Is it time for me to step up to the AR-10?

[shaman]

I am in want of a brush gun (100-150 yards in the trees) for deer and pigs, and a long range shooter (1K range down the road at Best of the West). My thoughts have been on a 7.62x39 upper and a 6.5 Grendel upper. But, after checking the price of .243 ammo, I see it is the same price as decent 6.5G ammo. .308 is obviously more than 7.62x39 on the plinking level, but is a wash at the “hunting” level. And, looking at Bud’s Gun Shop, a DPMS LR-XXX new is about the same price as a new or used Alexander Arms Grendel rifle.

Looking at the brush gun side, a basic 16-18” 308 is only a few hundred more than a 7.62x39 upper. AR-10 mags are more than AR-15 mags, but a .308 and .243 would use the same mags, 6.5 Grendel and 7.62x39 use different mags, so overall price would be a wash. I don't reload, and it's not in the cards for the span of these purchases, so please don't put it into the equation.

All of that to ask a few questions.

1. At 100-150 yards, will a .308 be better (weight, killing power, recoil, etc) than a 7.62x39? I understand that the x39 is inferior to the x51, but I wonder if it is really “worth it” at carbine ranges.

2. With the statements above, should I make the leap up to the .308 and .243/260 in AR-10, or stay with 7.62x39 and 6.5G in AR-15? I am on enough forums that I could probably get some deals found even in this time of drought. The other choice would be bolt gun plus 7.62x39.

 

[Captain Kirk]

Re: Is it time for me to step up to the AR-10?

Oh man you are all over the place

The 308 trumps the 7.62x39 at any range, but the x39 has its place and ammo is still fairly cheap, but nothing match grade by any standards. You can run the 308 in a short barreled configuration such as 18-20" with good performance. You also mentioned the 243 which requires a much longer barrel to benifit from it, it is a very capable round when you can get the velocity out of it, the 243 is ALL about velocity.

Forget about the 7.62x39 if you plan on anything past 400-500 yards, its rainbow-like trajectory and poor long range performance will limit its capability. With that said, you are talking about a AR15 platform VS a AR10 based platform, two different animals. Mag costs are minimal, it all comes down to what you need, if you need to get to 1K you can do it with the 308.

Kirk R

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Is it time for me to step up to the AR-10?

7.62x39 ARs are problematic. Furthermore, at 100-150 yards, 5.56 will kill deer and pigs just fine. The idea that "bigger" in diameter is a fallacy. Hell, 6.5 Grendel would be adequate for both roles, but it is logistically behind the other rounds.

I'd wager to say your best bet would probably be a 5.56 AR or 7.62x39 AK AND a bolt action in your flavor. If that doesn't suit your wants list, why not consider a .308 for both roles? It'll go to 1000 just fine.

 

[wfjames22]

Re: Is it time for me to step up to the AR-10?

If you truly want to stretch its legs at some point, ditch the x39 idea. Especially considering that you don't reload.

My vote would be for a 6.5G if you want to stay small frame. If you want to go to a large frame, go with 308, 6.5CM or 260. Theres nothing wrong with a 243, but from what I've seen the factory guns in 243 have slow twists that aren't really good for the bullets you will want to shoot for long range. As far as I know as well, there aren't a lot of match/target loads out there in 243 and the few out there are expensive.

IMHO, anything you proposed will get the job done when it comes to hunting at ranges of 150yds and in.

 

[shaman]

Re: Is it time for me to step up to the AR-10?

Sorry, I guess I was misunderstood, I am referring to either a

7.62x39 (short range, short barrel) and a 6.5Grendel in AR-15

or

.308 (short range, short barrel) and a .243 or .260 in AR-10

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Is it time for me to step up to the AR-10?

What were saying is that one will do both. Avoid 7.62x39 ARs...

It will be no better in brush than a 6.5 G or standard 5.56.


I'd just get a regular AR and a .308 bolt gun were I you.

 

[346ci]

Re: Is it time for me to step up to the AR-10?

Go with a 16" 6.8, hell of a deer gun out to 400ish yards.

 

[cdmorten]

Re: Is it time for me to step up to the AR-10?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 346ci</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go with a 16" 6.8, hell of a deer gun out to 400ish yards. </div></div>

I have a 6.8 and it's sweet. I also have a 308 bolt gun and if you want to shoot long range at some point you want a 308 and I've never been one to believe in overkill so if price for the ammo isn't an issue I'd go 308.

 

[Rinky]

Re: Is it time for me to step up to the AR-10?

6.8SPC is a sweet little cartridge. I would look at some offerings in that as its got weight and works well with most platforms. Perfect middle of the road cartridge for 100-150yds.

 

[RyeDaddy]

Re: Is it time for me to step up to the AR-10?

If you're walking with your brush gun I'd go with the 6.5G. It can get to 1000 yards on targets and take game at 400 yards and in. It's a good compromise.

An AR in 308 is a horse of a different color when comparing with AR15's and talking about hunting. My 16.5" POF 308 is a great rifle and has been hunting a lot, but it's a heavy anchor to carry in the woods. It's not that it can't be done, but the difference in heft is not slight.

 

[shaman]

Re: Is it time for me to step up to the AR-10?

RyeDaddy, I have been thinking about that too. I thought about a 6.5 as a stand gun and a 16" 7.62x39 as the go find it after it goes down gun, either in a 11.5 pistol or 16" carbine. Or an 18" Grendel to do it all. The last 7.62x39 AR i had had no problems for two years. I sold it because I wanted something shorter, and got to this point. From reading on the 6.5G site, I feel like i need at least 18" in a Grendel in order to get out to 1K. An AA Grendel is

1299

But a DPMS 260 is

1217

Which is 7.9 pounds, not much more than the 7.5 for the Grendel Entry. Ammo is more, but it would be a much better distance shooting rifle, and game taking would be extended a few 100 yards as well. Hence the reason i started the thread.

 

[RyeDaddy]

Re: Is it time for me to step up to the AR-10?

If I were in your shoes and had a choice between an AR15 with two uppers to switch between long range and walk around hunting vs an AR10 to do it all I would choose the AR15 and two uppers and register the lower as an SBR. I'd do an 18-20" Grendel upper scoped for long range and stand huntind and a short (10") 300 BLK upper for walk around. I'd stay away from Comm-block cartridges for alot of reasons, but that's just me.

 

[shaman]

Re: Is it time for me to step up to the AR-10?

Rye, I already have alot of commblock ammo, and another 5.45x39 upper, so commblock is in the family. 15 years of 7.62x39, and 3 years of 5.45x39 with 700 rds combined down range, as compared to about 4 years of 5.56 without a shot of it fired yet.

I would still be looking at two AR10 uppers as well. 16-18" 308, and a longer 260 or 243. Even the 24" HB 260 is $800 for the upper.

 

[shaman]

Father just informed me he picked up a NIB DPMS 308 from Academy for a pre-feinsteined price. SG Works SKS bullpup is being built, and should be shipped soon. Lowers are still free, but I have a feeling that I may try my best to find an AR-10 upper and "borrow" his lower.

 

[Danco411]

Im with the others. A good brush gun means it needs to be short enough to be handy. The x39 offers nothing but cheap ammo as an advantage. The Grendel is a kick azz cartridge and I loved mine until I shot the .260 Remington. IMHO this it best all around cartridge. I built a Mega Maten with a Lilja 20" .260 barrel. It's short enough that I have confidence in using it in the brush and it will reach out past 1K easily. It is ballistically better than both the Grendel and .308 even with the short barrel. Ammo is available in both Match and Hunting rounds and it is one very easy round to reload. The choices in 6.5 bullets is fantastic. I'm shooting both the 142 SMK and Berger 140 heavies and also the Hornady 123 and 120 lightweights. All are like lasers. It likes most of the powders common for .308 with a few other easy to find powders as better options. I use RE19, H4350 and H4831SC.

You can buy a stock DPMS .260 that will shoot well off the shelf and upgrade from there. I have about 2K in my Mega build with all high end parts not including optics. It's not an AR15 weight rifle but I have no problem hunting with it with a good sling. It has a Vortex 4-16PST on it with a Burris Fastfire red dot on an angle mount for quick shots during hunting.