Night Vision In your opinion...

[Edgecrusher]

I'm looking to pick up a new thermal and have narrowed the choice down to a couple based on factors that are important to me, which are:

-Dual use as a helmet mounted monocular and weapons mounted scope.
-Warranty and customer service is important
-I don't care about video recording
-Prefer 60hz
-Overall image quality is very important

My use is hunting and I will need to be able to detect out to 600 yards.

I'm looking for opinions on the Nox 35 and the IR patrol M300W. Take in mind, I have not looked through either in person and I'm basing all of my assumptions on video footage and other users experiences. The price between the two is comparable. Whatever. I really like the warranty on the Nox and I hear their customer support is fantastic. However, when I look at the few videos available, it looks like the IR patrol image is far and away better, to me.

Is there anybody who has a substantial amount of time behind these units that could share a little insight?

 

[SkyScrapin]

The Nox is like 3 generations better (if it's measurable) than the IR Patrol. You will can accomplish your goals with both the 18mm and 35mm with ease. Give me a call if you'd like to discuss in detail, but in my opinion, it's pretty clear who the winner is.

 

[PlinkIt]

I think you are comparing apples and oranges a little with the m300w vs the nox35...
The nox18 is a more direct competitor for the m300w.

If I was in your place I'd be deciding if I wanted the magnification or not... Then likely buying the whichever NOX unit fit my decision. (Personal choice would be the 18 for fov as a scanner)

I think long term most will end up with a dedicated scanner and a separate method of shooting... even if it's just a spotlight, or cheaper digital NV, or second thermal scope, or NV clip on... Personally I think being able to scan comfortably from a helmet is where the thermal shines, and the reason I'd get something with more fov first

 

[Killswitch Engage]

The Nox is like 3 generations better (if it's measurable) than the IR Patrol. You will can accomplish your goals with both the 18mm and 35mm with ease. Give me a call if you'd like to discuss in detail, but in my opinion, it's pretty clear who the winner is.

eh.... i wouldnt go that far. image is really no different between them. little smaller/lighter package on the nox. nicer power options on the nox. better dovetail on the patrol. tougher housing on the patrol.

 

[PlinkIt]

One more thing to consider is the joystick vs buttons...
Some folks really hate the joystick...
I don't mind the joystick on the 300, but I do prefer the buttons on my scopes.

 

[Evolution 9]

I used to own a REAP but when they refused to warranty cracked battery compartments (a known recoil related issue) I sold and went N-Vision.

Totally unacceptable to not warranty against defects.

N-Vision, meanwhile, was listening to Hide feedback regarding offering reticles with mil holds… and then offering those reticles as a free software upgrade to existing owners.

which company should we all support?

 

[SkyScrapin]

eh.... i wouldnt go that far. image is really no different between them. little smaller/lighter package on the nox. nicer power options on the nox. better dovetail on the patrol. tougher housing on the patrol.

It would have been helpful if my comment was a bit more thorough.

Nox has an improved image (but to each his own). This is fairly subjective and we all know environmental condition dictates results.
Nox housing, though seemingly less rugged, is rock solid. I have to say that not a single one has broken to my knowledge, where as we have seen how Trij plays out with delrin parts being damaged through normal use. Gen2 housing fixed this issue.
Nox has reticles.
Nox is smaller, lighter, as you mention.
Nox easily works with rechargeable batts from the factory.

I'll take your word on the dovetail. Never helmet mounted anything Trij due to weight.

5 year vs 3 year warranty.

Both units can use remote power.

Joy stick is annoying, but that's preference. I used a Reap for eons and it served me well. My only complaint was the joystick but it was admittedly easy to teach new users how to operate.

My biggest gripe with Trij is their lack of innovation outside of the Reap Gen2 upgrades, despite them having several newer generations of software. I would really like to see them come out with some revisions to existing models with upgrades that compete with N-Vision. We shall see what they have coming.

In fairness, I have sent nearly every thermal back that I have ever owned for pixel refresh. Trijicon support was first class even outside of warranty periods. Can't speak to physical damage on my own accord.

N-Vision handled two warranty repairs in the same fashion with the same speed one would expect.

At the end of the day, both are functionally sound products with a proven track record. One has to decide if the slight savings for a used Patrol is worth giving up the added features for a Nox.

=======================

I'm interested to hear what the Nox owners complaints are. I hardly ever hear of any, but they must exist. They are still quite new, but N-Vision certainly isn't, and we have Max's ear for those that wish to vocalize it.

 

[jwramp]

In fairness, I have sent nearly every thermal back that I have ever owned for pixel refresh. Trijicon support was first class even outside of warranty periods. Can't speak to physical damage on my own accord.

Can you talk a little more about this? What signs were you seeing, what did the manufacturers say the cause was? Is this something you’d expect to happen to every device, or you’ve just been particularly unlucky? I’d assume you’ve had quite a few devices.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Can you talk a little more about this? What signs were you seeing, what did the manufacturers say the cause was? Is this something you’d expect to happen to every device, or you’ve just been particularly unlucky? I’d assume you’ve had quite a few devices.

Let me be very frank about Trijicon. They absolutely accepted every thermal (SkeetIRx, UTCxii, ReapIR Gen1) back without question. They never gave me a root cause or justification for a products limitations leading me to believe they weren't certain about how they would handle recoil, for example.

The UTCxii being a perfect storm of me being the brazen person that I am, slapping it on a SCAR17s and going to town. I killed pixels. They fixed it. They would not tell me what the UTCxii was rated for, but they were confident it would handle SCAR17 recoil. It didn't. They later followed up with a list of systems they had tested a UTCxii on, and it did not include a SCAR17. Never the less, they warrantied it. Keep in mind, this was not a housing issue, but a simple pixel refresh. Turn around was like 5 business days. Can't beat that.

The SkeetIRx developed a dead pixel for no apparent reason. It has never been weapons mounted, but I use it all the time. I can't explain why it happens, but inevitably it shows up in every thermal. This is why I harp on warranty.

Dead pixels happen. It's the nature of the beast. Some companies build in software to "mend" pixels to correct this, others do not. What would be absolutely golden is if a manufacturer would build in the capability to do a pixel refresh by the user via an app or cable. I don't know enough about the process to tell you if that's possible or not. One can wish.

In terms of thermals and warranty, we have seen far more CCP products with issues than any other brand. We stay away from these units for good reason, and we will always advise against them until further notice.

Simply put, buy American for peace of mind.

--------------------------------------------------------

We have seen 2 units (publicly posted, not our personal experience) get sent back to N-Vision for the bad coating on the germanium lens. This has been resolved for a long while now, and N-Vision already upgraded the coating and F stop on the newer products. The transparency, mind you, publicly, doesn't get much better.

We had another Halo-LR that had a focus issues out of the box. I can't speak to how the different carriers handle our packages, but we insure everything, and we offer a personal replacement with an off the shelf unit regardless of fault. The customer is never left high and dry. To that tune, the customer is either free to send it to N-Vision or we will handle it on our end. In this case, N-Vision provided a shipping label and it was turned around inside of 5 business days.

---------------------------------------------------------

Anything mechanical or electronic can and will have problem. Wether it be a Rolex, a camera, or a bicycle, it's the nature of the beast. Spend your money with the manufacturers that won't hang you out to dry, and will always do what's right.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Let me be very frank about Trijicon. They absolutely accepted every thermal (SkeetIRx, UTCxii, ReapIR Gen1) back without question. They never gave me a root cause or justification for a products limitations leading me to believe they weren't certain about how they would handle recoil, for example.

The UTCxii being a perfect storm of me being the brazen person that I am, slapping it on a SCAR17s and going to town. I killed pixels. They fixed it. They would not tell me what the UTCxii was rated for, but they were confident it would handle SCAR17 recoil. It didn't. They later followed up with a list of systems they had tested a UTCxii on, and it did not include a SCAR17. Never the less, they warrantied it. Keep in mind, this was not a housing issue, but a simple pixel refresh. Turn around was like 5 business days. Can't beat that.

The SkeetIRx developed a dead pixel for no apparent reason. It has never been weapons mounted, but I use it all the time. I can't explain why it happens, but inevitably it shows up in every thermal. This is why I harp on warranty.

Dead pixels happen. It's the nature of the beast. Some companies build in software to "mend" pixels to correct this, others do not. What would be absolutely golden is if a manufacturer would build in the capability to do a pixel refresh by the user via an app or cable. I don't know enough about the process to tell you if that's possible or not. One can wish.

In terms of thermals and warranty, we have seen far more CCP products with issues than any other brand. We stay away from these units for good reason, and we will always advise against them until further notice.

Simply put, buy American for peace of mind.

--------------------------------------------------------

We have seen 2 units (publicly posted, not our personal experience) get sent back to N-Vision for the bad coating on the germanium lens. This has been resolved for a long while now, and N-Vision already upgraded the coating and F stop on the newer products. The transparency, mind you, publicly, doesn't get much better.

We had another Halo-LR that had a focus issues out of the box. I can't speak to how the different carriers handle our packages, but we insure everything, and we offer a personal replacement with an off the shelf unit regardless of fault. The customer is never left high and dry. To that tune, the customer is either free to send it to N-Vision or we will handle it on our end. In this case, N-Vision provided a shipping label and it was turned around inside of 5 business days.

---------------------------------------------------------

Anything mechanical or electronic can and will have problem. Wether it be a Rolex, a camera, or a bicycle, it's the nature of the beast. Spend your money with the manufacturers that won't hang you out to dry, and will always do what's right.

As an end user who very much doesn't care about the details I think you're spot on. The fact that Max comes on the forums and answers questions/addresses issues with costumers directly shows an unusual level of transparency. I don't pretend to understand most of what he says but the fact he's willing to publicly stand behind his products was a major factor for me.