I have a chance to get a new Springfield M1A national match rifle tommorrow. I have had a standard and a loaded and they were fine, i need to hear from someone with real life experiece with a national match, i am looking for less than 1 inch at 100 with FGM ammo.
- Thread starter startrek
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Re: I need to know by tomorrow about a national match
Maybe...maybe not. Reports seem to vary quite a bit with the factory NM rifles. Seems the only for sure route to a sub MOA M1A is a custom with the sticker shock to go with it.
Dont take it as a dig on the platform, personaly I'm rather fond of them. Having said that there are muchbetter 308 gas gun options unless you actually intend to shoot NM and even then look at the results from Perry and see how many top shooters opt for the AR.
What were the best groups you shot with your previous two?
Maybe...maybe not. Reports seem to vary quite a bit with the factory NM rifles. Seems the only for sure route to a sub MOA M1A is a custom with the sticker shock to go with it.
Dont take it as a dig on the platform, personaly I'm rather fond of them. Having said that there are muchbetter 308 gas gun options unless you actually intend to shoot NM and even then look at the results from Perry and see how many top shooters opt for the AR.
What were the best groups you shot with your previous two?
Re: I need to know by tomorrow about a national match
standard usually shot around 1 1/4" , the loaded was about the same. The most accurate was a armscorp NM that would shoot under an inch with 168 smk.
standard usually shot around 1 1/4" , the loaded was about the same. The most accurate was a armscorp NM that would shoot under an inch with 168 smk.
Re: I need to know by tomorrow about a national match
Disclaimer:
I NEVER buy complete SAI rifles.
But I go back with the M1A to about 1983 or '84, when I borrowed a friend's fat-stock USGI parts build gun to shoot a then-lifetime high score over the course using WW-748 reloads we had thrown together the night before.
A lot of it will depend on the barrel. After everything is said and done on the M1A, including the slightly overrated gas cylinder/stock ferrule unitization and glass bedding (the two most important besides obviously mechanical things like no slop in the front sight fit to the barrel), the difference between a reliable 1.6-inch at 100 yards gun and a sub-inch gun is the barrel.
Some will do it, some won't. I had a cheap ArmsCorp USA medium heavy NM barrel (undoubtedly USGI surplus) installed in a regular walnut stock build and it did 1 MOA quite reliably with a variety of 168-gr handloads and with M852. The next barrel, same type from SAI, seems barely 1 inch with the right 175-gr loads and no better EVER than 1.3 inches with 155s of any type, usually 1.5-2.1 inches. Perhaps it's an unfair comparison because I just haven't done 168 load development with it, and never did 175s and 155s with the other one (its accuracy had dropped off by the time I tried them).
If you get it for a good price, all the other NM stuff is probably worth it even if you're stuck with a 1.5 MOA barrel. Hold hard and you can still clean the 300 and 600 targets with one. You'll just have to hold twice as hard as the guys and gals shooting ARs that are 3/4-inch guns.
Disclaimer:
I NEVER buy complete SAI rifles.
But I go back with the M1A to about 1983 or '84, when I borrowed a friend's fat-stock USGI parts build gun to shoot a then-lifetime high score over the course using WW-748 reloads we had thrown together the night before.
A lot of it will depend on the barrel. After everything is said and done on the M1A, including the slightly overrated gas cylinder/stock ferrule unitization and glass bedding (the two most important besides obviously mechanical things like no slop in the front sight fit to the barrel), the difference between a reliable 1.6-inch at 100 yards gun and a sub-inch gun is the barrel.
Some will do it, some won't. I had a cheap ArmsCorp USA medium heavy NM barrel (undoubtedly USGI surplus) installed in a regular walnut stock build and it did 1 MOA quite reliably with a variety of 168-gr handloads and with M852. The next barrel, same type from SAI, seems barely 1 inch with the right 175-gr loads and no better EVER than 1.3 inches with 155s of any type, usually 1.5-2.1 inches. Perhaps it's an unfair comparison because I just haven't done 168 load development with it, and never did 175s and 155s with the other one (its accuracy had dropped off by the time I tried them).
If you get it for a good price, all the other NM stuff is probably worth it even if you're stuck with a 1.5 MOA barrel. Hold hard and you can still clean the 300 and 600 targets with one. You'll just have to hold twice as hard as the guys and gals shooting ARs that are 3/4-inch guns.
Re: I need to know by tomorrow about a national match
Range report on new NM M1a at 100 yards 3 - 3 shot groups under 3/4", 2 - 3 shot groups at 200 yards inder 1.4 inches, all with FGMM ammo.
Range report on new NM M1a at 100 yards 3 - 3 shot groups under 3/4", 2 - 3 shot groups at 200 yards inder 1.4 inches, all with FGMM ammo.
Re: I need to know by tomorrow about a national match
I would like to know what groups the NM M1A shot at 500 yards and 800 ? I have a socom 2 and have played played with a new barrel. At the time this was the only M1 I could find and bought like new for 1800. I called around to buy a NM and dealers would say good luck on finding one now there are more around for sale.
I would like to know what groups the NM M1A shot at 500 yards and 800 ? I have a socom 2 and have played played with a new barrel. At the time this was the only M1 I could find and bought like new for 1800. I called around to buy a NM and dealers would say good luck on finding one now there are more around for sale.
Re: I need to know by tomorrow about a national match
4.5 x 14 x 50 Zeiss Conquest on Sadlak Airborne mount.
4.5 x 14 x 50 Zeiss Conquest on Sadlak Airborne mount.
Re: I need to know by tomorrow about a national match
I just picked up a Sadlak Airborne, looks like you recommend it. Better in person than in pictures.
I just picked up a Sadlak Airborne, looks like you recommend it. Better in person than in pictures.
Re: I need to know by tomorrow about a national match
I like Grump's opinion on the barrel being the integral part that will make a higher end M14 type rifle shoot.
The essential difference between a NM and a SM is the rear lug, barrel and heavier stock. Of the three items, it is the barrel that will make the most difference in accuracy.
A new NM M1A may shoot 1 MOA but more likely will shoot about 1.5 MOA which IMO is still very good accuracy. While FGMM is excellent ammo and the usual yardstick that other ammo is measured against, you may find other factory ammo to shoot, out of a given rifle, just a bit better. Rifles often demonstrate likes and dislikes when it comes to ammo.
Barrels that have demonstrated accuracy in my M14 type rifles have been Krieger and Rock Creek barrels. Jon Wolfe is also marketing a barrel based on his design and reputed to shoot very well (I haven't got one of those yet). I do have a couple of Douglas barrels that shoot good but just not as accurate as the Krieger and Rock Creek barrels.
Good luck whichever way you go.
Tom O.
I like Grump's opinion on the barrel being the integral part that will make a higher end M14 type rifle shoot.
The essential difference between a NM and a SM is the rear lug, barrel and heavier stock. Of the three items, it is the barrel that will make the most difference in accuracy.
A new NM M1A may shoot 1 MOA but more likely will shoot about 1.5 MOA which IMO is still very good accuracy. While FGMM is excellent ammo and the usual yardstick that other ammo is measured against, you may find other factory ammo to shoot, out of a given rifle, just a bit better. Rifles often demonstrate likes and dislikes when it comes to ammo.
Barrels that have demonstrated accuracy in my M14 type rifles have been Krieger and Rock Creek barrels. Jon Wolfe is also marketing a barrel based on his design and reputed to shoot very well (I haven't got one of those yet). I do have a couple of Douglas barrels that shoot good but just not as accurate as the Krieger and Rock Creek barrels.
Good luck whichever way you go.
Tom O.
Re: I need to know by tomorrow about a national match
mine is a new NM and I don't remember seeing a rear lug, sure you don't mean the supermatch has a rear lug.
mine is a new NM and I don't remember seeing a rear lug, sure you don't mean the supermatch has a rear lug.
Re: I need to know by tomorrow about a national match
Installed the Sadlak Airborne last night and it's a Perfect fit. Will give it a run through this weekend to determine how it holds up.
Installed the Sadlak Airborne last night and it's a Perfect fit. Will give it a run through this weekend to determine how it holds up.
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