iam not getting it and need some one to explain

[black_ump]

ok first things first here is what i shoot, it has a 26" free floated barrel with i belive 1-12 twist, stiffened receiver, buttstock with adjustable comb and length of pull.

falcon 10x scope in side of arms 35 mount and rings

yes hk 91 with long barrel...

myhead spacing is dead on, i think their is eaither somthing wrong with my shooting or my reloading or my concept of reloading so in short here are some things iam doing and i wanna know if you see a fault in them

my idea is to take a 155 or 175 smk or even 190 smk or 110 jhp sierra bullet to take wood chucks at 100-xxx yards... i wanna zero at 200, i wanna figure out how many mill to drop if their is any thing closer say 100 yards, i wanna load subsonics and find the come ups at 25 and 50 yds

when i prep my MATCH BRASS i use winchester once fired

clean in side and out side of flash hole
clean primer pocket
champer inside and out side of neck

i cannot trim brass i dont have a trimmer thats my match brass prepping

i weigh powder out on a mcm electornic scale useing blc-2 powder ** yes i will get varget when i have money **

out side of prepping brass and the powdering then i seat the bullets, i use lee dies and a lee c press i cannot get an oal right on the money, if i get them all at 2.803 or 2.807 then thats fine for me any way

when i hit the range i sand bag on the bench a sand bag up front and usualy two in the back i use my hand to squeez the sand bag to get my point of impact up or down just a bit tip of the finger on the trigger slowly sqeeze one off, i do notice a little pull to the left but generally it is straight back

well thats what i do, what do you see wrong ?

 

[desertHK]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to explain

Is there something wrong with your pattern of groupings? From what you described, it sounds fine to me. How heavy is the trigger pull? My last HK91 had a very heavy pull. It's hard to tell without pictures of your groupings.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to explain

In time you will need a trimmer - that is a necessity for reloading. It would also be worth wild to get a Hornady Overal Length Gauge and Comparator becasue you should measure at the Ogive and not the tip of the bullet. As yo have found out there are variables in the length of the tip.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=570611

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=584824

 

[Unknown]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to explain

I really recommend some type of trimmer. Possum hollow makes a cheap one that you can get an adapter for to chuck it into a drill..really fast.

If you don't trim and the cases are a tiny bit long, then the case mouth gets crimped onto the bullet when it is jammed into the throat. Pressures go way up, and accuracy goes all to hell. With my M1A, it also had lots of jams and stuck cases, but with the HK's system of using gas to break the grip cases have on the chamber walls, that wouldn't seem to be as noticeable...but the lack of accuracy would sure show.

 

[black_ump]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to explain

my gun was about 1.5 moa at 100

when i went to 200 it was about 4" groupings... i shot last night and i did get a moa group

i aim at the target and ill shoot about 3" low and 1-2 inches right with reloads

when i shoot with surplus junk i was about right on so i dont know if its the reloads if its me

btw my trigger is a psg1 trigger 3 lb pull

 

[Rookie]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to explain

Thats about all the accuracy you can expect from that setup. 2- 4 moa is the norm.

 

[81Z4ME]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to explain

Rifles usually tend to shoot different loads (different bullets, powder, etc) to different points of impact. Nothing wrong with your rifle because surplus (usually around 150 grain bullet) and your match bullet reloads hit a different place on the target.

Your going to a lot of trouble on your brass prep. and powder measurement for relatively short range shooting. My old M1 Garand shoots 8 shot groups that are about 4" wide by 6" high at 300 yds. (it's a pretty much stock metal rifle in a cheap Ramline synthetic stock with an Ameaga Ranges scope mount and $56 pistol scope on it. That's reloads in commercial 30.06 brass with pulled 147 grain FMJBTs with CCI primers and a IMR 4895 dropped out of an RCBS Uniflow powder measure.

Every rifle is different. When you change powders you may find your groups get smaller, or bigger.

Groundhogs with a .308? What a mess....

You will need the case trimmer for sure.

 

[black_ump]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to explain

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rookie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats about all the accuracy you can expect from that setup. 2- 4 moa is the norm. </div></div>


that right their is a lie..... because i have with 155 smk's shot moa at 100 yards all day long


and ya ground hogs with a 308....

 

[black_ump]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to explain

think i need a scope with some zoom for 200 yards

 

[esromvre]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to explain

Just remember each rifle is like a person DIFFRENT and some the same. try differnt loads and trim your brass.

I'm not a big fan of the blc 2 dont be afraid to try other powders other than Varget... 4064 works good RL15 lots of differnt powders you can try.

Whats the round count on this system?

Hows your crown?

lots of reasons a rifle wont shoot.

 

[black_ump]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to explain

round count is about 350 on the barrel.

my muzzle is threaded with muzzle brake i dont think a crown means much or does it ?

iam going to try

diffrent powder
diffrent scope
trimme brass with lee zip trim

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to expla

The crown matters still I hear. Last part of barrel to touch the bullet.

 

[BillCominos]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to expla

The crown is VERY important!! If it is imperfect gasses escape around the bullet at differing pressures and can cause the bullet to yaw when leaving the barrel.... Almost the same with trimming your brass, whereas if the brass is too long it may be being crimped when chambered resulting in varying chamber pressures and velocities. The rifle you are shooting is a battle rifle, designed to be able to hit man sized targets efficiently in harsh conditions, not a bench rest rifle capable of printing tiny groups... although it sounds like you have a pretty good shooter! But, shooting occasional 1 MOA groups does not make a 1 MOA rifle.... Heck, you may have one though! Semi-auto's continue to improve in accuracy due to real world demands and manufacturers listening.... My current AR is way more accurate than the one I was issued many years ago, and well capable of sub .75 MOA inside of 300 yards, but shooting only 62 grainer's from it limits it's capabilities at further distances.... A new barrel with a 1/7 twist should help me shoot some of the heavier .223 offerings... am in no hurry though & will shoot this one (1/9) until it dies!

Good luck! Squeezing the last bit of accuracy out of your rig is always the hardest and most expensive!

 

[zachiann]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to expla

Where can I get the scope mounting tabs to weld to my receiver?

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to expla

I didn't see where you mentioned a chronograph.

Shooting for group at 100 means you can shoot good groups at 100. Nothing else. Unless you have chrony numbers.

Chrony numbers can give you a predictable load at extended range. Without it, you will need to do load development at 200yrds or where ever you want to group at.

My benchrest buddies can get away without one because they shoot for groups at 100 and 200 with truck axle barrels with little harmonics. You most likely have a NATO chamber combined with violent weapon cycling. A gnat's ass at 100 may not mean anything beyond 100.....

 

[black_ump]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to expla

well slowly ill get her all worked out..... 100 yards at a time i guess

 

[balkandom]

Re: iam not getting it and need some one to expla

Wild Bill touched on this briefly, but he makes a good point.It's a little close range to start noticing THAT much, but there is another factor-just about all of your 7.62-chambered battle or battle-type rifles do have a longer twist, made to work with your 147-150gr ball ammo, and heavier bullets (15%+ heavier in the case of the 175 SMK) don't get enough table English put on them to stabilize to where they should, and your accuracy will suffer to some extent, worsening the further out you try to shoot.
The second issue is the nature of the beast you're shooting. I put the 91 in the same category as the FAL...unless you have a purpose-built match barrel, you fall prey to the downside of these rifles-they're made to shoot just about any NATO round ever produced...the do it reliably, just not that accurately in comparison to something like an M21, SR9T, or a purpose-built bolt gun.
I have an L1A1 that's a solid 2moa gun at 100 yards, regardless of what crap backwater country the ammo came from, and I consider myself lucky. If you're getting MOA at 100 with your 155's all day long, I would work on stretching those out further and not worry a lot about finding something better.

My 2 cents.