings, base, etc.

If I am getting horizontal stringing, first thing I do is check my position to make sure I'm doing everything right, sometimes you aren't even when you don't "think" you threw them. Then I double check parallax. Then I'll make sure that I'm not missing wind between myself and the target.

If everything is tight, the rifle is in good shape, and NOTHING has physically changed, its either in the shooter or environment. Or the gremlins came out and tinkered with everything and a witch cast a spell on your barrel. </div></div>

It was raining a little the one day. I wonder if that made them little furry sons of bitches hatch LOL.

 

[Sharpsman]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

Anneal your brass!

 

[No Shitter]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

Checking base fasteners,is the best call.

 

[easygoose]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

That is some frustrating shooting. It's days like you've just had that led me to become really surgical with my routine. Cleaning regimen, brass prep, checking over torque setting before hand, etc...

Because you've named two things it could be attributed to, or a combination of (torque, barrel cleaning) but the problem is that if you don't start with all the same conditions every time you're really fartin in the wind trying to nail down one reason.

It also could be your throat starting to chase away but you've shot different kinds of ammo so that's hard to say as well.

My advice is to get a more regular and predictable cleaning regimen. Pick a load and stick with it. Check over your rifle before firing. And measure your rifling every 500 shots or so.

At least then you'll know it's not the rifle. We all have bad days too.

Oh and one last thought... is the temperature outside very different than usual when you shoot? Depending one your powder you may need to tweak that 44.5 accordingly.

Hope you get her figured out.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

Im with tyler, no offense but probably you or position or both

 

[81sfo]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

Switch brass to winchester nosler or lapua ....i had issues with some federal brass at one point. Threw my proven loads off .

 

[slowyellow]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

X's a lot on what everyone is saying about shooter/atmosphere if it isn't a base/mount issue. What was the wind doing on that day, and what was the distance on that first picture of targets. Hopefully you have gotten it figured out.

 

[EricF517]

Re: I can't figure out what is wrong?

It was the base. The front base was loose. I guess I didn't get loctite on it when I bedded to the action.