I may have a shooter on my hands

scudzuki

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 1, 2012
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Philadelphia suburbs
Ran an OCW on my AAC-SD-dropped-on-an-HS-Precision-stock-donated-by-a-Hide-member build.
Shooting from a Harris knock-off bipod and a rear bag with a Sightron SIII 3.5-10x44 scope, I shot 3 each starting at 41.5 gr I4895 up to 45.4 gr behind an SMK 168 @ 2.88" COL with CCI 200 primers, in Federal brass that's been fired twice and neck sized with a Lee collet die after each firing.

I also whipped up a similar set of cartridges for my buddy and his 700 VTR in .308, only difference being those cases were PPU once fired then FL resized (I was gonna use them in my gas gun) and I'm hoping that didn't skew his results too bad.

Anyway, we setup yesterday at 100 yards (60 degrees, almost no wind) and ran through the test.
My first shot was 3/8" below dead center, his was outside the 1.5" diameter ring. Quite a bit outside.
I moved to the next charge (41.8 gr) and the same thing happened, only mine was near dead center, his, not so much. Hmmmmmmm.

It took until the 2nd pass at 43 gr before any of my shots even left the ring. I was pretty surprised; I would only consider myself an average shooter at best.
Every shot elicited a little chuckle from me... it was shaping up real good, but I was pretty sure it was going to fall apart. Can't get good data if I'm pulling shots left and right, ya know?

Wen it was done, I think I can identify 3 nodes (bottom, middle, and top) and the areas in between with clear trends, groups opening up and POI shift.
14 3 shot groups with a worst of exactly 1 MOA and a best of .18 MOA( right where I stopped, at 45.5 gr), nearly half below .5 MOA (6 of 14) and an average of .605 MOA across all 14 groups.

My buddy's 700 (27" triangular barrel with 5R 11.25" rifling in a B&C tactical stock) mostly threw shots all over the place, with definite POI shifts/groups opening up at different charges, it all came together once at 43 grains with a dime sized group then opened up immediately .3 gr later.

My goal for the AAC-SD is target and banging steel to 600, so I guess I will investigate that node at 43.9 in my rifle.

Joe
 

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Great groups! I am still amazed how well a pretty much un-touched 700 will shoot with simple hand loads.

These are the times I love shooting with a chrono, the accuracy is obviously there but its always nice to see what kind of FPS you are getting.

If you are just shooting to 600, try a ladder test again up to about 43.0 gr... I have found the sweet spot in there with IMR-4895, Nosler brass and 168 SMK's all from a handful of .308's. At that point depending on what manual you are using, it is above or equal to a max load. Please approach carefully!

As for the PPU stuff, don't invest too much time into it. Its good for a gas gun but its far from match, by the time you match prep it and weigh sort it you are going to get about 5 loads from it, at that point its perfect for a semi as the primer pockets will go at about the same time...
 
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Tight groups are nice, but....it is the location of the POI's defined by the groups that matters for good OCW results. Plot the POI's and look at how those "group".

OFG

I understand the point of the OCW.
To my eyes the tight groups jibed with what I identified as nodes.
Every node came back to the center of the ring.
Regardless, it's pretty hard to ignore the grouping.

Joe
 
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Great groups! I am still amazed how well a pretty much un-touched 700 will shoot with simple hand loads.

These are the times I love shooting with a chrono, the accuracy is obviously there but its always nice to see what kind of FPS you are getting.

If you are just shooting to 600, try a ladder test again up to about 43.0 gr... I have found the sweet spot in there with IMR-4895, Nosler brass and 168 SMK's all from a handful of .308's. At that point depending on what manual you are using, it is above or equal to a max load. Please approach carefully!

As for the PPU stuff, don't invest too much time into it. Its good for a gas gun but its far from match, by the time you match prep it and weigh sort it you are going to get about 5 loads from it, at that point its perfect for a semi as the primer pockets will go at about the same time...

43 gr I4895 with a 168 grain bullet is nowhere near the max in any load data I can find.
I got to 45.4 with no pressure signs.

Joe
 
43 gr I4895 with a 168 grain bullet is nowhere near the max in any load data I can find.
I got to 45.4 with no pressure signs.

Joe

What book are you using?

Lyman's 49th (while more conservative in the last few years) lists IMR-4895/168's- max @42.5 gr, I would be surprised if you weren't getting a little crunch approaching those 45gr loads. 155 J4's start to crunch at 46gr, just for reference...

But then again anything without a chronograph is just guess work and reading brass and primers can be tricky.

Good luck with your pursuit
 
What book are you using?

Lyman's 49th (while more conservative in the last few years) lists IMR-4895/168's- max @42.5 gr, I would be surprised if you weren't getting a little crunch approaching those 45gr loads. 155 J4's start to crunch at 46gr, just for reference...

But then again anything without a chronograph is just guess work and reading brass and primers can be tricky.

Good luck with your pursuit

I started examining every case that came out of mine or Kevin's rifle starting at 44.2.
There may have been a slight shiny spot at 45.4.
Lee 2nd edition and Hodgdon's website list 41 to 45.4 (compressed) as the range for I4895 with a 168.
Advice of legal counsel has neutered that listing in the Lyman manual, apparently.

I'm loading the cases long and nowhere near the lands so that gives me a little headroom.
I doubt I'll end up within 2 grains of that 45.4 when I'm done anyway.

I'll chrono the next test.

Joe