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I got pulled over.

Small details change everything:

You are in an airport walking to another terminal. A customs or immigration officer approaches and asks if you are a US citizen and you decide to talk to this officer.

He asks for your ID which you readily provide.

Now, here’s the tiny details:

He is looking at your ID and reading it, maybe talking into his mic. Are you detained:

Nope. A reasonable person would feel they could request the ID back and move along.

Let’s change a very small detail. The officer is looking at your ID (or your plane ticket), then puts it in his pocket and starts asking you questions. Are you detained:

Yes, now a reasonable person would feel like they do not have the ability to move along without the officer being the one to release them.

So, seizures/detentions can be very tricky things. Especially to non LE who are on the other side of the encounter.

The mere possession of your ID or belongings does not necessarily constitute a seizure. Most of that lies within the details of how said ID or property end up in the LEOs possession.
 
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avoid cops at all costs, they are armed agents of the two parties and have no problem taking your life and freedoms in an Unconstitutional manner. They are a danger to you and your freedom and that of your family. Nothing complex or heroic about it. A gang in blue to the end. With the gang in black in the amen corner.
 
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Dthomas3523 said:
I’m very familiar with terry (see my above posts about being detained (seized) when someone takes your ID of belongings).

I apologize if there was confusion, I thought you may have thought he seized your weapon as in an asset seizure/forfeiture.

It would also depend on the situation as to whether or not it would be considered a detention(seizure) and if so, would it be a legal detention.

If you call in burglary at your house, I show up, I see a weapon and I say something along the lines of “Sir, for your safety and mine, if you want me to enter the property, I’m going to need you to let me put your weapon in my unit until I’m done with my investigation,” and you agree and/or hand me the weapon, no detention/seizure. A reasonable person would feel that they are willingly allowing me to hold onto the weapon and could ask for it back/me to leave at anytime.

If I just take it......probably a detention/seizure.

However, if I can legally (key word) articulate that for the purposes of my investigation into the reported burglary, I felt the need to detain everyone on scene until I verified their identities......and whilst doing so I felt that you may be armed (and since the nature of the call is a buglary, possibly dangerous), I performed a terry frisk and found a weapon. I secured the weapon for your safety and mine which may constitute a detention/seizure, but you were either A) already detained or B) are now detained because of the weapon possibly increasing my suspicion of your involvement with the burglary.

So, there’s a two part question here:

Did the officer’s actions constitute what a reasonable person would consider a seizure/detention and if so, was that detention reasonable?

That’s why I was asking why you felt it was a detention/seizure and my next question would have been why you felt it was not reasonable.

As you likely know, the courts give a LEO very broad discretion as to how they can articulate reasonable suspicion as to a detention/seizure......especially when responding to calls and going in fairly blind.
Click to expand...

I was the complainant. Weapon was concealed, dispatcher asked. He asked me where the weapon was, asked me to remain still and took it off me. Definitely a seizure of my person.

In my state if they are holding your belongings you are not free to leave. But we also don’t have the Carroll Doctrine. Things are different here.
 
RyanScott said:
I was the complainant. Weapon was concealed, dispatcher asked. He asked me where the weapon was, asked me to remain still and took it off me. Definitely a seizure of my person.

In my state if they are holding your belongings you are not free to leave. But we also don’t have the Carroll Doctrine. Things are different here.
Click to expand...

What state doesn’t have Carroll? I’m genuinely curious.

So, it’s sounds like a seizure of your person. The next question, was it reasonable? Had the officer fully vetted you and determined you to be the owner/compainant? If not, court would like side with officer that he can articulate temporarily detaining (seizing) all subjects on scene until he completes his investigation or clears/vets each subject. Since the nature of the crime, and the fact he knows a gun is present, he is temporarily seizing the weapon of his safety and yours until he vetts/identifies all subjects on scene.


I’d have to know the individual state to be sure, but this is how it reads from cops end:

Dispatched to robbery scene, complainant says he has a weapon.

Officer know immediately a weapon could be involved. Doesn’t know exactly where who/what/how things are happening. Only has the “word” of the complainant (no offense) given to him second hand through dispatcher.

Cop knows the crime is a robbery and this can potentially come with armed encounters.

Cop decides to detain and disarm all parties involved until he/she can rule out individuals from taking part in the robbery.

From that point of view, few courts would not side with the officer and find the temporary detention of you and your weapon unreasonable.

Inconvenient, yep, unreasonable, probably not.
 
Working on page "13". You boys are tenacious. :LOL: There should be a reward involved, so here.


]
 
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j-huskey said:
Go back to your cell...???
Incarcerate yourself.
Click to expand...


BULLY


1524766121660.png
 
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Bender said:
I go in next Tuesday for final interview and official offer from County SO......
Click to expand...

Final interviews are customarily where you perform your first desk pop.

Tradition is, you make sure they don’t know you have your weapon on you, and either halfway through or when shaking ands at the end......you pop off.

Make sure it’s in a safe direction.
 
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Dthomas3523 said:
Final interviews are customarily where you perform your first desk pop.

Tradition is, you make sure they don’t know you have your weapon on you, and either halfway through or when shaking ands at the end......you pop off.

Make sure it’s in a safe direction.
Click to expand...
Wilco. My buddy has a full auto Glock, I think I’ll bring the 30rd mag. Nothing like a 1.8 second “desk pop”.
 
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ArmyJerry said:
Dont do it man, there is no upside at all.
Click to expand...
Huge pay cut, deal with assholes inside and assholes who hate “cops” 12 hour days.

Yes. You are not wrong.

But......

Here is where I chuckle at what other people think. Idgaf what others think..... lol. It’s a shit job that needs a decent guy on the inside. I might not even make it, to be honest. I LOATHE bureaucracy. I’m tired of sitting on the sidelines waiting for change. I’m destined to fail in changing anyone’s ideas. But sure as shit, I’m going to try..... call me altruistic. But the 4th and 10th amendments mean something, and since the Sheriffs office is THE LAW OF THE LAND. So pardon me please when I tell you, I don’t care.

If this all fails, I’ll take my past experience back to energy production and make 6 figures a year again.....

I’ll tell you this much though, I’m far from the “typical cop” I’ll be 40 next week. Im not a jock, im not a badge bunny, and if my final interview with the sheriff himself doesn’t go to MY liking ( if he is a politician or a not constitutionalist) I’m walking away... like I said, altruistic. I’m not a robot. I don’t “need” this job....

Guess we will see how it goes.

But both you, Jerry and Deersniper, are more like me than you might think.... or visa versa.....

Time will tell....

I’m sure as hell not in it for the money!!! ???
 
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Bender said:
Huge pay cut, deal with assholes inside and assholes who hate “cops” 12 hour days.

Yes. You are not wrong.

But......

Here is where I chuckle at what other people think. Idgaf what others think..... lol. It’s a shit job that needs a decent guy on the inside. I might not even make it, to be honest. I LOATHE bureaucracy. I’m tired of sitting on the sidelines waiting for change. I’m destined to fail in changing anyone’s ideas. But sure as shit, I’m going to try..... call me altruistic. But the 4th and 10th amendments mean something, and since the Sheriffs office is THE LAW OF THE LAND. So pardon me please when I tell you, I don’t care.

If this all fails, I’ll take my past experience back to energy production and make 6 figures a year again.....

I’ll tell you this much though, I’m far from the “typical cop” I’ll be 40 next week. Im not a jock, im not a badge bunny, and if my final interview with the sheriff himself doesn’t go to MY liking ( if he is a politician or a not constitutionalist) I’m walking away... like I said, altruistic. I’m not a robot. I don’t “need” this job....

Guess we will see how it goes.

But both you, Jerry and Deersniper, are more like me than you might think.... or visa versa.....

Time will tell....

I’m sure as hell not in it for the money!!! ???
Click to expand...

Just stay away from desk detail/jobs in LE if you don't like bureaucracy. I took one recently and I'm fighting and clawing to get back to the field.
 
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I am saving this post so I can refer to it when you go through the Blue Borg process, in one year you will be whining and saying I gotta get home safe no matter what, he failed to comply, yeah its okay to shoot a guy on his porch while blinding him and screaming at him at night through a bullhorn, and the classic, " you don't know what its like". Either way, don't become a pole smoker, use common sense, bulk up a bit take some mma training so you don't feel you need to shoot skinny jean wearers because they scare you. Be judicious and never trust a cop, they are all part of internal affairs and are coming for you.

Good luck and I hope you get what you want.

Bender said:
Huge pay cut, deal with assholes inside and assholes who hate “cops” 12 hour days.

Yes. You are not wrong.

But......

Here is where I chuckle at what other people think. Idgaf what others think..... lol. It’s a shit job that needs a decent guy on the inside. I might not even make it, to be honest. I LOATHE bureaucracy. I’m tired of sitting on the sidelines waiting for change. I’m destined to fail in changing anyone’s ideas. But sure as shit, I’m going to try..... call me altruistic. But the 4th and 10th amendments mean something, and since the Sheriffs office is THE LAW OF THE LAND. So pardon me please when I tell you, I don’t care.

If this all fails, I’ll take my past experience back to energy production and make 6 figures a year again.....

I’ll tell you this much though, I’m far from the “typical cop” I’ll be 40 next week. Im not a jock, im not a badge bunny, and if my final interview with the sheriff himself doesn’t go to MY liking ( if he is a politician or a constitutionalist) I’m walking away... like I said, altruistic. I’m not a robot. I don’t “need” this job....

Guess we will see how it goes.

But both you, Jerry and Deersniper, are more like me than you might think.... or visa versa.....

Time will tell....

I’m sure as hell not in it for the money!!! ???
Click to expand...
 
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ArmyJerry said:
I am saving this post so I can refer to it when you go through the Blue Borg process, in one year you will be whining and saying I gotta get home safe no matter what, he failed to comply, yeah its okay to shoot a guy on his porch while blinding him and screaming at him at night through a bullhorn, and the classic, " you don't know what its like". Either way, don't become a pole smoker, use common sense, bulk up a bit take some mma training so you don't feel you need to shoot skinny jean wearers because they scare you. Be judicious and never trust a cop, they are all part of internal affairs and are coming for you.

Good luck and I hope you get what you want.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I’m not small.... 6’2” and I used to bounce heavy metal concerts. I’m no bad ass... but I’m far from a pencil-necked 19yr old “cop”..... but fair enough.... I’ll let you all know how it goes....
 
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Yea def remeber to taze people in the foot and If they try to kill you with a car, taze the tires! Don’t shine your light in people’s faces, go in with night vision duhhh :ROFLMAO::rolleyes:

Fuck the drop rig, need a 12” brl m4 with full semi auto on da switch.
 
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CrazyHorse_mk14 said:
Yea def remeber to taze people in the foot and If they try to kill you with a car, taze the tires! Don’t shine your light in people’s faces, go in with night vision duhhh :ROFLMAO::rolleyes:

Fuck the drop rig, need a 12” brl m4 with full semi auto on da switch.
Click to expand...

Don't forget to just shoot them in the arm or the leg when they have a weapon.
 
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CrazyHorse_mk14 said:
And if “they” know the mayor or “their” rights.... Have to let em go.. Just have to!
Click to expand...
My father in law is a Mayor... no shit, so that means my relationship outranks that...so.... that mofo is bout to get tazed in the nut sack while I CS gas his Subaru with his screeching 105lbs girlfriend with the ironic large glasses....
 
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CrazyHorse_mk14 said:
View attachment 6898307

I would not be patient enough for LE work!
Click to expand...
I’m going to find out if I am.....

I always thought bad guys talk too much when they get caught..... time to light the cordite.... I figure, if I just pop a few trouble makers in jail my first day there, the rest will fall in line...... (heavy sarcasm for the tards out there)
 
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For some reason I see a GI romper with a tac vest :ROFLMAO:



If we’re gonna make 20 I may have to play the fence !

Fuck the police I know my rights!! Why ain’t you investigating real criminals? I pay your salary, back in the 1800’s police never stopped to check a brand on cattle! Towns didn’t institute “turn your guns in at the Marshals office” laws and since the coppers worked for the town, when the town decided to fore-go a fair trail, they stepped aside and let un constitutional justice be lynched out.

Soooo much worster today!!
 
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CMH said:
My first thought was -“I’d say so!” But then I realized he hadn’t stuck a badge in your neck -it was just a reflection. Thought shit got real up in heh fo’ a sec.
Click to expand...


It's my Jail tat. :LOL:
 
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