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ideal rifle weight

Re: ideal rifle weight

12 - 15 pounds be about right, but the felt weight has all to do with the balance of the rifle. If it's near the rear or on the muzzle it'll feel heavy, but if it's right around the ejection area to the recoil lug, then it should feel a bit lighter.

JMHO,
P.B.Walsh
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

no heavier than 13-14 pounds in my opion.anything heavier than that becomes a defensive rifle or fixed position rifle ie.50 cals and the big chey-tecs,even some of the .338 LM's.most mobile snipers would'nt want the extra weight.they rely on skill not bench rest style rifles.
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

Stay with a Remington varmint wt. barrel or the sendero contour and a good stock and you will have a perfect all around rifle that isn't a beast to lug around. Trust me!! I have been down the 14 to 15lb road and they are no fun to lug up an down hills.
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

I had a Rem700, milspec 5r, that with optics weighed 10lbs after I cut the barrel to 21". It balanced well, shot well (175 FGM averaged .500, 5 shot groups) , and in my opinion was the perfect weight. Unfortunately, dumb ass that I am, I sold it last Fall.
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

Dredging up a old thread... is this the fully loaded weight we are discussing?
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dredging up a old thread... is this the fully loaded weight we are discussing?

</div></div>

I can't speak for them but I would say that's with ammo in the magazine, scope, sling, external camo (if necessary) and bipod all attached and ready to run.

For sure keep it as light as you can. If you can get a good rifle down to 10 lbs. that's the one to carry. Most of the ones I have set up for tactical run around 11-12 lbs. One runs 17.
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

This is about as subjective as questions come.

20.3 lbs is what mine comes in at.
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

Mine is right at 17 with 11 rounds of .308. it's starting to remind me of the new M3, handles well but kind of piggish.

You know now that I think about it it also reminds me of some split tails I used to...
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: canuck4570</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what in your opinion is an ideal tactical rifle weight
whit scope, bipod?
I asked because I find my TRG22 with S@B 5-25x56 rather heavy its near 14 pounds...</div></div>

As light as possible. When you are humping a gun plus gear every ounce counts.
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As light as possible. When you are humping a gun plus gear every ounce counts. </div></div>

It really depends on just how far you can realistically expect to have to hump it, given your circumstances, traded off against the performance at range you expect to have to shoot it, doesn't it?
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

I don't know. I think most of us still think of Tactical Rifles as match guns. I think we believe in terms of crawling and humping and running around, shooting many rounds, and expecting our rifles to be able to stand up to abuse.

After watching Frank's torture test video, I'm greatly impressed, but honestly, if I treated my hunting rifles even close to half as bad as that way, I'd expect them to bite me on the ass.

Game is wary and wily, too. Game is no easier to dispatch than a tactically designated target.

Get right down to it, sniping is hunting. A heavy barrel is accurate, sure. So is any other barrel with a well tuned load. It just doesn't hold zero so well (usually) when it gets heated up. But stop and ask, why is a sniper getting involved in a slugfest? Pretty much if that's the case, the mission is blown anyway.

Just as when we hear a hunter 'over there' blam blammin', and shake our heads in disgust, aren't we going to be doing the same head action when a sniper starts doing the same?

I just gotta ask, how much of what folks lug around is actually based on need, and how much is based on popular wisdom? At just what point does the basic hunting rifle fail to meet the basic need? Mil-Dots? It that the real difference?

Greg
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

Im a man who believes there is no need for an array of different calibres in my gun safe. Im also understanding that with most things in life there are trade-offs.

Regarding my rifle, the weight i believe is a trade off.

Do I want beefy optics? Sure
Do I need it? No
Do I need an AI stock? No
But i sure as hell want one!
Will I use my gun on a bench? Yes
Will I hunt with my gun? Yes
Is it heavy? Hell yeh

Back in the stone age you reckon those cave men were complaining about rocks being too heavy or their clubs being too blunt?

If weight is an issue theres one thing that comes to mind straight away. Heavy Duty Flush cups installed on the sides of your stock along with a lovely TAB gear biathlon sling.

Try it out and you will wonder why on earth you even carry around lighter rifles over one shoulder on those long hauls.

The other option is to hit the gym and harden up
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

A) If a .30-'06 won't git 'er done, maybe I'm barking up too tall a tree.

B) If one can bag deer with a .30-'06, why is anything else, of roughly the same size and weight, with vision to match, and a sense of smell that's way inferior, going to be so impossible? Deer are bred and raised to surmount predation. Are Tactical targets?

Hunting is good sniping, sniping is good hunting. A good, reliable hunting rifle doesn't need to weigh more'n 8lb. Mine probably weighs less, all up. What were the greats carrying around? Zaitsev, Hayha, Hathcock? Hell, Hatchcock even used to strip down his C-Rats to save weight. What would they say about what people eschew these days?

It's the Indian, folks...

This discipline has just gone in the wrong direction, IMHO.

Greg
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A) If a .30-'06 won't git 'er done, maybe I'm barking up too tall a tree.

B) If one can bag deer with a .30-'06, why is anything else, of roughly the same size and weight, with vision to match, and a sense of smell that's way inferior, going to be so impossible? Deer are bred and raised to surmount predation. Are Tactical targets?

Hunting is good sniping, sniping is good hunting. A good, reliable hunting rifle doesn't need to weigh more'n 8lb. Mine probably weighs less, all up. What were the greats carrying around? Zaitsev, Hayha, Hathcock? Hell, Hatchcock even used to strip down his C-Rats to save weight. What would they say about what people eschew these days?

It's the Indian, folks...

This discipline has just gone in the wrong direction, IMHO.

Greg</div></div>

Deer don't shoot back...the reason distance is helpful. A heavy barrel helps hold consistency at distance. Since heavy barrels weigh more, it's nice to have a stock that helps balance that out. As well as help you cope with higher recoil if you choose a cartridge/caliber that gives better distance.

I've heard many times it's the indian, not the arrow. I can assure you that crooked arrows aren't much use at distances needed to hunt game that hunts you back.
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

No argument, hadn't planned on having the quarry shooting back, but that's a possibility. At which point the lighter rifle might perhaps aid one's bugging out. As for game that shoots back, BTDT; but never as a sniper, so I could be wrong on a number of levels.

I think it could be a mistake to underestimate the accuracy of a well tuned load in a hunting rifle. Question, do we tune the load to a cold, fouled bore; or perhaps some other condition?

It's interesting you bring up crooked arrows. But again, all possibilities are worth consideration.

I'm not looking for a pissin' match here; I just want to re-examine some traditional assumptions. Maybe we could consider the Buffalo Hunters' approach; very different from what we consider to be conventional wisdom, but still damned effective, and damned efficient.

I've given us all two alternative approaches that I believe could be worth consideration, and that meets my goal. I have nothing to prove.

Greg
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

good points from both sides, i would however say for a match rifle, my ideal rifle fully loaded, sling, bipod, optics, and ammo should weight around 15lbs and balanced very well. 12-13 would be better but the barrel needs to be big enough to be consistent when it gets hot.

If i were looking to build a actual tactical rifle and not just match rifle i would be try to keep it in the 10-12lb rifle.

hunting rifle shouldn't weigh more than 10lbs unless it is for long range hunting or not much carrying.

just my .02cents
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No argument, hadn't planned on having the quarry shooting back, but that's a possibility. At which point the lighter rifle might perhaps aid one's bugging out. As for game that shoots back, BTDT; but never as a sniper, so I could be wrong on a number of levels.

I think it could be a mistake to underestimate the accuracy of a well tuned load in a hunting rifle. Question, do we tune the load to a cold, fouled bore; or perhaps some other condition?

It's interesting you bring up crooked arrows. But again, all possibilities are worth consideration.

I'm not looking for a pissin' match here; I just want to re-examine some traditional assumptions. Maybe we could consider the Buffalo Hunters' approach; very different from what we consider to be conventional wisdom, but still damned effective, and damned efficient.

I've given us all two alternative approaches that I believe could be worth consideration, and that meets my goal. I have nothing to prove.

Greg</div></div>

Greg,

I think you hit a number of points pretty well actually. As far as crooked arrows I really should have phrased that as "the straightest" arrows are the ones you want to pick to fly the farthest. Some arrows you can wet, heat and bend and do that all over again yet they never get quite as good as some others. Same can be said for rifles. As per my earlier post, if you have a 10# rifle that shoots as good as a 17#'er there is no need to carry a 17#'er. And as far as your "Indian" {ability to sneak and fight} goes, he better be up to snuff, even for pretty long distance. I BTDT too, but on a very limited basis. And I was never a sniper either. I did have the fortune (what I call it now...not then), when I was in S-3, to layout a sniper training mission and coordinate all the logistics for it and be able to grade it based on my own field skills. Sad to say our boys didn't do so good. We killed every hostage @ 250m during a night shoot. But it was a starting place, that became a mainstay within the Ranger BN's. -*No, I don't take any credit for that....just the fact I was waterboy for the whole thing and saw, up close, not only the mission but what all went on behind it.*-
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

I need to pay more attention to my meds, actually. Sometimes I get the bit in my teeth and there's no tellin' where I'll finally come back down to earth. Could be that some of my rant is based on a case of the shivers after seeing LL's Duracote video. Very convincing, BTW; incredibly so.

Old School Marine, doing things like that to an issue weapon just raises hackles. My issue, nobody else's. I come from the school about politicians and rust, all other hazards being the user's fault for not taking adequate care, etc..

Like velocity, overengineering seems to me to be a shortcut or an excuse not to treat the matter at hand with adequate care.

If my weapon needs that kind of rudgidness, I'm doing it wrong. If I'm firing enough rounds that barrel heat is severely impeding accuracy, I'm doing it wrong. If rifle performance is surprising me under actual operating conditions, I'm doing it wrong. I could go on, but I think the point's already made.

Heavy barrels are heat sinks. They heat up slow (on the outside), and cool off slow. There is nothing in their composition that protects a bore or a throat from heat damage any better than a lightweight barrel does. Maybe even, they preserve internal heat longer, exposing the inner tract to vulnerability longer. The outer region does resist flex and warpage, but there are better ways to do that which don't impose a cooling off penalty that can take the rifle out of service for way, way too long.

Pricey, but much better; this is a solution which saves the weight and balance, and keeps the rifle in the fight, maybe even indefinitely. I'd like to say it was my idea, but L-W beat me to it by at least six decades.

Those of you who follow my posts have seen this link many times before. It continues to be a great idea that simply reinforces my theories. I remain amazed that I have not seen anyone here praising its capabilities. Like the Accue-Stock, it's a revolution, not an evolution.

Greg
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

As light as possible while being able to make multiple shots precisely with little to no point of impact change.

A precision rifle should also fit the shooter properly. And that is where some of the weight starts to add up. Different stocks can have have a weight difference of 3 or more lbs. That's the difference between a 10 and 13 pound rifle. How much ergonomics do you want? A fully adjustable A5 is a tank compared to an A3 Edge non adj. But you get perfect length of pull, cheek weld, cant options for the butt pad, etc.

Barrel weight as mentioned is the other big factor. I feel that a fluted varmint contour is tough to beat. My 22" barrel fluted and chambered weighed 3 lbs. Some guys chose the MTU contour or straight tapers, I personnally think that is too heavy for too little to no gain.

I hunt and compete with the same gun. It weighs 12 pounds slung and with bipod. I have confidence on the long shots, its very precise, has decent ergonomics, and I have packed it 16 miles over the cascades in one day comfortably.

Just my 10 cents
smile.gif
 
Re: ideal rifle weight

Weight totally depends on your purpose and "tactical" does not really define that. The longer you have to walk with the rifle and the more difficult the terrain, the lighter you will want it. A good hunting rifle usually comes in under 9lbs including scope, sling, ammo. If you are shooting off a bipod and don't have to carry it far, a heavy rifle offers the advantage of absorbing recoil and making shooting more pleasant and accurate. That said, even my heaviest match rifle does not weight more that 14 lbs.

there is no such thing as the "perfect weight." Optimize the rifle for what you use it for.