Impact Precision vs Defiance

[elmuzzlebreak]

Okay so I am starting to plan my next build and am pretty set on one of these two actions. I know Impact has the easy switch barrel set up and pre fit availability going for it. But can you get the same out of a defiance? I haven't been able to find a good side to side comparison between the two and what the pros/cons of each are.

All input is appreciated.

 

[winniethepooh]

I’m pretty sure with a deviance you can switch barrels as long as you or your Smith has the specs for head spacing. Impacts are built precisely so you can buy any barrels for any impact and torque them up

 

[anginaprinzmetal]

With Defiance you can go two routes for prefits. You can go w a RemAge set up from Criterion (which I have a couple, and shoots .25-.3 MOA all day long) or shouldered barrel in which case a smith needs to get a hold of your action to measure the tennon, once this is done you just order your shouldered prefit barrels and can install then yourself

 

[Shanerbanner10]

I have NOT found Defiance tolerance to be good enough for prefits. Most smiths do not offer prefits for Defiance actions. Defiance when clean is super smooth, the issue with them is tolerance are pretty tight and you can get some nastiness in dirty conditions. This is where the Impact shines. Impacts will run pretty much not matter what. Impact and Defiance are a different kind of smooth. Hard to describe without feeling each side by side, but if you did, then threw a hand full of dirt, dust, mud or whatever in each action the Impact would keep going without much issues. Another plus for Impacts is that prefits are now offered at most notable smith's shops. I chamber up more Impact prefits than probably any other action out there. I've seen about 25 thou difference in critical dimensions for Defiance's that would be needed for prefits. Once a smith has done one barrel for you on your action they should not need it again if they record the dimensions needed for the barrel.

Do not take this as me saying a Defiance action will not work in nasty conditions. They certainly will, but it will not be as smooth as an Impact in most cases.

If you have club match close to you, I'd say show up and you're more than likely to find a Defiance and an Impact at just about any club , PRS or NRL match out there. You'll get great support from both companies. Both companies stand behind their product. Both companies also tend to support the matches and leagues around the US.

 

[kthomas]

You can swap barrels just as easily on a Defiance as you can an Impact. The advantage of an Impact is that the tolerances are held so tight, that a gunsmith doesn't need to see the action to spin you up a shouldered barrel. With a Defiance, they need to see it once, and as long as they save your action spec's, they can spin you up further shouldered barrels without seeing your action.

Another option I would strongly consider is the Lone Peak Fuzion. It's not as hyped up as the Impact, but it's every bit as good (if not better). The newest generation of the Fuzions are held to such tight tolerances, that a gunsmith never has to see the action (like the Impact). It runs great dirty or dry, and once broken in, that action feels butter smooth. In fact, pretty much everyone that I've talked to that has had both an Impact and a Lone Peak Fuzion has preferred the Lone Peak, including two top 10 PRS gunsmiths. No doubt the Impact is a great action, but it's certainly been hyped up hard on the internet - to the point where people are buying them and are left wondering what all the hype is about. I've heard it a few times.

All great options, but if I was in the market for another push feed action, it would be the LP Fuzion. Just got one for my wife's rifle build, and it's pretty slick. But honestly, all the top tier actions are great. Once you get into this tier, it's just nitpicking on your prefences and critiques between the actions.

 

[NB4Z]

Accuracy wise you won't see anything. That is all in the barrel blank and quality of the work. I have a rebel and deviant that are private labeled. I guess I'm a defiance guy. I like the features, especially the primary extraction. You really can't go wrong with any of the well know custom actions it's just a matter of what you want.

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

Thanks for all the input everyone. Great to read all this. So far I am leaning more towards impacts because this isn't the first time I've hear what kthomas has said.

You can swap barrels just as easily on a Defiance as you can an Impact. The advantage of an Impact is that the tolerances are held so tight, that a gunsmith doesn't need to see the action to spin you up a shouldered barrel. With a Defiance, they need to see it once, and as long as they save your action spec's, they can spin you up further shouldered barrels without seeing your action.

Another option I would strongly consider is the Lone Peak Fuzion. It's not as hyped up as the Impact, but it's every bit as good (if not better). The newest generation of the Fuzions are held to such tight tolerances, that a gunsmith never has to see the action (like the Impact). It runs great dirty or dry, and once broken in, that action feels butter smooth. In fact, pretty much everyone that I've talked to that has had both an Impact and a Lone Peak Fuzion has preferred the Lone Peak, including two top 10 PRS gunsmiths. No doubt the Impact is a great action, but it's certainly been hyped up hard on the internet - to the point where people are buying them and are left wondering what all the hype is about. I've heard it a few times.

All great options, but if I was in the market for another push feed action, it would be the LP Fuzion. Just got one for my wife's rifle build, and it's pretty slick. But honestly, all the top tier actions are great. Once you get into this tier, it's just nitpicking on your prefences and critiques between the actions.

I've never heard of lone peak fusions but I'll look into them this week. I do feel I'm going down the rabbit hole on this precision build. Only thing I'm set on is the chassis.

 

[sleeplz]

Anyone have any comparison notes on lone peak vs curtis vector?

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Anyone have any comparison notes on lone peak vs curtis vector?

3 lug - 60 degree vs 2 lug- 90 degree
Both push feed actions
Both are available with AW cuts
Both use a standard mini m16 extractor
I believe both are DLC coated (could be wrong here, not sure on the coating on the Fusion)

really come down to what your preferances are - 60 vs 90. Vector is smooth and runs great in all conditions as does the Lone Peak. Only issues i've heard from both are light strikes, but I believe the issues were resolved with both actions.

 

[HogsLife]

3 lug - 60 degree vs 2 lug- 90 degree
Both push feed actions
Both are available with AW cuts
Both use a standard mini m16 extractor
I believe both are DLC coated (could be wrong here, not sure on the coating on the Fusion)

really come down to what your preferances are - 60 vs 90. Vector is smooth and runs great in all conditions as does the Lone Peak. Only issues i've heard from both are light strikes, but I believe the issues were resolved with both actions.

I believe only th bolt is DLC Coated on the Lone Peak Fusions. I could be wrong though...

 

[Cjl2010]

I’ve got a titanium lone peak fusion and both bolt and body are nitride. Crazy smooth.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Impact won't do AWs so they're out unfortunately. Lone peak is in the plans for me.

 

[Subwrx300]

Recently built an Impact after getting hands on with a few actions (including a Deviant, Axiom and a few others). All feel great to be sure.

The Impact is a smooth (forward/backward) in a very unique way. It's not sloppy but more slippery and fast; honestly, it is a bit difficult to describe in words. Feels like a Teflon action with good clearance to run it fast from any orientation.

It feels very light on primary extraction, bolt flies rearward with very, very little flick, brass ejects straight 90 to the right, bolt close feels like it's two stages if running it slow but normal operation it feels like it shuts itself.

I had it 300 rounds dirty, then put 120-150 rounds down range with beach sand forward of firing position in a head wind... Sand goes everywhere. It simply ran flawlessly with zero change in feel.

I cleaned it when I got home and the amount of sand in and around the action was absurd! I never felt it! I would have had issues with my other actions, including rough bolt closure, sticky bolt, gritty feeling action and possibly binding. Impact: no issues at all. Pretty incredible actually.

The impact is really about small details in rough conditions. I still wish it was a 80 or 75 deg bolt though. Would help with clearance of ocular.

 

[Camocal]

Does anyone know what pound spring is on the firing pin in a impact?

 

[elmuzzlebreak]

The other big thing I'm wondering with these switch barrel actions (not the technical term) is setting headspace. Once you get a new barrel spun up do you have to check with a go and no go gauge or is it just plug and shoot?

 

[Tony1320]

Does anyone know what pound spring is on the firing pin in a impact?

I believe they come with a 20lb spring but I'm sure if you message Impact Precision they could confirm

 

[jkvinyard]

Impact won't do AWs so they're out unfortunately. Lone peak is in the plans for me.

Impact will do AW cut if you request it. It is just a 4-6 week wait on them.

 

[jkvinyard]

I believe they come with a 20lb spring but I'm sure if you message Impact Precision they could confirm

Does anyone know what pound spring is on the firing pin in a impact?

25lb spring is what they come with

 

[dc451718]

I was looking at Impact barrels, they were 750 to 800. Are all of them this expensive

 

[b6graham]

I was looking at Impact barrels, they were 750 to 800. Are all of them this expensive

depends who you get it from

Keystone, PVA, and others are cheaper than say Altus or Impact

 

[One1Bravo]

I was looking at Impact barrels, they were 750 to 800. Are all of them this expensive

$750 is average for a shouldered barrel. Look at getting a Kreiger from Keystone to save some $.

 

[Subwrx300]

I was looking at Impact barrels, they were 750 to 800. Are all of them this expensive

For the most part, yes. But you have to look at barrel cost differently:

Traditional barrel (non-prefit) - $350-400 barrel blank + $200 cut/chamber + 100 Threading = $650 - $700 installed plus you don't have your rifle for 4-12 weeks depending on the smith's workload. smart guys will have 2-3 cut at the same time to eliminate need for future gun vacations. Out of pocket cost: $1300-2100 if having 2-3 barrels made at once.

Prefit: $700-900 and done... and you keep your gun throughout. You get to keep your money for future barrels until you need to spend it.

 

[epaultmbt]

I've owned both Impact (x2) and Defiance Deviant (x1). The Impact's were ordered from Stuteville Precision, and the barrels were pre-fit from WAR rifles. The Defiance was set up by SAC. Both actions were used heavily in PRS with several barrels in several calibers. I also have a lot of experience with Surgeon actions, I used Surgeon for a few years in-between Defiance and Impact. There was a Badger 2013 and several AI AX308's and AXMC in the mix as well.

I ended up with a Defiance when the Surgeons dried up in 2011ish. I used the Defiance for just over a year and then went to a Badger. I Defiance would bind on the bolt stroke a bunch, and needed significant force to feed a fully loaded AICS mag. Bolt opening and closing was heavy (I don't think people pay enough attention to the importance of the opening and closing stroke or the feel of the action cocking). I was almost immediately in the market for another action. The Defiance's machining was excellent and It worked with both of the most popular triggers of the day (Timeny CE, and Jewell).

Then the Badger 2013, opening and closing was heavy, bolt stroke was fast and smooth. It worked with both CE and Jewell. Got out of it when I started shooting AI's.

Then Surgeon, light opening and closing movement and unnoticeable cocking. Stiff feeding on a full AICS mag. I have several Surgeon actions. Two that were 400ish apart in SN could use the same barrels, another that was 1000ish apart from the other two wouldn't headspace with those barrels and need to have barrels cut individually. I had continues trouble with triggers with all three action. between TriggerTech, CE, and Jewell some worked in some actions some didn't. none felt the same if swapped from action to action.

Then the AI's, This was the best feeding action I've had. The forward stroke on a full AIAX double stack bag had very little resistance, the least of any action I've tried. I believe it was due to feeding from a double stack with less spring tension. the DS mags had their own problems. The action had a unique cocking feeling, stiff at first on open then would pop to the top of the stroke. The close was forceful and needed forward pressure like a close on cock enfield. I could never get the hag of the trigger, several of my close friends have been very successful with AI triggers I expect that they're just better rifle shooters then I am. If the AI comp trigger existed back then I may still be shooting AI.

Finally Impact. I'm very happy with this action. I've used several barrels all pre-fit. I've even borrowed barrels from buddies to train with or shoot a match. The Impact has the least resistance in opening or closing the bolt. There's no noticeable feel of cocking. I have a hard time expressing how important the opening/cocking and closing of the bolt is in positional shooting. The cycling movement also has a huge affect on the phycological and physiological state of the shooter. With no mag the action cycles extremely fast and does not bind. With a full mag there's still quite a bit of stiff resistance in the forward stroke until you get down to the 4th or 5th round. I don't know if there's a way around this with single stack feeding mags. Trigger hanger, which I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is a huge advantage. Impact can match the trigger hanger to the distance needed for the desired trigger and feel (this also affects cocking feel). I'm using TT diamond on my current impacts and I can swap them back and forth with the same feel on both actions. I can also have a trigger in reserve in a hanger if something crazy happens.

The Impacts aren't hype, they're really that good. I often see a bunch of none sense on SH about jersey shooters using equipment that is provided or they receive money to shoot a product. There's only a few shooters that are living that life less then 20 and they're so good that they really only compete with each other. Others wouldn't use substandard equipment because they need every edge they can get ,so when you see hundreds of competitors using something it's because they think it gives them an advantage. Get the Impact.

 

[bjay]

Reading threads like this reason why i own both and other actions

 

[HogsLife]

Very little experience with Defiance. My buddy had one and he let me run the bolt on it during a match one time. Bolt stuck and that was all I needed to know. I’ve had both Surgeon and now Impact and love my Impact. Ridiculous smooth bolt operation.

I know you said you’re pretty well set on either of the 2 you mentioned, but I’ve heard the Lone Peak Arms Fuzion is pretty hard to beat, and many top level gunsmiths actually prefer it to the Impact. That’s probably gonna be my next build.

 

[HogsLife]

What are some notable differences that you can point out between the Impact and Surgeon other than easy barrel swaps with the impact?

Well the availabity of pre-fit Barrels is a huge factor, but other than that, the nitrated finish of the Impact is defiantly nice. I never had any issue with my surgeon. Loved it. The Impact is just an upgraded version of the surgeon for about the same price. It’s a no brainer to me.

PS. Let’s not forget about the customer service difference between surgeon and Impact as well. Just one more reason to go Impact.

 

[kthomas]

Very little experience with Defiance. My buddy had one and he let me run the bolt on it during a match one time. Bolt stuck and that was all I needed to know. I’ve had both Surgeon and now Impact and love my Impact. Ridiculous smooth bolt operation.

I know you said you’re pretty well set on either of the 2 you mentioned, but I’ve heard the Lone Peak Arms Fuzion is pretty hard to beat, and many top level gunsmiths actually prefer it to the Impact. That’s probably gonna be my next build.

EVERY one that I know who's had both the LP Fuzion and the Impact prefer the LP Fuzion - that includes two "top 10 PRS gunsmiths" as well as some top shooters.

I also know people that have gone Defiance, Impact and then back to Defiance. Some people make it sound like nothing compares to / on the same level as the Impact, which is simply not true.

Great action, and I wouldn't be afraid to own one, but there's lots of great actions out there these days. No one single action will be the best for everyone.

 

[bjay]

EVERY one that I know who's had both the LP Fuzion and the Impact prefer the LP Fuzion - that includes two "top 10 PRS gunsmiths" as well as some top shooters.

I also know people that have gone Defiance, Impact and then back to Defiance. Some people make it sound like nothing compares to / on the same level as the Impact, which is simply not true.

Great action, and I wouldn't be afraid to own one, but there's lots of great actions out there these days. No one single action will be the best for everyone.

I remember those days we only debating deviant vs surgeon.
So i guess now is a IMPROVED version of surgeon (impact) vs.
Deviant (lp fuzion)

 

[HogsLife]

EVERY one that I know who's had both the LP Fuzion and the Impact prefer the LP Fuzion - that includes two "top 10 PRS gunsmiths" as well as some top shooters.

I also know people that have gone Defiance, Impact and then back to Defiance. Some people make it sound like nothing compares to / on the same level as the Impact, which is simply not true.

Great action, and I wouldn't be afraid to own one, but there's lots of great actions out there these days. No one single action will be the best for everyone.

I agree. These upper level actions are all really nice. Can’t go wrong with any of them. He’ll i bought my daughter a Bighorn Arms Origin Action and that thing is smooth as glass! If I had my choice I’d probably own

1. LPA Fusion
2. Impact
3. Bighorn TL3 and might even choose the TL3 over the Impact due to the floating bolt head.

My next hunting rifle build will be on an LPA Fuzion Titanium in a 6.5 PRC though.

 

[kthomas]

I remember those days we only debating deviant vs surgeon.
So i guess now is a IMPROVED version of surgeon (impact) vs.
Deviant (lp fuzion)

Defiances have come a long ways since then as well.

My long action IonBonded Defiance (on my .300NM rifle) is much better than the Defiance Rebel/GAP Crusader action I used to use as my PRS rifle.

 

[kthomas]

Then Surgeon, light opening and closing movement and unnoticeable cocking. Stiff feeding on a full AICS mag. I have several Surgeon actions. Two that were 400ish apart in SN could use the same barrels, another that was 1000ish apart from the other two wouldn't headspace with those barrels and need to have barrels cut individually. I had continues trouble with triggers with all three action. between TriggerTech, CE, and Jewell some worked in some actions some didn't. none felt the same if swapped from action to action.

Then finally Impact. I'm very happy with this action. I've used several barrels all pre-fit. I've even borrowed barrels from buddies to train with or shoot a match. The Impact has the least resistance in opening or closing the bolt. There's no noticeable feel of cocking. I have a hard time expressing how important the opening/cocking and closing of the bolt is in positional shooting. The cycling movement also has a huge affect on the phycological and physiological state of the shooter. With no mag the action cycles extremely fast and does not bind. With a full mag there's still quite a bit of stiff resistance in the forward stroke until you get down to the 4th or 5th round. I don't know if there's a way around this with single stack feeding mags. Trigger hanger, which I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is a huge advantage. Impact can match the trigger hanger to the distance needed for the desired trigger and feel (this also affects cocking feel). I'm using TT diamond on my current impacts and I can swap them back and forth with the same feel on both actions. I can also have a trigger in reserve in a hanger if something crazy happens.

The Impacts aren't hype, they're really that good. I often see a bunch of none sense on SH about jersey shooters using equipment that is provided or they receive money to shoot a product. There's only a few shooters that are living that life less then 20 and they're so good that they really only compete with each other. Others wouldn't use substandard equipment because they need every edge they can get ,so when you see hundreds of competitors using something it's because they think it gives them an advantage. Get the Impact.

The trigger hanger is a neat feature, which unfortunately gets in the way of certain stocks and chassis. Certainly manageable. If you use a trigger like a BnA Tacsport, which you can time to any action, it's a moot point. But I do agree trigger timing is really important.

Plenty of great actions these days, that "jersey shooters" can jump freely from action to action year to year and not be handicapped. There's more than a few "jersey shooters" that are on their third action brand in as many years, and every social media post is the same "brand 'X' is the best brand of action manufacturer ever and I couldn't have won PRS event 'Y' without it". Gets old, and it really waters down their endorsement. It's a bit sad how bad it is in this hobby, and I'm surprised manufacturers put up with all the watered down pandering endorsements.

Shoot what works best for YOU. May not be what all the cheerleaders on the internet are croaking about.

 

[frost1235]

Lone Peak or Impact. TBH, it's looking like the Lone Peak is the best of both the impact and the deviant actions.