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Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

V

vonbalkenbush

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 21, 2008
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Reno, Nevada
Can anyone out there give me specific numbers showing their melonited barrel's are lasting longer than untreated barrels?
I spoke with an absolute guru on this subject last week, and he told me don't waste your money. "Barrels don't wear out son, they burn out." "and increasing the surface hardness of the barrel steel will do absolutely nothing for throat erosion" were his words exactly.

So I would like to know if anyone that is currently running a melonited barrel has yet to reach the end of the barrels accurate life, and if that number was much higher than it would have been had the barrel not been melonited?

-SBS
 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

The things I would consider are:
How much does it cost?
How much thickness does it add to your barrel. I believe its .00015 per wall if I remember correctly. That adds up...
I bet the barrel cleans up really easy but custom barrels are already easy to clean.
It will wear out so eventually so your fps will be affected. Just one more thing to throw into the mix.
 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

If I understand correctly, melonite treatments CAN net you some fps gains because you can push the projectile harder before you reach pressure limits. However, this may only apply to melonited receivers so I'll defer to an expert here.
 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

I think the only way to know would be to take two identical barrels, melonite each, and shoot the same number of rounds through each with the same methodology so that uneven heating between the two doesnt' skew the results. A test like this would likely get measurable results alot faster with barrel burning chambering like the 7STW or 7RUM. Even then, a pretty tedious and expensive experiment.

I'm guessing it doesnt make as much difference as advertised, but I've been wrong before.
 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

I like to stick to industry standards.

I don't know crap about melonited barrels except that there is a lot of contraversy.

Same thing with molycoated bullets.

I've worked long and hard to acquire some top shelf gear and I'm not in a position to experiment with it. Sponsored shooters like David Tubb and barrel manufacturers do a lot of research on these things. I don't because it is on my dime. Let them do the research.

All good inventions become industry standard eventually. That is true from the tractor vs. Mule to the lightbuld vs. candle. Until then I guess I'll be a pesamistic old crab.
 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

Cobalt Barrels, that will be the holy grail of shooting once DARPA finishes working out how to make them in a cost effective way.
 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swampbuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like to stick to industry standards.

I don't know crap about melonited barrels except that there is a lot of contraversy.

Same thing with molycoated bullets.

I've worked long and hard to acquire some top shelf gear and I'm not in a position to experiment with it. Sponsored shooters like David Tubb and barrel manufacturers do a lot of research on these things. I don't because it is on my dime. Let them do the research.

All good inventions become industry standard eventually. That is true from the tractor vs. Mule to the lightbuld vs. candle. Until then I guess I'll be a pesamistic old crab. </div></div>

Moly bullets are another topic and one I think bears a little more merit. Without getting too far off the subject, moly coated bullets are good for calibers that use fast burning powders and aren't generally intended to be subsonic. The moly coating reduces friction, allowing you to achieve and maintain a certain velocity without overpressure and possibly prevent a stuck bullet. I've also seen shooters apply a small amount of crisco around the ogive to achieve the same effect.
All that said, most subsonic factory ammunition isn't moly but Lapua and others do offer it so it's probably something you'd have to experiment with. I shoot a 26" 260 so it's something that interests me.

Back on topic, is DARPA gonna bring their cobalt barrels to SHOT 2013?
smile.gif
 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

Only reason I'm asking for opinions is cause I'm about to have another barrel spun for my 6XC. The first two ran just shy of 3k with coated bullets. I was gonna have this one melonited for sure until I talked to my smith. Now I'm not sure I wanna spend the extra cash and take a chance ruining a perfectly good Bartlien that I know will run sub 1/2 out to 2500 rds. Especially if, according to him, I will not see an increase in barrel life.
Guess will just have to wait for the cobalt.

-SBS
 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

I agree with the burn out theory since I see more barrels then a normal group of human being:)

I do not recommend this for our barrels which are manufactured out 416R since the salt bathe's temperature is well above the annealing temperature of 416R. That means the substrate below the coating will have a decreased hardness.

Since the moly issue was raised, it is a myth that moly reduces friction in the bore. Moly was developed as a anti galling coating for heat treat furnaces to keep hardware from melting together. It is e substance that when coated on a bullet increases the friction in the tube which allows the bullet to build up additional pressure and thus increases the muzzle volositiy. Think of the effects of squeezing the end of a garden hose, more pressure the farther it shoots out.

Moly will decrease barrel life but these bullets have their applications. Some are more aggressive then others and combined with other corrosive powders can cause serious barrel wear. Gain a little FPS lose a little barrel life, that's life, win a little, lose a little.

 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

I had 8 barrels melonited and have shot a couple out. We borescoped a 308WIN with 6000 rounds on it and the best shooter I know, said it looked like it only had 2000 rounds on it. Funny thing is the barrel started shooting markedly worse at this point....no matter how it "looked." Another barrel, a 243WIN was done in 2000 rounds. Now maybe that barrel would have been shot out in 1500 without the treatment: I dunno. So, in my little sample, things are inconclusive in my mind. I you'd need to have a pretty big sample size before you could come to any definite conclusions.

In the future, I'm probably not going to melonite any more. Instead, I have acquired hand throat-reaming and barrel crowning tools. Will try to touch up the crown and throat to see if that extends the accurate barrel life. You certainly can't do that to a melonited barrel.
 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

Decoy,
You are in barrel making industry so you know much more about moly in barrels than me. But, moly wasn't developed, it is mineral and is used in other applications. I don't know what it does in barrel but moly is one of the best friction reducers and it is similar to graphite not diamond which is highly abrasive.
 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

well my melonited 243 AI had 3 inches of fire cracked throat after 465 rds and fouls like an SOB now, can't even shoot a 20 rd string without cleaning, so no more F class with it.
This was expensive to get and now I am stuck with a barrel that I cannot do a thing to fix.
to hell with meloniting, never again.
 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

^^ That right there!^^

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well my melonited 243 AI had 3 inches of fire cracked throat after 465 rds and fouls like an SOB now, can't even shoot a 20 rd string without cleaning, so no more F class with it.
This was expensive to get and now I am stuck with a barrel that I cannot do a thing to fix.
to hell with meloniting, never again.</div></div>
 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

I'm not going to melonite my barrel, but my action is headed back to Bat for it to be melonited. It will eliminate galling in actions per Bat.
 
Re: Is Nitride/Melonite barrel treatment a Farce?

Quick correction here in re the moly coating; Lapua doesn't offer it anymore. We dropped this line about two years ago, and no longer list the Silver Scenar (moly coated) bullets or ammo in our catalog.
 
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