When it comes down to DPMS, Rock River, Armalite, and Colt, is there any one that's known to shoot better than the other or be built with better parts than the other? Or for that matter, is there any that I should flat out avoid? I'll be looking for a flattop target setup, so accuracy counts.
- Thread starter Marksman
- Start date
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
Ones to avoid are the ones that don't have a bolt assist. We are talking AR15's? You didn't mention calibur, what distance you will be shooting at what your goals are.
Do you plan to hunt with it at some point?.308 Wanna plink at 100 yards? 22LR Medium range up to 400 yards? .223 Most are mil-spec now. Go to the local shop and check fit and finish. Go to the local range and see what the people there are shooting. I have 2 BushMaster .223 both are accurate to M.E.R., 400 meters. I've used brass and steel rounds and have had one FTF and 2 FTE. I think the biggest difference you will encouter will be the prices
Ones to avoid are the ones that don't have a bolt assist. We are talking AR15's? You didn't mention calibur, what distance you will be shooting at what your goals are.
Do you plan to hunt with it at some point?.308 Wanna plink at 100 yards? 22LR Medium range up to 400 yards? .223 Most are mil-spec now. Go to the local shop and check fit and finish. Go to the local range and see what the people there are shooting. I have 2 BushMaster .223 both are accurate to M.E.R., 400 meters. I've used brass and steel rounds and have had one FTF and 2 FTE. I think the biggest difference you will encouter will be the prices
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
Rock River uses Wilson Arms(not Wilson Combat) barrels which are better than most production grade barrels, they have stainless models and a 2 stage trigger upgrade and as long as you get the 2 stage trigger you wont have to replace the cheap lower parts.
Rock River uses Wilson Arms(not Wilson Combat) barrels which are better than most production grade barrels, they have stainless models and a 2 stage trigger upgrade and as long as you get the 2 stage trigger you wont have to replace the cheap lower parts.
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
Rock River with a wylde chamber will probably be the most accurate "cheap" factory AR out there. I have a 20" bull upper RRA with the wylde chamber and it is wicked accurate.
Rock River with a wylde chamber will probably be the most accurate "cheap" factory AR out there. I have a 20" bull upper RRA with the wylde chamber and it is wicked accurate.
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marksman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...but I just can't get the Colt Accurized rifle out of my mind either. </div></div>
The C-word has a habit of doing that. It will come down to what kind of a gun buyer are you. The RRA Coyote rifle you said yourself will most likely do everything you ask of it. On the flip side would you always wonder what could have been? Personally, for your stated purposes I would get the RRA and be done with it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marksman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...but I just can't get the Colt Accurized rifle out of my mind either. </div></div>
The C-word has a habit of doing that. It will come down to what kind of a gun buyer are you. The RRA Coyote rifle you said yourself will most likely do everything you ask of it. On the flip side would you always wonder what could have been? Personally, for your stated purposes I would get the RRA and be done with it.
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
Go to Paul Howe's site (www.combatshootingandtactics.com) and read what he has to say about various AR brands.
Go to Paul Howe's site (www.combatshootingandtactics.com) and read what he has to say about various AR brands.
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
Some things to keep in mind.Staked carrier key,M4 feed ramps,chrome lined barrel,heat shields in handguards and price.
I was in a Colt armorers class few years ago and Ken Elmore took Bushmaster handguards and broke them in half with one hand.May have been a cheap parlor trick but the point has remained,Cheap stuff is cheap stuff.
This isn't meant to be an all inclusive list of things to look out for or bashing any one company but is a few basic key points.
Good luck, there are a lot of good companies producing good AR rifles.
Some things to keep in mind.Staked carrier key,M4 feed ramps,chrome lined barrel,heat shields in handguards and price.
I was in a Colt armorers class few years ago and Ken Elmore took Bushmaster handguards and broke them in half with one hand.May have been a cheap parlor trick but the point has remained,Cheap stuff is cheap stuff.
This isn't meant to be an all inclusive list of things to look out for or bashing any one company but is a few basic key points.
Good luck, there are a lot of good companies producing good AR rifles.
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
I have a Rock River CAR4 and DPMS bull 20. They both shoot very well. The DPMS with a full bull and 4" more barrel is a better longer distance shooter than the RR. The RR on the other hand is better made and comes with a good trigger out of the box. (I am going to get rid of the DPMS and probably buy a RR Coyote upper for the RR lower if I decide to mess with a target style AR again)....I just can't get away from wanting to shoot a bolt gun past 2-300 yds and I like the RR CAR4 as a multi pupose AR....nice for CQB and with the 3X maganifier/Eotec, acceptable for longer distance.
I have a Rock River CAR4 and DPMS bull 20. They both shoot very well. The DPMS with a full bull and 4" more barrel is a better longer distance shooter than the RR. The RR on the other hand is better made and comes with a good trigger out of the box. (I am going to get rid of the DPMS and probably buy a RR Coyote upper for the RR lower if I decide to mess with a target style AR again)....I just can't get away from wanting to shoot a bolt gun past 2-300 yds and I like the RR CAR4 as a multi pupose AR....nice for CQB and with the 3X maganifier/Eotec, acceptable for longer distance.
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LimaBravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Staked carrier key,M4 feed ramps,chrome lined barrel,heat shields in handguards and price.</div></div>
Of those staked carrier and price are the only ones I would worry about on a varmint gun.
M4 feed ramps aren't needed; they will improve reliability in an F/A gun.
Chrome lined barrel will be detrimental to accuracy compared to a stainless barrel; it will improve barrel life, reliability and ease of cleaning.
Double heat shields are probably a moot point because the gun will probably have a free floated handguard installed; they are a mark of quality and attention to detail.
Those things you mentioned are important if you're kicking down doors or posting on ARFcom etc., but not on a varmint gun.
That all said, if you think you're up to it put your own together. If you choose quality parts you can put together a decent gun and get what you want the first time and sometimes save a little money. At the very least you'll know the gun inside and out when you're done.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LimaBravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Staked carrier key,M4 feed ramps,chrome lined barrel,heat shields in handguards and price.</div></div>
Of those staked carrier and price are the only ones I would worry about on a varmint gun.
M4 feed ramps aren't needed; they will improve reliability in an F/A gun.
Chrome lined barrel will be detrimental to accuracy compared to a stainless barrel; it will improve barrel life, reliability and ease of cleaning.
Double heat shields are probably a moot point because the gun will probably have a free floated handguard installed; they are a mark of quality and attention to detail.
Those things you mentioned are important if you're kicking down doors or posting on ARFcom etc., but not on a varmint gun.
That all said, if you think you're up to it put your own together. If you choose quality parts you can put together a decent gun and get what you want the first time and sometimes save a little money. At the very least you'll know the gun inside and out when you're done.
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
Give the Colt Accurized (CR 6724) a look. Its what Im currently putting together - some nice optics - Bipod - and your rolling. I will own nothing but Colt in the AR/223/5.56 world. Yes a FEW other companies make decent stuff ... but they aren't a COLT. They may make a nice UPPER ... or a nice Barrel ... but in order to sell you an AR for under $1000 they are cutting corners somewhere ... take it as you will ... You get what you pay for.
Give the Colt Accurized (CR 6724) a look. Its what Im currently putting together - some nice optics - Bipod - and your rolling. I will own nothing but Colt in the AR/223/5.56 world. Yes a FEW other companies make decent stuff ... but they aren't a COLT. They may make a nice UPPER ... or a nice Barrel ... but in order to sell you an AR for under $1000 they are cutting corners somewhere ... take it as you will ... You get what you pay for.
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
Buy a LMT defender 2000 lower, can even get the SOPMOD stock and 2-stage trigger, and build the upper to match your needs.
Even for a Varmint rifle, I see little point in exceeding 18 to 20".
For instance, for anti-personel use, the longest barrel only gives you up to maybe 40 yards of frag range over the 16" match style barrel (180+ yards).
I'm basically an AR/AK guy putting together a couple of precision bolt guns, and I'm blown away by the fine folks here, well done you guys!
My fav AR is this Krieger Recon, a 16" mid gas 1/7 twist barrel cut for the OPS 12th suppressor. Accurate, reliable, medium weight contour. Zero POI shift, hot, cold, suppressed or not.
And I have an 18" Krieger that is maybe even more accurate and a rifle gas system. If you not going to a registered receiver and full auto, the AR might as well be accurate! No FA for me, I spent that money on the .308 bolt gun and a AN/PVS-22.
Buy a LMT defender 2000 lower, can even get the SOPMOD stock and 2-stage trigger, and build the upper to match your needs.
Even for a Varmint rifle, I see little point in exceeding 18 to 20".
For instance, for anti-personel use, the longest barrel only gives you up to maybe 40 yards of frag range over the 16" match style barrel (180+ yards).
I'm basically an AR/AK guy putting together a couple of precision bolt guns, and I'm blown away by the fine folks here, well done you guys!
My fav AR is this Krieger Recon, a 16" mid gas 1/7 twist barrel cut for the OPS 12th suppressor. Accurate, reliable, medium weight contour. Zero POI shift, hot, cold, suppressed or not.
And I have an 18" Krieger that is maybe even more accurate and a rifle gas system. If you not going to a registered receiver and full auto, the AR might as well be accurate! No FA for me, I spent that money on the .308 bolt gun and a AN/PVS-22.
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sapper524</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... but they aren't a COLT.</div></div>
I get that you like things than have the word "Colt" engraved into them but is there anything that makes them better than say a BCM rifle? Especially for the prices they sell for. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a Colt, to the contrary by all accounts they are a great rifle, but I don't think that LMT only puts together a "decent" rifle.
This AR discussion will most likely take the turn that most Scope A vs. Scope B discussions take, with similar results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sapper524</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... but they aren't a COLT.</div></div>
I get that you like things than have the word "Colt" engraved into them but is there anything that makes them better than say a BCM rifle? Especially for the prices they sell for. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a Colt, to the contrary by all accounts they are a great rifle, but I don't think that LMT only puts together a "decent" rifle.
This AR discussion will most likely take the turn that most Scope A vs. Scope B discussions take, with similar results.
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
If you want to go the custom route, take a look at the Les Baer upper and lower which come made as a set so the fit is phenomenal. Or, you could go with a high-end lower such as a Les Baer or LMT and slap on a pre-built White Oaks Armament upper which are some of the best complete uppers in the AR game right now. I have heard great things about the Gieselle triggers and slightly better things about the Jewell triggers. Buy once, cry once...
If you want to go the custom route, take a look at the Les Baer upper and lower which come made as a set so the fit is phenomenal. Or, you could go with a high-end lower such as a Les Baer or LMT and slap on a pre-built White Oaks Armament upper which are some of the best complete uppers in the AR game right now. I have heard great things about the Gieselle triggers and slightly better things about the Jewell triggers. Buy once, cry once...
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oodin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sapper524</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... but they aren't a COLT.</div></div>
I get that you like things than have the word "Colt" engraved into them but is there anything that makes them better than say a BCM rifle? Especially for the prices they sell for. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a Colt, to the contrary by all accounts they are a great rifle, but I don't think that LMT only puts together a "decent" rifle.
This AR discussion will most likely take the turn that most Scope A vs. Scope B discussions take, with similar results. </div></div>
It Totally depends on the user and the application. Im rough on my weapons and want them to hold up. As a Colt Armorer current / and prior military im sure you will consider my view skewed. If the OP wants to purchase Brand A over Brand B ... rock on ... his choice. I posted my personal opinion ... if you don't agree ... rock on ... your choice. I won't get drawn into a AR debate ... its pointless. I told a local fellow the same thing I posted when he asked me what to buy. He balked at the price ... went cheap. 6 months and 5k rounds later he understood. Spend your $$$ however you want ... I know how ill spend mine ...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oodin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sapper524</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... but they aren't a COLT.</div></div>
I get that you like things than have the word "Colt" engraved into them but is there anything that makes them better than say a BCM rifle? Especially for the prices they sell for. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a Colt, to the contrary by all accounts they are a great rifle, but I don't think that LMT only puts together a "decent" rifle.
This AR discussion will most likely take the turn that most Scope A vs. Scope B discussions take, with similar results. </div></div>
It Totally depends on the user and the application. Im rough on my weapons and want them to hold up. As a Colt Armorer current / and prior military im sure you will consider my view skewed. If the OP wants to purchase Brand A over Brand B ... rock on ... his choice. I posted my personal opinion ... if you don't agree ... rock on ... your choice. I won't get drawn into a AR debate ... its pointless. I told a local fellow the same thing I posted when he asked me what to buy. He balked at the price ... went cheap. 6 months and 5k rounds later he understood. Spend your $$$ however you want ... I know how ill spend mine ...
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
I have a Les Baer and love it.
It really comes down to what do you want out of a rifle and what is your budget?
Jim
I have a Les Baer and love it.
It really comes down to what do you want out of a rifle and what is your budget?
Jim
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
Of all mentioned here, for an accurate rifle that won't break the bank, the RR is your best bet. I also would reccomend Bushmasters Varmint and predator. There was a Varmint in the FS section a few days ago for 825ish. I'd hunt it down and spend my money!!!!!LOL
Of all mentioned here, for an accurate rifle that won't break the bank, the RR is your best bet. I also would reccomend Bushmasters Varmint and predator. There was a Varmint in the FS section a few days ago for 825ish. I'd hunt it down and spend my money!!!!!LOL
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DRAM40A1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of all mentioned here, for an accurate rifle that won't break the bank, the RR is your best bet. I also would reccomend Bushmasters Varmint and predator. There was a Varmint in the FS section a few days ago for 825ish. I'd hunt it down and spend my money!!!!!LOL </div></div>
Well it's been traded but I have a BM Varmint with JP trigger, brake, and adjustable gas block and love it!!! Check em out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DRAM40A1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of all mentioned here, for an accurate rifle that won't break the bank, the RR is your best bet. I also would reccomend Bushmasters Varmint and predator. There was a Varmint in the FS section a few days ago for 825ish. I'd hunt it down and spend my money!!!!!LOL </div></div>
Well it's been traded but I have a BM Varmint with JP trigger, brake, and adjustable gas block and love it!!! Check em out.
Re: I guess I should break down and get an AR .....
I own a Bushmaster Varminter and love it. It's not quite as heavy as the Rock River and it has always performed very well for me. I also like the fact that it doesn't have that shiny stainless barrel. If you do much varmint hunting with it that could be a problem. I've got friends that have Rock River AR's and they shoot great too. You can't go wrong either way.
I own a Bushmaster Varminter and love it. It's not quite as heavy as the Rock River and it has always performed very well for me. I also like the fact that it doesn't have that shiny stainless barrel. If you do much varmint hunting with it that could be a problem. I've got friends that have Rock River AR's and they shoot great too. You can't go wrong either way.
Similar threads
