Inconsistency in O.A.L measurement - Tikka T3x .223

[quikcolin]

Someone help me please.

I have Tikka T3x Stainless Varmint in .223. I’m about to load my first cartridge (ever) and I’m trying to determine OAL. I have a Hornady OAL gauge, gauge cartridge, the Hornady bullet comparator, and a set of digital calipers off Amazon.

I’m measuring with a Hornady VMAX 55g bullet.

Everything is tight on the equipment, and I’m trying my hardest to duplicate the same pressure each time I measure. I’m failing miserably. Here are my 10 measurements.

1.) 1.8 385
2.) 1.8 385 (thought I was all good)
3.) 1.8 355
4.) 1.8 630
5.) 1.8 345
6.) 1.8 835
7.) 1.8 875
8.) 1.8 315
9.) 1.8 665
10.) 1.8 235

I’m about to loose it haha. What I’m the world??? How do I subtract .020 from this? Is it my calipers? It’s it impossible to duplicate the same pressure over and over? Should I have called it at the first 2 measurements that were the same?

Advise is appreciated.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

I find I get some variation using the hornady tool, but not near that bad. Do you notice some bullets sticking in the rifling when you try to back the tool out?

I think a lot of it is touch, I insert the bullet with the rod until there is the first hint of resistance, then lock the hornady tool and pop the bullet and tool out with a cleaning rod.

Alternatively, you could use a dremel to cut a slit in the neck of an old sized case, load the bullet long, and use the lands to seat it into the brass. Compare that to your hornady results.

And inevitably, someone posts this video, but I've never removed my firing pin to try it... Maybe next time.How to find your lands exactly.

 

[quikcolin]

I was very lightly pressing the plunger (while holding the body of the gauge tight so the cartridge was fully seated in the chamber the whole time) until it stopped. Then would tighten the plunger and slowly pull out....

I never had a bullet get stuck, the bullet and gauge came out without any issue. Maybe I’m being to light with my touch? The instructions refer to the pressure like “pulling the trigger”. 2-4lbs. I’m definitely not putting 2-4lbs of pressure!

I’m going to try again after I get my son to bed

 

[quikcolin]

Well I figured it out . Just a little more pressure. A trick is to watch the plunger. You can visibly see it stop. At that point I held a little pressure and locked the nut. Did 11 checks. 8 of them came back at 1.8940. The rest were about .005 high or low. So I’m going to set my die to 1.8920 (.020 less) and see how it goes

 

[Ryridesmotox]

Before you load 100 and end up having to single feed... have you checked to make sure they will fit in the magazine at that length? I don't own a tikka, just giving you a piece of advice I wish someone gave me lol... check the mag length also.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Make sure the case is fully inserted as well as don't be shy push the bullet into the lands.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

Befire you load 100 and end up having to single feed... have you checked to make sure they will fit in the magazine at that length? I don't own a tikka, just giving you a piece of advice I wish someone gave me lol... check the mag length also.

This. Load one and make sure everything functions, then go into mass production.
I loaded some 223 into the lands on my sako and I couldn't even get them to fit in a 223 ammo box, let alone the magazine.

Depending on length of bullet / COAL, you may want to check how much bearing surface is in the neck as well. I think most people use one calibre minimum in the neck as a rule of thumb.

 

[Juggerxxx]

I have never been able to get the Hornady tool to consistently work for me. Not as bad as your numbers but just not consistent numbers. I too have a Tikka 223 Varmint and it loves the 55v-max.

I use this method () to find the lands and it may take more time and effort but the result is consistent and one I can trust everyone.

 

[FishDr]

Someone should mention - if you use your above numbers, you are .002 from lands, NOT .020. Check decimal places. Digital calipers (and dials) do not read tremendously accurate to .001. That extra decimal place gives a false sense of accuracy.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I have never been able to get the Hornady tool to consistently work for me. Not as bad as your numbers but just not consistent numbers. I too have a Tikka 223 Varmint and it loves the 55v-max.

I use this method () to find the lands and it may take more time and effort but the result is consistent and one I can trust everyone.

The problem is the case and people "feeling for the lands". Push the case fully in. Push the bullet fully into the lands. I have a tight 244 Rem that I needed to neck tighten just a pinch to get the case inserted all the way. Then I have to tap the bullet rod a couple of times to get to the lands. This is jammed into the lands so it is a good .01 or .02 jammed into the lands, maybe more. @spife7980 can tell you more about that and other tricks with this tool.

 

[XLR308]

Getting a feel for using the Hornady tool is vastly different than having a good feel for using precision measuring equipment such as calipers and micrometers.
A cheap set of calipers especially the small 6" that are most popular have more flex and give in them than most expect and can give erratic readings if you are being to heavy handed with them.
I use a set of 12" mititoyo digital calipers and get very consistent reading with the Hornady comparator tools in all calibers I have.
If you are sure it isn't an issue like has allready been suggested of a tight freebore to the lands try using more of a finess approach with the calipers and see if that helps shrink the variation your getting.

 

[Steel head]

The problem is the case and people "feeling for the lands". Push the case fully in. Push the bullet fully into the lands. I have a tight 244 Rem that I needed to neck tighten just a pinch to get the case inserted all the way. Then I have to tap the bullet rod a couple of times to get to the lands. This is jammed into the lands so it is a good .01 or .02 jammed into the lands, maybe more. @spife7980 can tell you more about that and other tricks with this tool.

I have decent results with the Hornandy tool but it took me a while to get consistent.

 

[quikcolin]

Befire you load 100 and end up having to single feed... have you checked to make sure they will fit in the magazine at that length? I don't own a tikka, just giving you a piece of advice I wish someone gave me lol... check the mag length also.

Thank you so much for the reminder!!!! Thankfully it took me all night just to lube, resize, deprime, trim and debur 100 pc. of brass (I’ve never done this before so I was taking my time).

Today I will prime using the hand loader, drop powder (going to test 4 different loads of 5 rounds each 1st). Then seat the bullets.

 

[quikcolin]

Someone should mention - if you use your above numbers, you are .002 from lands, NOT .020. Check decimal places. Digital calipers (and dials) do not read tremendously accurate to .001. That extra decimal place gives a false sense of accuracy.

THANK YOU SO SO MUCH ??‍?

 

[morganlamprecht]

the hornady tool works extremely consistent IF, and only if, your barrel throat area is absolutely clean...if the barrel has been fired at all it gets harder and harder to feel what is lands vs carbon debris

when the barrel is completely clean, leave the push rod long with the bullet hanging way out of the case, and slowly insert it into the chamber...the bullet will hit the lands and it will force the push rod out...no need to apply force to the push rod, let gravity it do it, i usually tilt the rifle barrel down to help with this

once its in there, lock the rod down and remove it, then measure...when u tilt the rifle back if the bullet doesnt fall out on its own or drop out with a very light hand tap on the butt stock....your throat is not as clean as it needs to be to get the right measurements

we verified this on brand new cut barrels, its easier to do with a barrel not attached to the action...but the numbers across multiple barrels with the tool can read +/- .001 consistently

if the throat is dirty at all, you can feel drag and rubbing while you push the bullet into the lands with the rod and your bullet will usually come out with small scratches

it can be harder to get the carbon out than you might think with typical gun bore solvents

 

[spife7980]

The problem is the case and people "feeling for the lands". Push the case fully in. Push the bullet fully into the lands. I have a tight 244 Rem that I needed to neck tighten just a pinch to get the case inserted all the way. Then I have to tap the bullet rod a couple of times to get to the lands. This is jammed into the lands so it is a good .01 or .02 jammed into the lands, maybe more. @spife7980 can tell you more about that and other tricks with this tool.

I have decent results with the Hornandy tool but it took me a while to get consistent.

View attachment 7116217

I dont use the hornady tool and the wheeler video has been posted already so Im not gonna be much help lol

 

[Juggerxxx]

I dont use the hornady tool and the wheeler video has been posted already so Im not gonna be much help lol

Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Just kidding I had to do that.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

So, once you have a COAL fully jammed into the lands just how far into the lands is that? .01, .02, .03...?

 

[just browsing]

So, once you have a COAL fully jammed into the lands just how far into the lands is that? .01, .02, .03...?

Jammed is jammed. You can try to quantify it based on your lands measurement outlined above vs. the length you’re loading to, but 9/10 times the bullet will just get pushed further into the case the harder you try to shove it in there.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Let me rephrase the question...

So, once you have a COAL fully jammed into the lands just how far into the lands is that ogive? .01, .02, .03...?

Hint...Answer is related to the difference between using the Wheeler method and the Hornady tool to jam the bullet and then measuring.