Considering buying reloading equip for ar15. Have read lots about new tools etc for loading. I reloaded for 7mag years ago with redding ultramag. Didn't do much more than experiment with bullets and varying OAL. Now I want to see what I can get out of my ar in accuracy. However, since need to stay within mag length and being a semi auto I am having doubts as to whether it is worth buying equip since not sure can improve accuracy enough over factory match ammo to do this? Can anyone give me advice on buying equip? And also what differences have to be left out of accuracy loading since doing this for ar? Thanks for info.
- Thread starter bbowles
- Start date
Factory match ammo is at least a buck a round. You can reload something like 77g SMK's for around 35c a piece not counting brass cost.
THAT is the biggest reason to reload.
Whether you think you can or cant get any better accuracy than factory IMO doesnt play into the decision. My guess is you CAN get a little better accuracy while saving money.
I like Forster Ultra dies with the sliding sleeve. Redding also makes dies like this and I think a few other places.
THAT is the biggest reason to reload.
Whether you think you can or cant get any better accuracy than factory IMO doesnt play into the decision. My guess is you CAN get a little better accuracy while saving money.
I like Forster Ultra dies with the sliding sleeve. Redding also makes dies like this and I think a few other places.
Not saying I can't save money. I agree that is a motivation for lots. But I only want to reload for accuracy improvement and entertainment value. I would be very disappointed to buy equip and not get significant accuracy improvement. That is the fun to me. To see fruits of experimental loads. Otherwise, I will be content with 1.25 MOA from factory match. Thanks for guidance.
Well, there will all way be a weak link. Really not sure what is yours......
Without knowing your current AR15 setup, but assuming you have a good free floated barrel and match trigger I would be extremely unhappy with 1.25 moa with factory match ammo.
If you barrel is not free floated and are using the standards FCG, I would start with those aspects before handloading.
Without knowing your current AR15 setup, but assuming you have a good free floated barrel and match trigger I would be extremely unhappy with 1.25 moa with factory match ammo.
If you barrel is not free floated and are using the standards FCG, I would start with those aspects before handloading.
I have DD M4 12" handguard rail which is supposedly free floated. I installed a geissele SSA-E trigger. Now trying to decide if hand loading will take this rifle from 1.25 moa to sub moa or will I need to change barrels. Really enjoy AR's but if too hard to reload more accurate ammo may go back to bolt guns. Is it worth it to hand load for AR? Thanks again for info.
Definitely a high quality barrel, but designed more for reliability and longevity than accuracy. That said, I have a Armalite 20" chrome-lined Hbar with 1/9 twist that shoots .75 moa all day with 75 gr. BHA blue box.
At this point I would opt for reloading gear as accuracy should only get better and help with your ROI.
Ok. Thanks. I read "reloading 101 & 201" by doc76251 and learned lots. Will be loading for mid & long range hunting & targets AR15 now and later 6mm &/or 7mm bolt guns. Prob not competing. I have my list of equipment I am thinking about purchasing but wanted some guidance. I don't mind spending extra money on equip if it does things better at good value just like doc says. This is most of my list: redding big boss 1 or 2 press or rockchucker or lee classic cast and even looked at Harrell turret as zediker says in his book. (I know this is wide range). RCBS Chargemaster 1500 combo, midsouth tumbler/separator (berry I think), Wilson or gracey trimmer, Sinclair decapping die, Sinclair pocket uniformer kit, Sinclair gen 2 flash hole debur, Sinclair seating depth gauge, Sinclair comparator, Sinclair comparator/bump gauge body, Forster FL and ultra micro seater dies, RCBS hand primer.
Not sure if Stoney Point (hornady) will do as good with their measuring equip as Sinclair stuff? I have a RCBS 505 and calipers.
Thanks for input on specific tools for my usage. Maybe I don't even need some of this for AR? I want to make as accurate ammo as possible WITHOUT neck turning and annealing cases. Will just pitch cases if they need this. Sorry for the long post!
Not sure if Stoney Point (hornady) will do as good with their measuring equip as Sinclair stuff? I have a RCBS 505 and calipers.
Thanks for input on specific tools for my usage. Maybe I don't even need some of this for AR? I want to make as accurate ammo as possible WITHOUT neck turning and annealing cases. Will just pitch cases if they need this. Sorry for the long post!
fill out your profile. may be some one near you to help
Hi Bowles,
You have a very nice list of reloading tools there. I don't have a powder dispenser or a neck-size / bump gage in my kit and would like to. In answer to your question of a improving accuracy in your rifle by hand loading your own stuff I give a Resounding YES!
The ammo I make by closely watching my charge weights, using IMR 8208-XBR and 69 g. Nosler Custom Comp bullets with Tula 556M primers is shooting Better than Black Hills 77 SMK Match ammo. I've tested them side by side in my rifle and dismayed / pissed-off my "big spending" buddy with the stuff I make for $0.35-$0.40 per round. My rifle is a home built with a very good Shilen Ratchet barrel, billet lower, floated hand guard, Viltor upper, NiB BCG, Timney 3 lb. and a PRS stock. It wasn't cheap to build but the damn thing Does shoot.
If I speed things up a bit and make the ammo on my Hornady LNL Progressive press and make sure the drops are staying within .1 or .2 grain of that same 8208XBR target charge it will shoot As Good as the $50+ per box Black Hills stuff.
Anything less than the expensive factory made rifle ammo will almost always behave like crap compared to your hand rolled stuff. I actually thought there were problems with my scope mount or barrel nut when I shot a box of plane-Jane 55 fmj Remington stuff. It was all over at about 2-3 inches, but put in a mag. of my stuff and went right back to under an inch in the next 10 rounds!
When you really sweat the details and dimensions you can even show-up the FGMM (the factory Gold Standard) for accuracy and consistently...because the ammo you are making is TUNED to YOUR barrel's Harmonics...which the factories can Never hope to do.
I have become as entertained by making sweet ammunition as I am of shooting it. Past weekend I shot a 4 round 0.148 MOA and three more (4 shot) 0.240 MOA groups out of my bone stock Savage Varmint using my own shells as well. Gotta Love the satisfaction of freaking out your friends with how good your Home-Grown ammo. is.
If you have the desire and patience to absolutely Maximize the potential of (ANY) your gun...then come on in the water's great!
You have a very nice list of reloading tools there. I don't have a powder dispenser or a neck-size / bump gage in my kit and would like to. In answer to your question of a improving accuracy in your rifle by hand loading your own stuff I give a Resounding YES!
The ammo I make by closely watching my charge weights, using IMR 8208-XBR and 69 g. Nosler Custom Comp bullets with Tula 556M primers is shooting Better than Black Hills 77 SMK Match ammo. I've tested them side by side in my rifle and dismayed / pissed-off my "big spending" buddy with the stuff I make for $0.35-$0.40 per round. My rifle is a home built with a very good Shilen Ratchet barrel, billet lower, floated hand guard, Viltor upper, NiB BCG, Timney 3 lb. and a PRS stock. It wasn't cheap to build but the damn thing Does shoot.
If I speed things up a bit and make the ammo on my Hornady LNL Progressive press and make sure the drops are staying within .1 or .2 grain of that same 8208XBR target charge it will shoot As Good as the $50+ per box Black Hills stuff.
Anything less than the expensive factory made rifle ammo will almost always behave like crap compared to your hand rolled stuff. I actually thought there were problems with my scope mount or barrel nut when I shot a box of plane-Jane 55 fmj Remington stuff. It was all over at about 2-3 inches, but put in a mag. of my stuff and went right back to under an inch in the next 10 rounds!
When you really sweat the details and dimensions you can even show-up the FGMM (the factory Gold Standard) for accuracy and consistently...because the ammo you are making is TUNED to YOUR barrel's Harmonics...which the factories can Never hope to do.
I have become as entertained by making sweet ammunition as I am of shooting it. Past weekend I shot a 4 round 0.148 MOA and three more (4 shot) 0.240 MOA groups out of my bone stock Savage Varmint using my own shells as well. Gotta Love the satisfaction of freaking out your friends with how good your Home-Grown ammo. is.
If you have the desire and patience to absolutely Maximize the potential of (ANY) your gun...then come on in the water's great!
Hello Again bbowles,
If you live within an hour or so of Palm Beach, FL I'll be happy to show you the basics (and some more precision things) that you will be getting into on my Bench. The DIES that you have picked are FANTASTIC and will make VERY Straight ammo.
ALSO...particularly with any AR / Semi-Auto gun...Get a WILSON Case Gage in .223. Without one of these (or like) you won't be able to properly set your shoulder back to achieve the correct Head-Space when you either BUMP or Full-Length Size. It is a MUST have for setting up the press (as well as checking output every so often). Too SHORT a headspace will cause problems with the case or Misfires during firing and too LONG a headspace can Cause DANGEROUS Pressure Spikes and...prevent the gun from going into battery reliably...
They are super easy to use and give you a Mini-Max Range where your cartridge needs to sit in Depth of the Headstamp. It's just an exact copy of the chamber with the ability to scrutinize how your casing will sit when in battery.
Have at it or send me a PM
Steve
If you live within an hour or so of Palm Beach, FL I'll be happy to show you the basics (and some more precision things) that you will be getting into on my Bench. The DIES that you have picked are FANTASTIC and will make VERY Straight ammo.
ALSO...particularly with any AR / Semi-Auto gun...Get a WILSON Case Gage in .223. Without one of these (or like) you won't be able to properly set your shoulder back to achieve the correct Head-Space when you either BUMP or Full-Length Size. It is a MUST have for setting up the press (as well as checking output every so often). Too SHORT a headspace will cause problems with the case or Misfires during firing and too LONG a headspace can Cause DANGEROUS Pressure Spikes and...prevent the gun from going into battery reliably...
They are super easy to use and give you a Mini-Max Range where your cartridge needs to sit in Depth of the Headstamp. It's just an exact copy of the chamber with the ability to scrutinize how your casing will sit when in battery.
Have at it or send me a PM
Steve
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I have listed the reloading equip I am ordering to initially load for 223 ar. In future, I would like to buy a high end precision bolt gun for long range. I would like to hear recommendations of where and who to purchase from and also what additional reloading equipment would need purchased other than obvious dies, caliber inserts for comparator/bump guage body, etc. Thanks for guidance. Wish I had someone to mentor me getting into the long range game.
Read this thread. Not only will it give you an idea on the equipment needed, but what i do to reload for my ar rifles
http://www.snipershide.com/[email protected]
http://www.snipershide.com/[email protected]
M
milo 2.0
Guest
I hate to give a guy advice about how to spend one's money, we're all different. But you mention an AR, if just one I'd buy cases of ammo and shoot it first to get a brass supply. Price seems to be coming down on it. if you price components right now, I'd have to say you're up over 400.00 a 1000. I'm sure someone will set me straight on it, and are you guaranteed you'll get the components you want??
Just wait a year or two and pricing may get back to normal, along with the reloading gear and components. Cabela's has XM193 ball on sale for 8.49 per 20, this comes out to $424.50 per !K, and I know you can do better elsewhere.
I've shot some xm193, it has no issues making the journey to 500 yards, wavers at 600 for me, but not sure where you are taking this.
Just wait a year or two and pricing may get back to normal, along with the reloading gear and components. Cabela's has XM193 ball on sale for 8.49 per 20, this comes out to $424.50 per !K, and I know you can do better elsewhere.
I've shot some xm193, it has no issues making the journey to 500 yards, wavers at 600 for me, but not sure where you are taking this.
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