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Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

peteyen86

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 11, 2010
24
14
38
Gippsland, Vic, Australia
Hey Guys,
Question for all the Aussies out there. I'am wanting to import a Manners stock possibly with there new DBM Mini Chassis system into Australia. This will be for a 308 I'm wanting to put together.
I've never done this before so was looking for any advice on how to go about it? what permits I may need etc.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks Pete.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Pete,

Getting the permits from the Australian side is quite easy - speak to your firearms registry about getting a B709 import application. There is no charge ( at least not in NSW ) & they take about 2 weeks to come through. You will need a B709 for magazines, but not really for the stock itself, however they are so easy to get you may as well do so anyway.

I have imported complete rifles & parts into Australia from overseas with no issues at all. Get the paperwork sorted & it is easy.

Paperwork on the US side of the pond however, is sometimes a different story.

Best of luck with it.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

I've been thinking about this too. I've been looking for an Australian distributor for Bell & Carlson but its probably cheaper to buy from the US.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Hey Guys.

Thanks for your help.

Ill get in touch with Manners and see what they say, however from what I have been told here and elsewhere, like pc3 has said, "Lightforce Australia is there sole distributor in Australia" now, so guess ill be getting in contact with them at some stage.

And yes ken2903 it would be cheaper to import from the states if you can.

Thanks again guys.

Pete
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Nothing like another great product being taken away from the public by a big importer/distributor! I like paying more the same product that you could get before this happened!!! I am just glad I got my Manners before this.

It seems like it is a race between the Aussie Importers/Distributors to get hold of as many products as they can, then get sole distribution of the goods and then up the price. Welcome to business I guess.

Just keep bending us over!!!! FFS look at the price of Bergers now since the importer has taken them from the smaller guys!

I love my Manners.. but not enough to get another now due to this "sole distribution". So much for choices!!!

Cheers
 
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Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Unless you can buy from a OS retailer and have them send it over? Still going to be much cheaper.

The problem with our "greed is good" market is people are forced to make a choice between buying for the sport or quitting and buying food. In the end the retailers, importers and everyone has lost. Pity many of them are far too stupid to see this. My local market is "locked" in with only certain retailers being allowed to sell most of the products. Anyone else is not able to buy from the importers. Local prices are REALLY high. Less "normal" shooters buy the products. the smart ones buy from another state OR import. Nothing is gained by anyone.

I now import ANYTHING I can unless I know of a good supplier. There are some around. Add a local dealer who will do transfers and that's another option for some goods.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

This is so true, I feel sorry for the retailers as most of them only make a small profit on their sales while the importers make a killing. I just hope that more people start realizing this and bring in their own gear maybe that will give the greedy importers the hint.
Cheers Lachlan
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ackley Improved</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I love my Manners.. but not enough to get another now due to this "sole distribution". So much for choices!!!

Cheers </div></div>Just my 2 cents on shipping overseas. The days of going down to the post office and marking the package "custom painted fiberglass parts" is coming to a end. The hard part is not foreign customs, it is the US customs. Believe me we have learned this the hard way. Once a package gets held up buy US customs you might not see it again and if you do, it might not be for a very long time. Having a packaging held up like this does no one any good. You just end up with a very pissed off customer. We spend a tremendous amount of money to be registered and comply as a manufacture with the US State Department (DDTC). By law if you just manufacture a military related item in the US and dont export, you still must register. The DDTC classifies anything gun or ammo related a military item. To export a firearm related item out of the US, you must be registered with the DDTC as a export-shipping broker. All I am trying to say is that it cost money to go through the proper channels.. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way standing up for the guys that price gouge the end user. They are not the ones responsible for our company growth. We felt that over the long run that we would be able to give better customer service and quicker delivery times to the people that mater most to us, the shooters. That is why we are setting up overseas inventory stocking distributors. One of the main goals as we do this is to try and keep the cost to the end user, as close to same as it would be if he or she would go through the proper channels..
Thank you very much,
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thomas Manners</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ackley Improved</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Cheers </div></div>Just my 2 cents on shipping overseas. The days of going down to the post office and marking the package "custom painted fiberglass parts" is coming to a end. The hard part is not foreign customs, it is the US customs. Believe me we have learned this the hard way. Once a package gets held up buy US customs you might not see it again and if you do, it might not be for a very long time. Having a packaging held up like this does no one any good. You just end up with a very pissed off customer. We spend a tremendous amount of money to be registered and comply as a manufacture with the US State Department (DDTC). By law if you just manufacture a military related item in the US and dont export, you still must register. The DDTC classifies anything gun or ammo related a military item. To export a firearm related item out of the US, you must be registered with the DDTC as a export-shipping broker. All I am trying to say is that it cost money to go through the proper channels.. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way standing up for the guys that price gouge the end user. They are not the ones responsible for our company growth. We felt that over the long run that we would be able to give better customer service and quicker delivery times to the people that mater most to us, the shooters. That is why we are setting up overseas inventory stocking distributors. One of the main goals as we do this is to try and keep the cost to the end user, as close to same as it would be if he or she would go through the proper channels..
Thank you very much,
</div></div>

Many are in the difficult position you face. Quite a few manage to work within the system.
I hope things work out as you want. I really doubt it. Knowing our market quite well and what goes on here the end result is likely to be much higher prices than direct imports, long wait times for "batch" orders and many assorted other problem. I can think of a very few importers who are able to improve on prices and supply and (REALLY important) support. I do think it should be the customers choice on who they buy from. I don't think we should be forced to buy locally if we don't want to. There are some very good reasons why many of us direct import products.


For others, our local support is REALLY bad. Break a common firing pin? 6+ months wait even though they are required by law to keep stock. I can get faster service from buying OS than locally in most cases.
I get better service, support and often shipping times by buying from OS!
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

I can understand what Tom is saying. From what i have heard, the US laws are making things alot harder these days. Here i was thinking i might have problems with Aus customs. If only Australian distributers didnt hike up the prices so much. I havent got a quote in Aus as of yet, so guess ill see just how much of a price difference there is! and go from there.

Thanks

Pete
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Hi Guys,
I happen to work for Lightforce, and I can tell you the margins we put on Manners stocks are not high at all and we not be increasing prices now that we are distributor. This would be self defeating as if we did jack prices up, no one would buy from us and Manners would appoint a new distributor. All I would suggest to people who reckon our prices are too high is to look into what is actually involved at commercially importing and all the associated costs. Manners stocks are a world class product, and our prices are very good. To the Aussie guys on this site, give us a call and we can give you prices for the entire Manners range and we carry heaps in stock.
Cheers,

Andrew
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Having imported a stock direct from Tom I have to say this development can't be good for us aussies. Andrew, exactly what associated costs are you referring to? When I brought a Manners over the price was as per Tom's website plus $38.65 shipping.

What has changed in the last few months that would blow costs out?

Thanks
Rath
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

aussiearmourer... can you sell me a Manners T2A for the price of $785AUS. I have included $90US for postage, which is more than what my previous stocks have come in at. This is the price it would currently cost me to import one myself.

If you cant, then we are paying more than we previously did, and I do beleive it is unfair!!!

Tom, mate I am 110% happy with the T2A I have. I just hate the idea of sole distributors, and what usually happens with prices when this happens. I understand the Australian distributor will try and keep the price down, but can it be the same as what I could get it myself beforehand? WHat if I had a export permit, would you send stock to me then, or are you locked into this "sole distributor" idea?

I import every last thing I can from the US. There is just to many fingers in the pie by time the associated goods makes it to the public here in Oz.

Berger 6.5 130VLD's, cheapest I can find is $73AUS ($65US). Awesome when a distributor gets a product, makes them expensive.. and even better doesnt have the range in stock at all!!

Cheers
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

I understand that companies have to pay gst and import duty on any items imported but often their price is far above that cost.

For instance an AICS stock can be imported for $900AUD (retail price) yet to buy it in Australia will cost you $2000AUD. I love to support australian companies and if the price is good I always do, but when you are saving over $1000 it is hard to justify the loss.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

For far too many things in Aus there is rampant price gouging. Sole distributorship is not good for Aussies. Everything from stocks, RCBS ammomasters, dies, certain rifles etc.
Note that what the distributors pay is not what we pay direct from the US. So why the massive markup?
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aussiearmourer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Guys,
I happen to work for Lightforce, and I can tell you the margins we put on Manners stocks are not high at all and we not be increasing prices now that we are distributor.

<span style="color: #FF0000">It adds 2 additional profit margins, plus shipping. A "high" margin here is how much? 50%? </span>

This would be self defeating as if we did jack prices up, no one would buy from us and Manners would appoint a new distributor.

<span style="color: #FF0000"> Please name me some products that are not significantly more expensive here than OS? Allowing for post and fees there are VERY few items which are not MUCH cheaper being direct imported.
When your argument is not supported by fact you need to step back and think. </span>

All I would suggest to people who reckon our prices are too high is to look into what is actually involved at commercially importing and all the associated costs.

<span style="color: #FF0000">There you go. Why should we HAVE to pay more? What do we get? You think in many cases it's not going to be faster to order and have the items shipped from OS? That many of us have poor local service, even if you are great we still have to deal with a retailer. We pay more, get less. </span>

Manners stocks are a world class product, and our prices are very good. To the Aussie guys on this site, give us a call and we can give you prices for the entire Manners range and we carry heaps in stock.
Cheers,

<span style="color: #FF0000"> What's the wait time for a non stock item? How often do you order? Batch ordering to make it cheap right? Every 3 months? 6? What if I need a uncommon part? Part of the batch order?
How long will my local retailer hold the order before processing it? Os shipping times should be well under 14 days for ANY Manners product and cheaper than buying here. We gain at best warranty service. Is this something Manners products often need? </span>


Andrew </div></div>


Call a spade a spade.
WE should be able to buy from who WE want, when WE want.
Let's not BS about this. It is NOT a good thing for most of US. It is a good thing for Manners, you and local retailers. Just be upfront about it.


I would suggest any MFR's who are looking at going this way spend some time looking at how our market is and how much many importers and retailers are out to screw us. I can't buy 3/4 of imported products from one of the three "local" retailers (for over 2 million people) as he has been locked out. If I'm buying a few crates of RF ammunition it's cheaper for me to drive 1000km's each way than buy locally.


<span style="color: #FF0000">Manners, will you "punish" OS retailers who ship your products here?
This is a VERY important question and needs an answer. </span>

Don't take any of this personally. We know our market and what goes on. You don't.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Hi all,
I have to agree with AUJohn with what he is saying. It has been a money saving experiance buying direct from the states,yes, a headache for some tactical products yet they still arrived,(problem US customs).Orderd a new scope from U.S.a saving of $800 ,34mm rings here they wanted $650 ordered seekins $130 delivered,and i can go on and on. My gunshop dealer even tells me to order in because it is cheaper.so When i need to order i will order from overseas.More money saved more money to spend on the range.
regards
Guy
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Exporting firearms related items out of the US is expensive. The last place that I contacted had a price breakdown that was approximately this:

$249.00 for the first line item
$50.00 for each additional line item
additional 3% of the total cost of goods.

For example:

6 units of MOD1Mk 1 stocks at $500 each
6 units of MOD2Mk 2 stocks at $500 each

Thats $249 for the first stock, plus $50 for the MOD2Mk2's, plus the 3% for $180.00

That totals $479.00 in EXPORT fees, not counting shipping/insurance and IMPORT fees on your end.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Is that going through a customs broker or is that the Department of state DDTC fees?.

You can register to export with the department of state then export yourself?
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.....
That totals $479.00 in EXPORT fees, not counting shipping/insurance and IMPORT fees on your end.

</div></div>

Which is relevant how? If WE want to direct order OR order from an OS supplier WE should be able to.
Yes, there is a cost. Who normally pays these costs? The customer
wink.gif

If the MFR does not want to support it, no problems. As long as we can import with out the retailer on your end being locked out or "punished".

I would also suggest you shop around a bit. Guys here are able to pay all the fees and still make enough of a saving on many rifles to be worth importing grey. The fee's you presented seem much higher than what I have seen on invoices.

Steve, would you be happy not being able to supply our market? Would it matter if we paid over 100% more on your local RETAIL prices? It matters to many of us.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


Call a spade a spade. WE should be able to buy from who WE want, when WE want.
Let's not BS about this. It is NOT a good thing for most of US. It is a good thing for Manners, you and local retailers. Just be upfront about it.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Manners, will you "punish" OS retailers who ship your products here?
This is a VERY important question and needs an answer. </span>
Don't take any of this personally. We know our market and what goes on. You don't. </div></div>

OK lets call a spade a spade, and stop the BS. If a retailer or individual would like to ship a stock overseas why would we want to punish them, our main coal is customer satisfaction. We also have no way of controlling this. They will need to decide if they are going to go through proper channels or if they are going to take risk and play craps with their funds and ship the items under the table. We have lost at this crap game in the past via our funds and customer service and no longer wish to play. Please read my last post in this thread - quote (All I am trying to say is that it cost money to go through the proper channels.. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way standing up for the guys that price gouge the end user. They are not the ones responsible for our company growth. We felt that over the long run that we would be able to give better customer service and quicker delivery times to the people that mater most to us, the shooters. One of the main goals as we do this is to try and keep the cost to the end user, as close to same as it would be if he or she would go through the proper channels.. ) I am sorry but I have no way of controlling what the other countries charge for duties or what other items other than our stocks, like bullets, brass and other shooting items cost from other retails in overseas countries. If you would like to purchase a stock please let us know and we will get you fixed up asap. We will be glad to forward to an address in the US or if you give us a date that your shipping agent is going to have it picked up at our door we will make sure that it is ready to go. As long as it is a standard build we will not need a deposit, all funds are due the day of shipping. You can order through our web page or email me direct at [email protected] and I will get you fixed up asap. Thank you very much,
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?


Actually , It's got NOTHING to do with the amount of TAX countries charge ie GST or VAT , that is not the issue at all .

The single ISSUE is the US GovT / State Dept redtape for sporting goods & compliance costs , both the cost to hold a FFL Export licence( this went from $500 to $1500 to $7500 or$75,000 , I have been told both ) & the cost of actual permitting .

All its actually doing is stopping the US companies shipping outside the US to sporting shooters ( and we are NOT the problem , thanks Osama ) , its SO Bad , in Redtape & cost , THAT you now have companies in the UK making Rem700 actions , and companies in Germany making AR15 clones etc , both of those things is just crazy .

All I would like is some REASON & commonsense applied , BUT that is probably NEVER going to happen .

Again , the problem is INSIDE the USA completely .

Honestly , the US GovT is doing US companies some major damage .

Thank GOD , Accuracy International is a UK company .

Later Chris



 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thomas Manners</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
AUJohn said:
OK lets call a spade a spade, and stop the BS. If a retailer or individual would like to ship a stock overseas why would we want to punish them, our main coal is customer satisfaction.

<span style="color: #FF0000">That was a valid question. It happens with other products. "We" know our market. Notice all the Aussies have said the same thing?</span>

We also have no way of controlling this. They will need to decide if they are going to go through proper channels or if they are going to take risk and play craps with their funds and ship the items under the table.

<span style="color: #FF0000">"Under the table" means what? If there is no issues from your end were a retailer sells the product then it's up to them. We can buy where we want and everyone is happy. It's not like there is a shortage of honest retailers who are willing, able and happy to support us taking the risks you outlined. </span>

We have lost at this crap game in the past via our funds and customer service and no longer wish to play. Please read my last post in this thread - quote (All I am trying to say is that it cost money to go through the proper channels.. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way standing up for the guys that price gouge the end user.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I don't think any of us have an issue with you no longer wanting to support our market directly and going this way. We would have an issue if we were forced to use it. MUCH of what we buy is at a inflated price that cannot reasonably be explained. Notice all the Aussies have said this and all are unhappy about it. </span>

They are not the ones responsible for our company growth. We felt that over the long run that we would be able to give better customer service and quicker delivery times to the people that mater most to us, the shooters.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I would doubt there is going to be much of a speed increase over direct orders on the whole. </span>

One of the main goals as we do this is to try and keep the cost to the end user, as close to same as it would be if he or she would go through the proper channels.. )

<span style="color: #FF0000">Which would be great. No one has a problem with this. We do have a problem with other issues which many have commented on. </span>

I am sorry but I have no way of controlling what the other countries charge for duties or what other items other than our stocks, like bullets, brass and other shooting items cost from other retails in overseas countries.

<span style="color: #FF0000">As you well know, those were examples of how we are screwed over and why we don't want to see more of this going on. </span>


If you would like to purchase a stock please let us know and we will get you fixed up asap. We will be glad to forward to an address in the US or if you give us a date that your shipping agent is going to have it picked up at our door we will make sure that it is ready to go. As long as it is a standard build we will not need a deposit, all funds are due the day of shipping. You can order through our web page or email me direct at [email protected] and I will get you fixed up asap. Thank you very much,
</div></div>

"We" gave direct, accurate input, raised some issues and pointed some facts out. This was done with respect and knowing you have no idea of how our market works. No point getting wound up when your market here gives you direct input. How about you ask the importer the questions I put forwards and in a year post on a few forums or contact end users and see if the issues I raised turn out to be real ones
wink.gif

Maybe even poke around and see what warranty times are like with a certain popular scope brand over here.
As someone who is respected and well known for a quality product I would think the fact ALL the Aussies who replied had issues and raised concerns would make you want to think about it and not get wound up at our responses.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Thomas Manners

I have one quick question now for you.

You are now supplying Lightforce Australia with Manners Stocks. To do this you would have needed a Export Permit to do so, which is the cost your end. Under this Export permit you could ship as many stocks as you would like until this Permit Expires. Under this Permit, you could also ship to individuals, just like myself and others.

If this is the case, why would you not just do it this way anyway? Either way you have needed to get a Permit, or a Permit is involved.

I would say that a Manners are a lesser known stock in Australia, and for the average shooter with the price of them which is even more now, they will not go for them. It is people who do the research, find that your products are second to none and then seek to import them/puchase them.

Generally is seems our market is all for mausers and SMLE's and cheap shit, which the average shoot has!!! We do not have a market for a sole distributor I would suggest, specially with a population of under 30 million, which only a small portion are shooters.. then even a smaller portion are after specific gear like you stocks.

I think it is this specific gear that for some reason, is the holy grail when distributors get it, and think for this reason it must be worth 40% more than it actually is.

I have seen it many times over here, as said previously, a race to get the monopoly and then fix the prices where they want them.

I have a Manners stock, love it to bits.. but I do not want to support a gross money making machine.

Cheers
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

I wonder if any of you Australian guys on here that are whinging and bitching would actually care to see what our prices are on Manners stocks? My email address is [email protected] and you can ring me and ask direct if you like. I was going to let this go, but with all these comments about price gouging I think its only fair that you find out what we are actually charging rather than assume we are ripping you off. Anyone that takes the time to contact me will see we are being VERY reasonable with price.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aussiearmourer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if any of you Australian guys on here that are whinging and bitching would actually care to see what our prices are on Manners stocks? My email address is [email protected] and you can ring me and ask direct if you like. I was going to let this go, but with all these comments about price gouging I think its only fair that you find out what we are actually charging rather than assume we are ripping you off. Anyone that takes the time to contact me will see we are being VERY reasonable with price. </div></div>

You have time to attack your customer base yet avoid any questions which are too hard.
Many of the points being raised are accurate, factual and if you don't give a shit about our markets is then at the very least don't expose your stupidity to the world by letting everyone know.
Why the fuck would we want to buy from you now?

For our American friends, THIS type of shit is why many of us don't like to buy from many Aussie importers. This type of arrogance and rudeness to genuine comments and questions from locals is quite normal. I can buy from your market, cheaper and get far better support on most products than buying locally. Even if I don't save anything, the local idiots are often so bad we are FAR better off in the long run by buying OS. A few weeks ago I was chatting to one of the local retailers about stocks and they suggested I import it myself due to inflated prices. Same retailer is heavily supplied buy the importer posting above.
 
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Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Maybe settle it down a bit fellas? Of course importing of 'small' components is going to work out cheaper for the end user as there is no middle party involved in the transaction, but think about this from Toms' perspective - he has ONE 'buyer' down under - no need to worry about differing addresses and all that stuff, the stocks go to lightforce and from there to the end user/purchaser (right... ? ) means less hassle for Tom posting stuff down here and more time spent on stocks.

There's a thread up on AHN at the moment with the prices, I recommend that you all check it out if not already, and if you're not a member (join up :p ) but contact aussiearmourer for some prices, but they look pretty damn reasonable when compared to a Wild Dog...... (cbf checking the McMillan price conversions atm and I probably wont, please educate me :))

AUJohn - I hear where you're coming from re the AU importers and i'm not disagreeing with you on the majority of them (Remington as an example are priced at the 'drop your pants and BOHIC' level as far as i'm concerned ) time will tell on the Manners stocks though.

*edit* I dont work / know lightforce/nightforce/adelaide entity that is bringing these buggers in, i'm just playing devils advocate and putting some dollar logic in between the end user and the businessman
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

All you need for an acid test on aussie agents for anything firearms related is what happens to their prices when we get a favourable shift in the foreign exchange rate for the oz dollar vs. the greenback. Quite often (in my experience) their prices stay the same - and when you question this, they state that they're trying to move stock bought at the old rate...and then in the next breath tell you they've got to order what you want in anyway. Colour me stupid but some of us are a wake up to this sort of practice.

Generally, I'll give an Australian supplier first shot at a sale and sometimes they come up trumps - but when you know you're being bent over then frankly, they can pack sand. The firearms industry here has a reputation for terrible customer service and it is largely well deserved. Unfortunately, the few good blokes get tarred with the same brush. Most blokes won't mind paying a bit extra but being profiteered and getting a who-gives-a-f*ck attitude at the same time is a bit much.

If you can go through the pain of U.S export/Aus import, go for it - it won't be a huge amount cheaper at the end of the day but you'll save a bit. Give the rest to the few Aussie agents who actually give a shit.

FYI - Aussie Armourer did a gun-kote job for me a few years back. Cheap and fast turn-around. Job well done.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Priest</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All you need for an acid test on aussie agents for anything firearms related is what happens to their prices when we get a favourable shift in the foreign exchange rate for the oz dollar vs. the greenback. Quite often (in my experience) their prices stay the same - and when you question this, they state that they're trying to move stock bought at the old rate...and then in the next breath tell you they've got to order what you want in anyway. Colour me stupid but some of us are a wake up to this sort of practice.
</div></div>

It's great watching the gun advertisements jump around like a school kid with ADHD when the exchange rate goes ballistic isn't it? :p
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

What do we gain buying it from them?
If there was decent customer service then sure, pay more.
Anyone here think his response was acceptable?
Anyone wonder why he has not answered a few questions that have been asked?
Anyone been paying attention in the F Class forums about issues with certain scopes and the local response times?

I can pay less and get far better service OS.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiteMeat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe settle it down a bit fellas? Of course importing of 'small' components is going to work out cheaper for the end user as there is no middle party involved in the transaction, but think about this from Toms' perspective - he has ONE 'buyer' down under - no need to worry about differing addresses and all that stuff, the stocks go to lightforce and from there to the end user/purchaser (right... ? ) means less hassle for Tom posting stuff down here and more time spent on stocks.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Which was not the point was it? WE didn't want to HAVE to buy it locally. WE also wanted to put our point of view, as the market he is selling to. Some very good, logical and accurate posts have been made which have been totally ignored by both of them. Oh well, we know our market means little to most OS MFRs....
It's also quite clear from reading what has been posted that the issue is not about small price differences. It's about how we normally get done over by a huge margin. I don't understand you responding like this then the additional posts about how we get screwed on prices. Is it just LF you want to defend then?
The end users gains nothing from this deal. (If your argument about the reasoning behind this was accurate wouldn't he move to a similar arrangement in all markets?)</span>

There's a thread up on AHN at the moment with the prices, I recommend that you all check it out if not already, and if you're not a member (join up :p ) but contact aussiearmourer for some prices, but they look pretty damn reasonable when compared to a Wild Dog...... (cbf checking the McMillan price conversions atm and I probably wont, please educate me :))

<span style="color: #FF0000">You cannot justify prices by comparing like that.
Other forums, depends on what you want and your standards. I use forums to learn, help others and exchange ideas. Every forum I am a member of has guys who KNOW. World class shooters and people who build guns or use them like I never will. Private forums which are highly focussed on revenue, where you have to check you are not saying something bad about a sponsors product even if it's true, where there is a school yard mentality and where most informed shooters have left offer me and many others nothing. For social users or guys who are still gaining basic knowledge then I'm sure they will be happy
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</span>

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Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #FF0000">I don't understand you responding like this then the additional posts about how we get screwed on prices. Is it just LF you want to defend then?
The end users gains nothing from this deal. (If your argument about the reasoning behind this was accurate wouldn't he move to a similar arrangement in all markets?)</span>
</div></div>

Well, as you only selected a certain part of my original post on the matter, I will return the courtesy to you:

"I don't understand you responding like this then the additional posts about how we get screwed on prices. Is it just LF you want to defend then?"

Did you forget to read / conveniently ignore the text under that from the original post:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AUJohn - I hear where you're coming from re the AU importers and i'm not disagreeing with you on the majority of them (Remington as an example are priced at the 'drop your pants and BOHIC' level as far as i'm concerned ) time will tell on the Manners stocks though.

*edit* I dont work / know lightforce/nightforce/adelaide entity that is bringing these buggers in, i'm just playing devils advocate and putting some dollar logic in between the end user and the businessman</div></div>

I take it that you didn't actually bother to find out what the prices are currently ?
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ackley Improved</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Prices look good... will it last...

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since it's lightforce/nightforce I would say not. give it a year and the prices will be jacked up I do find it quite amazing that they have come out with a semi decent price on the manner stocks for that I applaud them it must have taken an immense physiological force to put a lower price on an item they sell.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Let me ask this if I may. If an Aussie buys a item from a common Joe Blow on ebay, do all of the import/customes tax crap apply since the seller is not a business, he/she just has an extra item sitting around that is not needed? It seems like a harsh deal for you guys to buy something outside of your country.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thunder1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ackley Improved</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Prices look good... will it last...

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since it's lightforce/nightforce I would say not. give it a year and the prices will be jacked up I do find it quite amazing that they have come out with a semi decent price on the manner stocks for that I applaud them it must have taken an immense physiological force to put a lower price on an item they sell. </div></div>

Yes, I would near bet they will. With making apparantly so little money on them, why would you bother wasting the man power and resources of a big company.

I had piss poor service with Lightforce over a Nightforce scope that I do not hold them high in regard. It is not acceptable, but I do thank them, cause I bought a S&B 5-25 and a Premier 5-25 instead. Thankyou

Time will tell....

Lastly, do not take it out on Aussieamourer.. he is a good guy! I think the issues are the button pushes above him


CHeers
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Thanks AI, you are correct in saying that most decisions are above me. I dont have any dealings with the Nightforce side of things, and I also understand there has been issues with service of NF customers. My job at Lightforce is building custom rifles for APRS and that is how we started our relationship with Manners. Tom has been nothing but helpful to us, and I certainly hope that this relationship continues for years to come. I am doing everything in my limited power to keep prices where they are as I very well understand the Australian market, contrary to what some people has indicated. If anyone would like to discuss this with me, please PM me as I dont think some issues are appropriate for a public forum. As I stated before, I am happy to give people prices if they just ask
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

On another note, blokes - does anyone know where in the hell down here I can find a pre-cut steel silhouette in AR500 or bizalloy, or something else hardened? Also looking for a resetting pepper popper in similar material, to take high velocity impacts.

I'll be stuffed if I can find anything - but would be willing to pay if I could. Hopefully not through the nose, like most other things in Australia...
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Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Priest - I found this website, but haven't tried them yet www.aussiestep.com.au

Back on topic, I have to congratulate Lightforce/Nightforce for their pricing policy on Manners stocks. I have purchased another US made synthetic stock via the Australian importer and got gouged by more than $300A. When I had a problem with the stock, they couldn't help. I went directly to the manufacturer with my problem and got a replacement stock shipped direct, so have ordered direct from them since.

I really like the Manners T2A and mini chassis and am about to order one - and was initially disappointed to hear of the Lightforce deal. Then I saw their prices. Finally someone is being reasonable with their margins (after all US retailers make a margin on these items too). I will be putting my money where my mouth is and ordering my first Manners as soon as I can get the money together. If enough people order, Lightforce will get the message and continue with their pricing model.

Cheers, Jason.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

I choose to support the hide vendors... Despite having worked in the industry for years over here.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I</span> can get exactly what <span style="font-weight: bold">I</span> want when <span style="font-weight: bold">I</span> want it and if something goes wrong have a <span style="font-weight: bold">much better chance</span> of getting it fixed.

Seen both sides of the fence, businesses need to make money to survive. If people want a hard to get product and you can source it then it's only natural to offer that product while trying to pay the bills HOWEVER some products are obviously more expensive than they should be... Perhaps to take advantage of such a niche market thats when it becomes Un-Australian and time to shop elswhere.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiteMeat
Well, as you only selected a certain part of my original post on the matter, I will return the courtesy to you:
<span style="color: #FF0000">Why would I bother to spend much time on a reply when you haven't bothered to read much of what others have said? Did YOU answer many of the other points raised? If you did read them it's a bit odd just how very selective you are
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</span>

Did you forget to read / conveniently ignore the text under that from the original post:
<span style="color: #FF0000">Yes, I read that. Means nothing when you are being VERY selective. To post what you did you had to ignore much of what many others said. It's bloody cheeky to tell us to settle down when you can't answer what was said, didn't seem to understand it and looked a lot like your POV is only to post in defence even if what you are saying is incorrect. </span>

I take it that you didn't actually bother to find out what the prices are currently ? [/quote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #FF0000">I take it most of what has been said here went WAY over your head? The only other option is that you are playing games and doing it here, like this is going to make you look quite silly
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jasonaus said:
Back on topic, I have to congratulate Lightforce/Nightforce for their pricing policy on Manners stocks. I have purchased another US made synthetic stock via the Australian importer and got gouged by more than $300A. When I had a problem with the stock, they couldn't help. I went directly to the manufacturer with my problem and got a replacement stock shipped direct, so have ordered direct from them since.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Enjoy it while it lasts
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You might even find I raised that point much earlier in the thread, let's see in a year or two how things are going
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Do you think the Warranty/support of Manners is going to be better than buying direct?
In earlier posts I made some points about local support and waiting times. Have a good long think about what I am getting at. At least one person in this thread has had issues right?</span>

I really like the Manners T2A and mini chassis and am about to order one - and was initially disappointed to hear of the Lightforce deal. Then I saw their prices. Finally someone is being reasonable with their margins (after all US retailers make a margin on these items too). I will be putting my money where my mouth is and ordering my first Manners as soon as I can get the money together. If enough people order, Lightforce will get the message and continue with their pricing model.
</div></div>

You are missing a few things
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When bringing in a new and reasonably unknown product to a new market (Not much exposure here for Manners products.) you need to get them into the community, get some sales and once you have a foot in the door you raise the price. You get a few reviews done first of course
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To get a reasonable idea of how an importer will price products you look at everything they sell. If over the range the prices are reasonable then it's possible they will keep them that way.
After this you have one more question "What do I get by buying locally?"
Will you get better service and warranty buying OS?
How many others have had issues?
How does the company act? I mean, if they had guys comming on here and abusing us then you might get the idea there is a fair bit of arrogance and you bloody well want to hope you don't have issues with them don't you?

Come on, when you have staff saying there have been issues with the support of other products they sell (which some of us know about) why on earth do you think ANYTHING they sell will be different? Support issues are a <span style="font-weight: bold">management</span> problem. Reread the thread, think
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I'm disappointed about this. About the responses that were given to reasonable direct input from a local market, to the same old shit we always hear, that in a year or two when things do what we know they will, where will we be? What has been gained? I posted to provide input KNOWING how things ARE and WILL be. I don't like how our market is (like having to ring a firearms MFR to get parts under warranty because the importer won't do anything!) so speak up. Others have done the same and once more it's simply a total waste of time. I don't think any of us were trying to be unhelpful or attacking. We have a real issue here.
 
Re: Importing Manners Stock & DBM Into Australia?

Quote:I don't like how our market is (like having to ring a firearms MFR to get parts under warranty because the importer won't do anything!) so speak up.

My son bought a brand new remington 7615 a couple of years ago, from Horsley Park. The rifle was a real dog, and would only function with remington ammo. All other brands (we tried quite a few)resulted in EVERY round jamned so tight in the chamber that the case had to be forced out with a cleaning rod. Horsley Park refered the matter to the importer (raytrade). Raytrade inspected the rifle and determined that as it worked with remington ammo there was nothing wrong with it. They refused to repair fo replace it. Eentually I complaioned enough on a local hunting forum that the manager of Horsley Park replaced the rifle with a brand new one, at his expense. The new rifle works flawlessly, with all brands of .223 ammo.

The point of this story is that even some of the biggest members of the gun trade in Australia act like cowboys, with very poor customer service and no concern for the individuals who make up their market. I buy whatever I can from overseas.