Night Vision Illuminator or dbal/mawl

[westcoasteast]

Ordered a surefire and got the head that has white light plus ir illumination. When running nvg though, is this pointless? The more I think about it I need a ir laser to aim, and might as well get a dbal or mawl. Are there sights that actually allow you to se through when running nvg?

 

[westcoasteast]

Every piece of NV kit has its own utility.

The question is if they line up with your use case.

guess I’ll just have to trial and error diff setups, makes sense

 

[Downtown]

Google up "Photonic barrier" for some excellent information on why a powerful IR illuminator can be absolutely necessary in some environments.

 

[WhereNow&How]

guess I’ll just have to trial and error diff setups, makes sense

State your use, needs & wants and some good advice for your options will likely be set forth for your consideration and knowledge by very seasoned people here.

Then we can also enjoy some sporting banter and jousting amongst competing thoughts.

I have found it far more productive to learn on someone else's nickel than my own.

Albeit, sometimes I have had to pay the price myself. A lesson bought is usually not forgotten.

 

[PlinkIt]

guess I’ll just have to trial and error diff setups, makes sense

If you are willing to explain your use case and set up there are some guys here who can help direct you down the right path from the beginning.

There are guys here that have forgotten more than some of us know, and they are willing to help those of us that don't really know

 

[PlinkIt]

@WhereNow&How best me to it, I think we thought the same thing when reading his post

Great minds think alike?
Or
Or all idiots think the same?

(Warning up for the jousting lol)

 

[WhereNow&How]

@WhereNow&How best me to it, I think we thought the same thing when reading his post

Great minds think alike?
Or
Or all idiots think the same?

(Warning up for the jousting lol)

Here is my short answer. Full Powered Dbal A3. That will cover just about anything. Problem is: pretty much unobtainium for civi's.

 

[WhereNow&How]

@Brown2008 below is an pic of what Downtown was describing as a powerful IR Illuminator.

That beam is at a known distance of 1,000 yards. 90mW of Laser Based Diode at 810 nm frying up some tree limbs. It will even stroke on out much further than that. That beam will punch straight threw pretty much any night time "Photonic Barrier" a person would encounter out at night which "Photonic Barriers" would mainly be encountered in a City-Urban type environment.

"Google up "Photonic barrier" for some excellent information on why a powerful IR illuminator can be absolutely necessary in some environments. "

 

[westcoasteast]

Lots of good stuff. I’ll try to unpack what I (think) I know for now. Looking for a few different setups. First is si gun for cqb. Apc9 and 45. Also have a scar 17 I want to use for short to medium range, night hunting in woods. Would like to do long range eventually too but plan to get a pvs 27 or 30 for that obviously, not running around with rnvg.

I have a dbal a3 (don’t think it’s a “full power” unit?) Currently...what other info would be helpful/useful? Thank you all for the info!

 

[BamaSE]

Be advised everytime you post something here it inevitably costs you money?For example a few weeks ago I had no idea a Steiner Dbal D2 existed, much less I needed one and it was the missing link to my shooting bliss......a few threads and a couple posts and $1200+ later.....well all I can say is mounting a laser and putting the beam on something and shooting it is fun, and aiming with an IR laser at something while wearing a PVS14 is just awesome. And being able to make the IR illuminator on the Dbal tight focused or broad is neat for someone like me who is new to all this stuff. Unfortunately I have not yet been able to field test mine to give a report on real world functionality for me. Other than the sheer fun of shooting with the laser at the range I bought it to go on my 5.56 for clearing the hogs in our traps at night with the PVS14 as trying to aim behind a NV red dot or a thermal at close range is a PIA when they are running around the pen, but thus far they are not showing up or we have done too good a job trapping on the couple farms they are set upon. I do run one of the little Surefire V1 Vampire lights on my helmet for navigating across the fields and in the woods and the IR works real well for that. Drive with IR cube lights on the buggy.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Lots of good stuff. I’ll try to unpack what I (think) I know for now. Looking for a few different setups. First is si gun for cqb. Apc9 and 45. Also have a scar 17 I want to use for short to medium range, night hunting in woods. Would like to do long range eventually too but plan to get a pvs 27 or 30 for that obviously, not running around with rnvg.

I have a dbal a3 (don’t think it’s a “full power” unit?) Currently...what other info would be helpful/useful? Thank you all for the info!

If you have a civi Dbal A3 you are 2/3 the way to Nirvana. Slap a Luna ELIR-3 beside it and slave it to the Luna. When/If you get a PVS 27 or 30, the Luna ELIR-3 would arguably be the best laser based Illuminator to pair with it. So you killing 2 birds with one stone so to speak.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Good info.

The D2 is also a good choice in civvy land as it does most of what a responsible shooter can manage with a 27, and it is all eye safe.

I have the ELiR-3 as well as a few even more powerful units, and the eye safety is always a concern.

This is even more true if you ever think you will encounter a Park Ranger or Wildlife officer.

Yes I agree. The D2 is an great performer and dollar for dollar probably the best option for a civi wanting a good performing MFLAM.

 

[STI 45]

Solaris SRX IR Laser Illuminator with variable switch.

Currently is my go to Illuminator and I've owned most of them (except the MAWL). Warning it is not eye safe!
I run it on 20-30% for my D-790 and 10-20% for pvs24LR
Beam is wide enough to fill the scope and maintain its strength on the lower settings.
Cleaner light than luna's and most led's.
Battery life is 4-28 hours.
Mount it in a Burrius Signature ring and you can adjust/center it with the reticle. 1" 0r 30mm will both work on different locations.

Down side is it is heavy at 16 oz. and not eye safe. Street price about $200.

 

[Jgunner]

I have been needing a good ir illuminator, not sure if i want to go large like a coyote cannon or something more military style. Prob need a couple different setups to be happy, but saving up for thermal takes all available funds!

 

[Strykervet]

Surefire light is good for lighting up the immediate AO. Your yard. 50-100m maybe. It's a flashlight and it works in IR a lot like it does in white but I'd say it's a bit more efficient.

For most aiming use the .7mW will work (but IMO that needs to be stepped up to 5mW to be more effective). Anyway, it works to 300m, seen it plenty of times. The illuminator is different. I guess guys are having luck with Luna or whatever, but I'm sure that thing has got to put out a big red glare, I could be wrong. I use an old PEQ2 and it gets the job done quite well. And the illuminator on high works great for the PVS30.

As far as mounting it so you can use it with a sight, I'd shy from that were I you. You CAN do it, they make mounts that allow you to put it behind an EoTech or Aimpoint or whatever on an M4 (there are recoil limitations depending on the 14 you have) and while it works, it limits you to only being able to look behind the sight. Hence the laser and head mounted option. It's the only situation where you'll find seasoned shooters tell you it's okay to use a laser on your rifle.

Hard to tell you what to do. PEQ2 has done me fine but finding a legitimate one requires some know how and persistence. Calling in the SN to CID, NCIS, FBI, local sherrif and police, the mfg., etc. If none of them are looking for it, then it's one of the gray area items. While it ain't stolen, it's been written off (they don't do this anymore but used to) and you can legally own it, you still can't send it back for repair. However, good ones in like new condition usually don't have any problems. Same with PEQ 15's. If they can't give you a SN, don't bother.

Works fine illuminating targets out past 1000m for this PVS30 and there's no way that thing would work that far without it. Being a PEQ2 it's considered big and bulky but as you can see it doesn't take up that much room.

 

[TheGerman]

It depends.

If you got that light for double duty as an illuminator, you're not going to be happy.

The Surefire IR lights have their purpose in that they give you a dual illumination with a lock out option. This comes in handy if you are not using/dont have NV as the white light will be there (using white light at night is a whole other thread) and in some cases using the Surefire instead of the bigger/blooming illuminator while passively looking for something in closer quarters is preferred.

This technique, when coupled with being able to passivly aim down the RDS at what you're looking at allows you to react quicker to a threat should all of a sudden the lights come on, and now instead of activating the aiming laser to figure out what you're going to hit, you simply shoot like you would during the day; its why for operations where I knew we'd be inside most of the time I'd wear a PVS14 over my weak eye and nothing over the other as I could passivly aim down the EoTech/Aimpoint while focusing on what I can see in the PVS14 and any laser/illum I was using. Lights came on and I have you in my RDS anyways. With some practice, you could go back and forth between these two with the only real factor being, do you hit the illum/laser switch and then pull the trigger, or just pull the trigger.

If you want to illuminate down range outside and PID as well as be able to aim with the laser to hit something, you need an actual illuminator (civi versions are total dogshit outside of the MAWL which skirts the FDA laser restrictions) so its either a MAWL or find a PEQ15, PEQ15A, PEQ2A in the secondary market.

 

[westcoasteast]

this is all great, thanks! Keep it coming. Very helpful