Rifle Scopes Is it worth it?

J

JSF

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 15, 2010
268
2
Oklahoma
#1
I have a subjective question to ask. I am new to long range shooting. Mike at Underground Skunkworks is going to build a .308 for me. Now, I need glass. I have narrowed it down to three scopes(IOR, USO, Heritage Premier). Is the Premier and USO worth the price increase over the IOR? I shoot at my local gun club and planning on attending a class at Badlands Training Facility in Oklahoma. I will use it for hunting as well. I have not had any experience with these scopes, so I am looking for a little advice. I can afford any of these scopes. Just don't like wasting money if I won't see a benefit. I am new to the forum and would like to thank everyone for their input.

Thanks, Jarrod
 
#2
Re: Is it worth it?

You have already been shopping around, so you are aware that you can spend as much on glass as you have on your rifle. The glass is your interface between the rifle and the target. imo, cheap glass is akin to putting bias ply tires on a Ferrari. You have so much riding on a tube that holds zero, elevation and windage that returns and is repeatable and a clean picture with no aberrations. Go with the best that you can afford, just as you will with the rings, mounts, the stock, the equipment that you use to make your handloads, the projectiles and brass. Its one of those weakest link things.

I like Swarovski. Its the clearest glass that I have had the pleasure of using. Im bothered to see that they are now coming out with lower end units. I hope they dont loose track of where they began.
 
#4
Re: Is it worth it?

They are worth it if you can afford it.

But you don't NEED to spend that much to get a scope that will allow you to shoot accurately out to 1000 yards.

An argument can be made that a zero stop is a safety feature. If you shoot at a target 400 yards away, while elevation is set for 800 yards (both will read 5 on the dial), your shot will be WAY too high and could be dangerous.

The military spends the money for top quality, USO, Leupold, Schmidt & Bender, Premier etc. So apparently THEY think it's worth it.
 
#5
Re: Is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now, I need glass. I have narrowed it down to three scopes(IOR, USO, Heritage Premier). Is the Premier and USO worth the price increase over the IOR?

Thanks, Jarrod </div></div>

"Worth" is a relative term for many people. Personally, while the glass in the IOR scopes is good and certainly nothing to sneeze at, I don't find it to be in the same optical quality class as the USO, Premier, S&B, etc., but as you have already observed, the price doesn't reflect the higher quality of the other choices either.

The best advice I can give you is to buy the best optic you possibly can for the price range you have set for your build. If you have the money, I would get a USO or a PH without missing a heartbeat or giving it a second thought.
 
#7
Re: Is it worth it?

Thanks for the advice everyone. Sniperaviator, I understand why the military thinks it's worth it. Their lives depend on it. I'm just trying to makes as an informed decision as I can with out having any experience with them. Is it just splitting hairs between the USO and Premier?
 
#9
Re: Is it worth it?

I haven't heard of any problems with the "new" IOR 3.5-18 or 6-24's.I consider my 6-24FFP a great value.Very nice scope.

I like Horus reticles so just the other day I ordered a NF F1,3-15,10 mil knobs,ZS,H58.I'm thinking that with size,weight,features,track record all combined it'll be a super tactical type scope.

Wanna buy my USO 3.2-17,Tpal,H-25?
wink.gif
 
#10
Re: Is it worth it?

having never handled a premier but currently own and shoot a USO and have probably messed with at least one of every other manufacturer out there in one form or another.

I can say that you should always look at it the way the European hunters do, they buy optics, then buy rifles to fit them. I always recommend spending about the same on the optics as you do the rifle, so if you are dropping 2-3+ on a custom rifle, whats the problem in dropping 1500-2K on a USO or a Nightforce? or 2-3K on a Premier?. If you blow your entire budget on a rifle, your better off saving for 6 months and buying a good scope rather than getting something that your not satisfied with. I personally go the other way, get a high end scope, put it on a factory Remington, and eventually you'll upgrade the barrel and stock... case in point I have a 700 LTR that I put a USO on, a year later I've dropped it in an AICS chassis, the next incarnation will be a different barrel chambered in .260. I've been shooting the hell out of it with great performance, and I'm not having to readjust my sight picture/reticle calculations every time I upgrade something.
 
#11
Re: Is it worth it?

Well, besides glass, ask yourself this...do you mind long heavy scopes? Or do you want something more compact?

For compact highend, Hendsoldt and March are probably the best. If compactness isn't a factor, then you have the whole field where you can pick based on the relative value proposition of each:

1. USO - great tube, turrents, and customizability. Mediocre glass and rather bulky.
2. S&B - nice reticle selection, great glass. Longer tube/bit bulky and not much elevation/windage adjustment range.
3. Hendsoldt - great glass and very good compactness. Fewer aperture and reticle selection; not that much elevation/windage adjustment range.
4. Premier - great tube, great glass, and decent reticle selection and adjustment range. Bulky and heavy.
5. March - best compactness, great elevation/windage adjustment range, best magnification range, great glass. Nominal 5 year warranty and tube may not be as tough as above.
 
#13
Re: Is it worth it?

Steve123, may I ask why you ordered the NF? Is that not basically the same featured scope as the USO you have? Just wondering because I have no idea.
 
#15
Re: Is it worth it?

Hi JSF,
I sent you a PM.
I have a list that will help you make an informed decision about which scope will most fit your needs. You may find it helpful in making your decision.
There are also a few scope companies that you left out that might be well suited to your needs.
Let me know if I can help.

Paul
 
#16
Re: Is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, besides glass, ask yourself this...do you mind long heavy scopes? Or do you want something more compact?

For compact highend, Hendsoldt and March are probably the best. If compactness isn't a factor, then you have the whole field where you can pick based on the relative value proposition of each:

1. USO - great tube, turrents, and customizability. Mediocre glass and rather bulky.
2. S&B - nice reticle selection, great glass. Longer tube/bit bulky and not much elevation/windage adjustment range.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">When did 26 mil of elevation become "not much" wtf r u shooting a cheytac, even on a 308 26 will stretch it way the fuck out there.</span></span>
3. Hendsoldt - great glass and very good compactness. Fewer aperture and reticle selection; not that much elevation/windage adjustment range.
4. Premier - great tube, great glass, and decent reticle selection and adjustment range. Bulky and heavy.
5. March - best compactness, great elevation/windage adjustment range, best magnification range, great glass. Nominal 5 year warranty and tube may not be as tough as above.</div></div>
 
#17
Re: Is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, besides glass, ask yourself this...do you mind long heavy scopes? Or do you want something more compact?

For compact highend, Hendsoldt and March are probably the best. If compactness isn't a factor, then you have the whole field where you can pick based on the relative value proposition of each:

1. USO - great tube, turrents, and customizability. Mediocre glass and rather bulky.
2. S&B - nice reticle selection, great glass. Longer tube/bit bulky and not much elevation/windage adjustment range.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">When did 26 mil of elevation become "not much" wtf r u shooting a cheytac, even on a 308 26 will stretch it way the fuck out there.</span></span>
3. Hendsoldt - great glass and very good compactness. Fewer aperture and reticle selection; not that much elevation/windage adjustment range.
4. Premier - great tube, great glass, and decent reticle selection and adjustment range. Bulky and heavy.
5. March - best compactness, great elevation/windage adjustment range, best magnification range, great glass. Nominal 5 year warranty and tube may not be as tough as above.</div></div> </div></div>

It became "not much" right about the same time a non-existent scope that has yet to make it to market and in fact only had the reticle figured out within the past day or so warranted a spot on the short list of 5 top tactical scopes.
 
#18
Re: Is it worth it?

I had a lot of misgivings before dropping the coin on a high-end scope, but I have no regrets having had my Premier 3-15X50 for over a year now. It is heavy and bulky. But the glass is first-rate, the FOV is too. And I really like the turrets and the magnification range. It has made me take my shooting more seriously with better results. No doubt in part because of the investment made.
 
#19
Re: Is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, besides glass, ask yourself this...do you mind long heavy scopes? Or do you want something more compact?

For compact highend, Hendsoldt and March are probably the best. If compactness isn't a factor, then you have the whole field where you can pick based on the relative value proposition of each:

1. USO - great tube, turrents, and customizability. Mediocre glass and rather bulky.
2. S&B - nice reticle selection, great glass. Longer tube/bit bulky and not much elevation/windage adjustment range.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">When did 26 mil of elevation become "not much" wtf r u shooting a cheytac, even on a 308 26 will stretch it way the fuck out there.</span></span>
3. Hendsoldt - great glass and very good compactness. Fewer aperture and reticle selection; not that much elevation/windage adjustment range.
4. Premier - great tube, great glass, and decent reticle selection and adjustment range. Bulky and heavy.
5. March - best compactness, great elevation/windage adjustment range, best magnification range, great glass. Nominal 5 year warranty and tube may not be as tough as above.</div></div> </div></div>

From the specs at S&B:
http://www.schmidtbender.com/scopes_policemarksman.shtml

Most of them only have 56 MOA of travel which is "not much" in my book. The only exception appears to be the 5-25 PM II which has 26 Mrad of elevation.

Plus, JSF didn't specify SFP or FFP and the already out Marches do have better specs in the elevation range in most comparable models.
 
#20
Re: Is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, besides glass, ask yourself this...do you mind long heavy scopes? Or do you want something more compact?

For compact highend, Hendsoldt and March are probably the best. If compactness isn't a factor, then you have the whole field where you can pick based on the relative value proposition of each:

1. USO - great tube, turrents, and customizability. Mediocre glass and rather bulky.
2. S&B - nice reticle selection, great glass. Longer tube/bit bulky and not much elevation/windage adjustment range.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">When did 26 mil of elevation become "not much" wtf r u shooting a cheytac, even on a 308 26 will stretch it way the fuck out there.</span></span>
3. Hendsoldt - great glass and very good compactness. Fewer aperture and reticle selection; not that much elevation/windage adjustment range.
4. Premier - great tube, great glass, and decent reticle selection and adjustment range. Bulky and heavy.
5. March - best compactness, great elevation/windage adjustment range, best magnification range, great glass. Nominal 5 year warranty and tube may not be as tough as above.</div></div> </div></div>

It became "not much" right about the same time a non-existent scope that has yet to make it to market and in fact only had the reticle figured out within the past day or so warranted a spot on the short list of 5 top tactical scopes. </div></div>

which one is that? the March scope?
 
#21
Re: Is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, besides glass, ask yourself this...do you mind long heavy scopes? Or do you want something more compact?

For compact highend, Hendsoldt and March are probably the best. If compactness isn't a factor, then you have the whole field where you can pick based on the relative value proposition of each:

1. USO - great tube, turrents, and customizability. Mediocre glass and rather bulky.
2. S&B - nice reticle selection, great glass. Longer tube/bit bulky and not much elevation/windage adjustment range.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">When did 26 mil of elevation become "not much" wtf r u shooting a cheytac, even on a 308 26 will stretch it way the fuck out there.</span></span>
3. Hendsoldt - great glass and very good compactness. Fewer aperture and reticle selection; not that much elevation/windage adjustment range.
4. Premier - great tube, great glass, and decent reticle selection and adjustment range. Bulky and heavy.
5. March - best compactness, great elevation/windage adjustment range, best magnification range, great glass. Nominal 5 year warranty and tube may not be as tough as above.</div></div> </div></div>

From the specs at S&B:
http://www.schmidtbender.com/scopes_policemarksman.shtml

Most of them only have 56 MOA of travel which is "not much" in my book. The only exception appears to be the 5-25 PM II which has 26 Mrad of elevation.

Plus, JSF didn't specify SFP or FFP and the already out Marches do have better specs in the elevation range in most comparable models.</div></div>

first of all the elevation is up which still should get you to at least 1200yds even with a 308. there is also a double turn 3-12 with 26 and if you don't mind moa there is a double turn at every power range. however i feel like i am wasting my time with you honestly.
 
#22
Re: Is it worth it?

For what it's worth, I used 13 mils of elevation with a short barreled .308 zeroed at 100 yards to get to 1000 yards. If that barrel had been 20 inches or longer I certainly would have not needed that much. But the real point is that 26 mils on a 20 inch or longer .308 is certainly longer range shooting than most people will ever do!
 
#24
Re: Is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Wanna buy my USO 3.2-17,Tpal,H-25?
wink.gif
</div></div>

Say it isn't so!!
 
#25
Re: Is it worth it?

The type of scope I am looking at is 3-15 FFP mil/mil. 1,000 yards is about the max distance I will be shooting for now. Most of the time it will be 600 yards. Max distance at my gun club. Rifle build is .308 w/ 22 inch barrel. Just got off the phone with Paul at Premier. Very nice and helpful person. Customer service is one thing I didn't think about.
 
#26
Re: Is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve123, may I ask why you ordered the NF? Is that not basically the same featured scope as the USO you have? Just wondering because I have no idea. </div></div>

Concerning the NF F1.

1.Because of the track record of Nightforce in reference to reliability.IMO,only Hensoldt is better.
2.The weight.a mere 30oz.
3.Knob size/subjective feel,illumination,zero stop and 10 mils per turn.I had the opportunity to dial the high speed turrets on a NF recently and they were superb!I thought the click spacing would be too close together but they were perfectly fine.
4.Overall size of the scope.Reasonably compact at 14.7"
5.Approx 30 mils total elevation travel.
6.Great glass.Not as good as my IOR but very good.I have a couple other NF's and think well of them.
7.I like that H-58 reticle!

My particular USO has the US#1 knobs which I don't care for.It's heavyish,which I'm not enthused about either,although one could drive nails with it,if need be
smile.gif
In my particular scope,a TPAL,the glass is mediocre at best.If my USO had a EREK knob I'd probably just keep it.USO has great customer service and are very liberal with match support,attributes which are always appreciated.

I'm thinking real hard about that new March 3-24FFP too! Anybody want a Remmy 260 or MSAR,LOL.
 
#27
Re: Is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Wanna buy my USO 3.2-17,Tpal,H-25?
wink.gif
</div></div>

Say it isn't so!! </div></div>

That would be like you selling your USOptics.......
 
#28
Re: Is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Wanna buy my USO 3.2-17,Tpal,H-25?
wink.gif
</div></div>

Say it isn't so!! </div></div>

LOL
grin.gif
 
#30
Re: Is it worth it?

great move goin to badlands...call bobby or steve, or post on the badlands board. i went out there w a super sniper 10x, now i own 3. i also own a 3-15 premier and im super happy w it. as much as i like new guns glass and stuff, i really cant wait to get to badlands again.
 
#32
Re: Is it worth it?

I wish the Premier was a little lighter. We are going through the trouble & money of trying to build a lighter rifle and tossing a 38oz scope makes the 90% fill and fluting, etc not amount to much.
I hear the new March coming out is a lot lighter.
 
#33
Re: Is it worth it?

I think Ian posted that the new March 3x-24x42 would weigh 22.6oz. Could some one comment on the durability of a March scope? I know more weight does not always translate into better durability, but, it has me wondering.
 
#34
Re: Is it worth it?

I talked to one of the engineers at nightforce a couple months agos and the new high speed turrets where designed to do 32.5 max. And strangely so I have 32.5 mils with a 30 MOA base I have 26.5 mils up and 6 mil down on a 26in .308 so more than some scopes have all together and its a 5.5-22 not a 3.5-15.
 
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