Comparing a Rem 700 action to an action made by someone like Stiller, Defiance etc... Is there a huge difference in precision shooting, maintenance, rigidity etc..? I want to build a custom rifle from the ground up and being a lefty it's pretty much what I have to do in order to get exactly what I want. I now there's differences in barrels and stocks but does a custom action completely outshine an off the shelf Remmy or even a Savage? Stiller has an amazing group buy for $750+ on an action. But I can also buy a Rem 700 Varmint for about $770 then sell the stock and barrel and come out paying about $500. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have the Stiller but if there really isn't a difference then is it just moreso the look and finish of a custom action?
Is an action an action or is there a difference?
- Thread starter Ultraman550
- Start date
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
You are still going to pay 250.00 or more to true that Remmy, why waste your
time and money.
You are still going to pay 250.00 or more to true that Remmy, why waste your
time and money.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
Big difference. Custom actions are machined way better than 700's being cut one after the other. I wish I had the loot when I built mine, but a 700 is all I needed. If you can afford it, do it.
Big difference. Custom actions are machined way better than 700's being cut one after the other. I wish I had the loot when I built mine, but a 700 is all I needed. If you can afford it, do it.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
Jump on one of those Stiller's. You will not regret going with a custom, especially at that price.
Jump on one of those Stiller's. You will not regret going with a custom, especially at that price.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
The way I look at it is I can buy a 10 rem 700's and 10 say surgeons and the surgeons will be much more consistent from action to actions than the remington. You can choose to have your remmy trued and all but if you want one ready to go No truing bolt. no bedding rail, or anything else then I say go custom. I have 4 custom rifles 2 stock R700, 2 savages, and 2 winchesters. All pretty nice rifles with the customs being real nice to me. Both my savages shoot real good as well as the remmy's but when I'm behind my custom everything feels better and smoother. I feel more solid and confident in them. I bought a M700 SPS tactical a few months ago and it shoots pretty good. But I'm sending it off to be put in the Manners T5A and spiced up a little bit. I am curios to see how it will feel after all is done to it. To me a Surgeon in a McMillian or Manners is hard to beat. I just wanna get close with this one. But to 308 savage seems to be my most accurate rifle. Is it my go to rifle. NO. But all my rifles have been through their own load development and they all are very good shooters but my very first savage has been 1/4 MOA of of a bench every time I shoot it for groups and all out to 600 yds. It just doesn't feel as good to me. It has out grouped my Benchrest rifles though. Kindof pisses me off sometimes. It was my learning rifle. Tom Sarver threw a Nightforce on it zero'd it and started banging steel at 1000yds with it. Grouping very good with Black Hills in it. Since I have gotten into realoading I have made her do better. Shot it in a 600 yd BR match in factory class and shot a 49 out of 50 ..3 out of the 4 times. It's in a cheap Houge stock too. MY other savage doesn't shoot as good to me though. 1 MOA is about as good as I have gotten with it. What I'm saying I guess is your custom stick is kindof garanteed a little more to be ready to go. Factory is it might be good enough or send it off to be "good enough" .Good luck
The way I look at it is I can buy a 10 rem 700's and 10 say surgeons and the surgeons will be much more consistent from action to actions than the remington. You can choose to have your remmy trued and all but if you want one ready to go No truing bolt. no bedding rail, or anything else then I say go custom. I have 4 custom rifles 2 stock R700, 2 savages, and 2 winchesters. All pretty nice rifles with the customs being real nice to me. Both my savages shoot real good as well as the remmy's but when I'm behind my custom everything feels better and smoother. I feel more solid and confident in them. I bought a M700 SPS tactical a few months ago and it shoots pretty good. But I'm sending it off to be put in the Manners T5A and spiced up a little bit. I am curios to see how it will feel after all is done to it. To me a Surgeon in a McMillian or Manners is hard to beat. I just wanna get close with this one. But to 308 savage seems to be my most accurate rifle. Is it my go to rifle. NO. But all my rifles have been through their own load development and they all are very good shooters but my very first savage has been 1/4 MOA of of a bench every time I shoot it for groups and all out to 600 yds. It just doesn't feel as good to me. It has out grouped my Benchrest rifles though. Kindof pisses me off sometimes. It was my learning rifle. Tom Sarver threw a Nightforce on it zero'd it and started banging steel at 1000yds with it. Grouping very good with Black Hills in it. Since I have gotten into realoading I have made her do better. Shot it in a 600 yd BR match in factory class and shot a 49 out of 50 ..3 out of the 4 times. It's in a cheap Houge stock too. MY other savage doesn't shoot as good to me though. 1 MOA is about as good as I have gotten with it. What I'm saying I guess is your custom stick is kindof garanteed a little more to be ready to go. Factory is it might be good enough or send it off to be "good enough" .Good luck
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
The tolerances are tighter on custom actions plus as others have posted they are true. Which brand? Now that just depends on what preferences you have and which meet your needs. I can tell you I have actions from the different makers and I personally think the stiller is a great action. I would suggest trying to look/ handle the different ones to see what you like.
The tolerances are tighter on custom actions plus as others have posted they are true. Which brand? Now that just depends on what preferences you have and which meet your needs. I can tell you I have actions from the different makers and I personally think the stiller is a great action. I would suggest trying to look/ handle the different ones to see what you like.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
If your going to buy a factory rifle only to sell the parts and come out with just the action and still have 500 into it your going backwards from the start. You can find a used Remmy pretty often for sale in the 350-400 range.
As you say your wanting to build an accurate rifle so you will most certainly be having the above action trued costing (Approx) 250...so now you have almost the same into it as the Stiller you noted above but the Stiller will come with alot of options, Fluted Bolt, Extractor, Rail, Lug, Side Bolt Release and Trued from the start.
If you at some point decide to sell the rifle the Stiller will bring a better price then the Remmy no matter what was done to the Remmy.
My opinion on a Stiller and a Remmy that has been trued correctly accuracy wise you will not be able to tell any accuracy difference.
If your going to buy a factory rifle only to sell the parts and come out with just the action and still have 500 into it your going backwards from the start. You can find a used Remmy pretty often for sale in the 350-400 range.
As you say your wanting to build an accurate rifle so you will most certainly be having the above action trued costing (Approx) 250...so now you have almost the same into it as the Stiller you noted above but the Stiller will come with alot of options, Fluted Bolt, Extractor, Rail, Lug, Side Bolt Release and Trued from the start.
If you at some point decide to sell the rifle the Stiller will bring a better price then the Remmy no matter what was done to the Remmy.
My opinion on a Stiller and a Remmy that has been trued correctly accuracy wise you will not be able to tell any accuracy difference.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
Donor Remmy action - $400
Gunsmith getting it squared up - $250
Scope base - $100
Recoil lug - $ 35
Total - $785
Stiller action/20moa base/recoil lug from group buy $810
$25 difference to get in on the group buy.
Donor Remmy action - $400
Gunsmith getting it squared up - $250
Scope base - $100
Recoil lug - $ 35
Total - $785
Stiller action/20moa base/recoil lug from group buy $810
$25 difference to get in on the group buy.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
Ultra, I have a slightly different opinion, I like many others would love to be able spend a 1000 or more on a custom action, but I go a different route. The last 3 Rem 700's short actions I bought were used but in excellent condition, average price $350. I sell the stock, barrel and trigger and I have a nice action for $150-175. I don't have my smith true it up, I have a quality barrel installed with a good trigger and good stock. All of a sudden you are looking at some real savings, more money for good glass, reloading supplies, etc. As for accuracy, well that's why I use a good smith, never had a problem with the rifles, they all shoot at least 1/2 moa. I do try to be on the lookout for the early actions though, IMHO I think they are a tad better quality.
Ultra, I have a slightly different opinion, I like many others would love to be able spend a 1000 or more on a custom action, but I go a different route. The last 3 Rem 700's short actions I bought were used but in excellent condition, average price $350. I sell the stock, barrel and trigger and I have a nice action for $150-175. I don't have my smith true it up, I have a quality barrel installed with a good trigger and good stock. All of a sudden you are looking at some real savings, more money for good glass, reloading supplies, etc. As for accuracy, well that's why I use a good smith, never had a problem with the rifles, they all shoot at least 1/2 moa. I do try to be on the lookout for the early actions though, IMHO I think they are a tad better quality.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
Buy the group buy Stiller, they are done right in the first place so they do not need trueing. I think it will wash at best with a remington that then has to be trued. Not to mention the aggravation of selling parts and waiting for a smith to true the remmy.
But to answer your question, a trued remington will shoot with the best of them, but so will a savage, etc...
If something works, it works.
Buy the group buy Stiller, they are done right in the first place so they do not need trueing. I think it will wash at best with a remington that then has to be trued. Not to mention the aggravation of selling parts and waiting for a smith to true the remmy.
But to answer your question, a trued remington will shoot with the best of them, but so will a savage, etc...
If something works, it works.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pyplynr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Donor Remmy action - $400
Gunsmith getting it squared up - $250
Scope base - $100
Recoil lug - $ 35
Total - $785
Stiller action/20moa base/recoil lug from group buy $810
$25 difference to get in on the group buy. </div></div>
Also add bolt knob and bolt flute to the Remy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pyplynr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Donor Remmy action - $400
Gunsmith getting it squared up - $250
Scope base - $100
Recoil lug - $ 35
Total - $785
Stiller action/20moa base/recoil lug from group buy $810
$25 difference to get in on the group buy. </div></div>
Also add bolt knob and bolt flute to the Remy.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
An action is not an action as everyone mentioned. IMO accuracy starts with the barrel, but it takes two to tango. You don't need a custom action to achieve good accuracy. That being said it doesn't hurt. Really just depends on your budget, preference, etc. The 700 is a great action to start out on because if you do feel that you need/want those custom features you can always send it to the smith and let him work on it. The trade off is what you'll pay in gunsmithing for that remington 700 is equal to or more than a custom usually, by the time it's all said and done. It's a preference. I myself love custom actions, don't own one but i will. I can't shoot the difference between the too, i just simply would like to have one.
An action is not an action as everyone mentioned. IMO accuracy starts with the barrel, but it takes two to tango. You don't need a custom action to achieve good accuracy. That being said it doesn't hurt. Really just depends on your budget, preference, etc. The 700 is a great action to start out on because if you do feel that you need/want those custom features you can always send it to the smith and let him work on it. The trade off is what you'll pay in gunsmithing for that remington 700 is equal to or more than a custom usually, by the time it's all said and done. It's a preference. I myself love custom actions, don't own one but i will. I can't shoot the difference between the too, i just simply would like to have one.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The_Surgeon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pyplynr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Donor Remmy action - $400
Gunsmith getting it squared up - $250
Scope base - $100
Recoil lug - $ 35
Total - $785
Stiller action/20moa base/recoil lug from group buy $810
$25 difference to get in on the group buy. </div></div>
I'll Take this a bit further. You still have to buy bottom metal. Lets say you pick your bottom metal up from Surgeon or Badger. Their bottom metal will cost you around $360. The $360 for the bottom metal combined with the aprox $785 and you have a total of $1145.
Surgeon 591R Action W/Surgeon Bottom Metal, integrated 20 MOA base, integrated recoil lug, is : $1295
A difference of : $150
In the overall scheme of things $150 isn't much.
I will add that if you start adding extras to your truing of your donor action, the cost will be well above $250. I have seen them go up to $400 - $500 including labor. With that in mind, you are spending the same amount (+/-) a few dollars than if you were to buy a Surgeon.
</div></div>
Maybe I'm missing something but where can you get a Surgeon 591 with surgeon bottom metal for $1295?I think with bottom metal it would be around $1655
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The_Surgeon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pyplynr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Donor Remmy action - $400
Gunsmith getting it squared up - $250
Scope base - $100
Recoil lug - $ 35
Total - $785
Stiller action/20moa base/recoil lug from group buy $810
$25 difference to get in on the group buy. </div></div>
I'll Take this a bit further. You still have to buy bottom metal. Lets say you pick your bottom metal up from Surgeon or Badger. Their bottom metal will cost you around $360. The $360 for the bottom metal combined with the aprox $785 and you have a total of $1145.
Surgeon 591R Action W/Surgeon Bottom Metal, integrated 20 MOA base, integrated recoil lug, is : $1295
A difference of : $150
In the overall scheme of things $150 isn't much.
I will add that if you start adding extras to your truing of your donor action, the cost will be well above $250. I have seen them go up to $400 - $500 including labor. With that in mind, you are spending the same amount (+/-) a few dollars than if you were to buy a Surgeon.
</div></div>
Maybe I'm missing something but where can you get a Surgeon 591 with surgeon bottom metal for $1295?I think with bottom metal it would be around $1655
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
My mistake for providing mis leading information. I tried to go in and correct it but for some reason the post is gone. I apologize to the original poster and thank you to Berger King for calling me out on this.
I was thinking of the 1581/R .
Again my apologies...
My mistake for providing mis leading information. I tried to go in and correct it but for some reason the post is gone. I apologize to the original poster and thank you to Berger King for calling me out on this.
I was thinking of the 1581/R .
Again my apologies...
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
Surgeon I was not trying to call you out. I sincerely hope that you did not take it that way and if you did I apologize.
Surgeon I was not trying to call you out. I sincerely hope that you did not take it that way and if you did I apologize.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
Jump in on the group buy. If you ever hold a stiller action in your hands you can feel the difference. They are just built so much better.
The question is will the shooter ever be able to see the accuracy difference between the two actions?
Jump in on the group buy. If you ever hold a stiller action in your hands you can feel the difference. They are just built so much better.
The question is will the shooter ever be able to see the accuracy difference between the two actions?
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
No Berger I did not take it that way at all. I guess I should have said it different. I am just glad you caught it early and asked about it. I then went back in and investigated my post and found that I was wrong. I was thinking of the 1581/R.
But no need for you to apologize, it's me who should have researched my information better. That is one of my biggest things about posting, that is providing mis leading information. I try to be very careful about what I post. Looks like this time I had my head some where else.
Its all good. Take care Berger
Your Friend,
Brian AKA Surgeon
No Berger I did not take it that way at all. I guess I should have said it different. I am just glad you caught it early and asked about it. I then went back in and investigated my post and found that I was wrong. I was thinking of the 1581/R.
But no need for you to apologize, it's me who should have researched my information better. That is one of my biggest things about posting, that is providing mis leading information. I try to be very careful about what I post. Looks like this time I had my head some where else.
Its all good. Take care Berger
Your Friend,
Brian AKA Surgeon
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
I would take that Stiller for the group buy price over a factory action. I went with a Surgeon several months ago because I liked the built-in rail and the integral lug (more bearing surface for the barrel threads as well).
I would take that Stiller for the group buy price over a factory action. I went with a Surgeon several months ago because I liked the built-in rail and the integral lug (more bearing surface for the barrel threads as well).
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
Similar question was asked not long ago and an interesting thread followed. Worth checking as it adds to many of the points already raised:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3026718&page=all
Similar question was asked not long ago and an interesting thread followed. Worth checking as it adds to many of the points already raised:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3026718&page=all
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
Ahh, great information fellas thank you. I guess it's common sense that performance wise the custom is better than off the shelf. I just didn't know how much different it was. Being a novice to the long distance game I definitely wouldn't be able to tell the difference but I also want a great rifle I can grow into. My rifle will be better than me for quite some time so there is much to think about.
Lonely_Wolf, thanks for the link as well. A lot of the insight I have gotten from you fellas makes perfect sense.
Being a novice at this, can you guys shed some wisdom on how you get around your wives in the "spending" department? Lol, ANY AND ALL help is appreciated.
Ahh, great information fellas thank you. I guess it's common sense that performance wise the custom is better than off the shelf. I just didn't know how much different it was. Being a novice to the long distance game I definitely wouldn't be able to tell the difference but I also want a great rifle I can grow into. My rifle will be better than me for quite some time so there is much to think about.
Lonely_Wolf, thanks for the link as well. A lot of the insight I have gotten from you fellas makes perfect sense.
Being a novice at this, can you guys shed some wisdom on how you get around your wives in the "spending" department? Lol, ANY AND ALL help is appreciated.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
Once I decided all I wanted was custom, I sold all factory rifles I own and started saving. Rifles are not a topic of discussion in my home.
Once I decided all I wanted was custom, I sold all factory rifles I own and started saving. Rifles are not a topic of discussion in my home.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
That's sorta like asking what car do you drive. As you can tell, the crowd here appreciates quality. And understand real value.
Meanwhile.....is one action enough for me in the 2012 GB?
That's sorta like asking what car do you drive. As you can tell, the crowd here appreciates quality. And understand real value.
Meanwhile.....is one action enough for me in the 2012 GB?
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Explorer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Meanwhile.....is one action enough for me in the 2012 GB? </div></div>
I know what you mean, I can't imagine these actions ever costing so little again. The deal is very good. I might "need" another also.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Explorer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Meanwhile.....is one action enough for me in the 2012 GB? </div></div>
I know what you mean, I can't imagine these actions ever costing so little again. The deal is very good. I might "need" another also.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sledge Hammer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rifles are not a topic of discussion in my home. </div></div>
As it should be. The only "discussion" going on should be which one to buy next.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sledge Hammer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rifles are not a topic of discussion in my home. </div></div>
As it should be. The only "discussion" going on should be which one to buy next.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
I have several actions, Remington, Surgeon, and Stiller. While the customs have other features over the Remington. I do not find a Surgeon or Stiller more accurate. I've also never had a Remington break or fail me either and I'm pretty rough on my guns. I carry a Remington 700 at work ever day, it's never broke on me either. All the other guys that I work with that also have Remington 700's, theirs have also not broke either.
So to each his own... my just opinion.
I have several actions, Remington, Surgeon, and Stiller. While the customs have other features over the Remington. I do not find a Surgeon or Stiller more accurate. I've also never had a Remington break or fail me either and I'm pretty rough on my guns. I carry a Remington 700 at work ever day, it's never broke on me either. All the other guys that I work with that also have Remington 700's, theirs have also not broke either.
So to each his own... my just opinion.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
If starting from ground zero with no receiver in hand, I'd opt for a custom. While I'd typically swing a Defiance or Surgeon, the Stiller in the group buy would be hard to look away from if a guy needed one or a few
The 700's can be made to shoot extremely well and if you have one in hand, run it. I wouldn't rush out and purchase a 700 though as a donor with all the work required to make it close to what you'd get with a custom. As far as accuracy goes, all will perform well beyond your expectations, even a trued 700.
If starting from ground zero with no receiver in hand, I'd opt for a custom. While I'd typically swing a Defiance or Surgeon, the Stiller in the group buy would be hard to look away from if a guy needed one or a few
The 700's can be made to shoot extremely well and if you have one in hand, run it. I wouldn't rush out and purchase a 700 though as a donor with all the work required to make it close to what you'd get with a custom. As far as accuracy goes, all will perform well beyond your expectations, even a trued 700.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
I've had a few Remingtons and Savages over the past few year searching for something. I found what I was looking for in a custom action.
With a factory actions I've noticed that there is bolt "wobble" and that bugged the crap out of me. I'd but a good barrel on it and the rifle would shoot the best I could but the bolt still wasn't that smooth and "wobbled". Go with a custom and never look back.
I've had a few Remingtons and Savages over the past few year searching for something. I found what I was looking for in a custom action.
With a factory actions I've noticed that there is bolt "wobble" and that bugged the crap out of me. I'd but a good barrel on it and the rifle would shoot the best I could but the bolt still wasn't that smooth and "wobbled". Go with a custom and never look back.
Re: Is an action an action or is there a difference?
When I was thinking about this 6 months ago I decided to go custom, and ordered a Defiance. It's freaking art.
On the other hand, I stumbled onto someone selling trued 700 actions for under $500 and SS for +$50. I sent him money today. If I had seen that 6 months ago I'd probably not have purchased the Defiance. Man, did I mention that it's facking beautiful
When I was thinking about this 6 months ago I decided to go custom, and ordered a Defiance. It's freaking art.
On the other hand, I stumbled onto someone selling trued 700 actions for under $500 and SS for +$50. I sent him money today. If I had seen that 6 months ago I'd probably not have purchased the Defiance. Man, did I mention that it's facking beautiful
