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Is one 6.5 more accurate than the other 6.5's?

3-0-hate

3-0-hate

Captain Nimcompoop
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 13, 2011
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Lost in Idaho...
So, while cleaning my .308 R700 today, I was considering that maybe, just maybe I should rebarrel it to .260REM so I can stretch its legs a bit better on the big end... I have lots of .308 brass that I could re-form, so thats not really much of an issue. Im already running low on projectiles, so thats not really an issue either.. Besides, I still have my M1A, so its not like I couldnt use the .30cal bullets anyways.

My question though is: Is any 6.5 configuration more accurate than another 6.5? Like is 6.5x47 more accurate than .260 or 6.5BR or 6.5 Creedmoor? What about barrel life? Which one typically offers up better throat life?

Im what you would call a 6.5 newb.. I plan on rebarreling my M98 Mauser to 6.5x55 Swede, and I realize that the 6.5 bullets offer better sectional density and better BC's which offer much flatter trajectories, but thats about it.. As far as the different configurations, Im pretty clueless.
 
People sometimes choose because of availability/cost/quality of brass. Lapua and Norma can be expensive compared what you pay for Winchester brass.
 
I chose 6.5 Creedmoor due to cost and I don't reload. Factory 140 Amax 6.5 Creedmoor is not that much more expensive then most match 308 ammo but it's leaps/bounds ballistically :)
 
I chose the x47 so I could load the longer VLD's into my AICS mags. Plus I figured I'd be using lapua brass anyways for my precision shooting. I'm no expert but it has a sharper shoulder angle which is supposedly better for accuracy and it also means less streching during resizing.


When I want to shoot cheap ill shoot my 308.
 
cox308 said:
I chose the x47 so I could load the longer VLD's into my AICS mags. Plus I figured I'd be using lapua brass anyways for my precision shooting. I'm no expert but it has a sharper shoulder angle which is supposedly better for accuracy and it also means less streching during resizing.


When I want to shoot cheap ill shoot my 308.
Click to expand...

The only pitfall in 6.5x47 is when you can't pick up your brass at a match. Not saying we are all in that boat but some of us definetly are.

6.5 Creedmoor has the best factory ammo availible and its at a great price point. Hell you can find "In Stock" right now.

.260 is extremely reloader friendly tons and tons of brass options availible. Some people getting match grade loads for around .40 cents a piece.

6.5x47 offers some benefits as far as bullets and has the best brass availible.
 
I was in this boat about a month ago and chose .260 for the simple reason that there are not many ballistic differences (not that significant, anyway), and the options for reloading are better for the .260 than any other 6.5's. If you want an improved shoulder, AI it!

ETA - I am able to get cheap Remmy brass that I won't mind losing at matches. From my research, and from friends who have used the Remmy .260 brass, they say it is actually pretty damn decent.
 
Are you asking about precision (ability to hit same spot again and again) or accuracy (ability to hit a target). Two different concepts. x47L might have a small edge on precision given the brass set-up - high quality brass, small rifle primer, shorter powder column, 30* shoulder, bullet base at the perfect spot in the case. So if you were setting up a benchrest gun and you had to choose one of the three, I would say x47L. Of course, if this is replacing a 308, you are probably more concerned about hitting targets, in which case, the small edge in precision will be outweighed by other factors, most of which guys have covered above.

Whatever cartridge you choose, you will love 6.5. The recoil reduction is huge as is the ballistic improvement past 600-700yds vs a 308. Good luck!
 
Well, i can't add any more, except to summarize:
6.5 creed = great round all around, especially if you don't reload (hornady factory match is around $30a box and is a proven shooter, so much so that even reloaders will sometimes choose buy over build). Slight, slight less velocity over it's comparator, the 260, but many are willing to trade that for the, as said, available match ammo options, and we're talking like 50fps maybe. There are also arguments that it's shoulder angle results in a more uniform powder burn and more consistent muzzle velocities. One shortfall, ok two, are limited brass options and somewhat limited die options.
Remington 260= great round, tons of brass options. A plus, for me is my Redding match bushing neck Sizer(with a new bushing of course) and body die for my 308 can be used for the 260. And the bullet seater can also be used with the purchase of a 6.5mm bullet seater micrometer $30. Short coming of the 260 would be that the longer, hybrid bullets tend to load too long to fit in most short action magazines, and match ammo is not readily available and it's about $2/rnd if you do find it. Cheapest i have found (although i do reload) is like $168 for 100 rounds, but that's the less desirable Remington brass.
6.5x47 = great round, especially for loading the longer hybrid bullets to mag length while keeping the bullet seating depth optimal.Measurably lower velocities may make it less desirable for some of the longer distance shots, and there's what, only one brass option and it's expensive.
 
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Inherently no, one 6.5 will shoot just as well as the next in different cartridges. It all depends on what the distance is your trying to reach. My 6.5 Grendel out of an AR platform is just every bit as accurate as my 6.5X55 TacOps Delta-55 out to say 600-700 yards......after that, because of a lower velocity ceiling on the Grendel, the Swede begins to overtake it out to 1k yards. This is with the understanding that we are not considering wind as a factor as well. As you do consider the wind drift, you will migrate to a heavier bullet and, as a result, need more powder to keep the velocity up to push it out further......this is where proper cartridge selection for the job is critical.

If you intend to build a 6.5, base your cartridge selection on the distance you intend to shoot. This will narrow your field considerably as to what is best for you to achieve your goal.
 
All such good info, thank you.

I think I have decided to go with .260 if I do rebarrel. It should compliment my 6.5x55 Mauser98 project nicely, and component sharing is always a bonus. I still wont be totally leaving the .308 out in the cold either though, I still have my M1A that I occasionally use in CMP and NRA Hi-Power matches. But who knows? Maybe that will get a .260 tube someday also.. That would be pretty cool actually!
 
I find the 6.5 x 47L slighty underpowered compared to the 260 and 6.5 CM.

The 6.5 x 47 is easy on brass (20+ reloads) and 2-3" groups at 700 yds from my Gradous-built Surgeon are not uncommon.

This is with the 130 Bergers and 123 Scenars.

If you want to shoot the 140 class bullets with authority to 1000, go with the 6.5 CM or 260 Rem.
 
I run a Creedmoor and x47. m14er is right. I push the x47 at the highest node just to get the 140vld to 2800 fps. Consequently, I run a mild load in the Creedmoor to attain the same velocity.
 
It's like asking me why I prefer blonde hair blue eyes nice tits and ass chick and I'm asian...

I chose 6.5CM over others because:

- it was gaining popularity 3 years ago (just like an iphone)
- brass and ammo availability and price. The brass and ammo is affordable and Hornady makes a crap ton of it.
- MV - I can go with 120@3100FPS or 140 @ 2700FPS my choice if I want the barrell to last longer or not
- Recoil is not as hard as the 6.5x47
- I like the idea of a compressed round but with a minimal velocity @ 2850FPS
- Savage Arms started selling them which is really cheap
- I want a rifle that not a lot of shooters have (at the time) so I picked up a 6.5CM


I forgot to add that my custom savage with 30" straight contoured barrel makes 10-20% hits at 1 mile on 2'x2' target and I'm still a newbie...
 
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I'm looking forward to that new Lapua 136gr bullet. It is short, 1.35-ish", so it will mag feed nicely from a 260 and you will be able to get a lot of powder behind it with a x47. As such, its MV might be comparable to the 130gr class (2900+) but with the 140gr class's BC (0.60+ G1). Precision probably will be like anything Lapua - excellent. It has secant ogives, but with a tangent like transition to the bearing area (similar to Berger's Hybrid design). Could be a real winner out of any of the medium 6.5's.
 
The 6.5x47 does have some benefits in that it is more efficient with burning the powder. Less powder required to reach the same velocities, which in turn means less throat erosion.
But if you want to really push the velocities to the max, and shoot the longest ranges possible, I'd probably go for the .260 and forget about the better efficiency and barrel life.

The x47 is potentially cheaper to shoot than .308 (if you reload!), the .260 is slightly more expensive all things considered.
 
"It's like asking me why I prefer blonde hair blue eyes nice tits and ass chick and I'm asian..."

Your analogy is lost (and wasted) on me......Everybody likes that. Right?

6,5 loads with 37.4 grains of RE15 and a 123 grain Scenar recoil is nil. Screw a can on it and it
kicks like a Daisy.

As far as accuracy goes, some say there is something about the use of the small rifle primers
in the 6.5L that is inherent to the ridiculously small groups it is capable of.

The technical aspects were explained to me once but I forget in my middle age, so I can
neither confirm nor deny such claims.
 
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There have been theories thrown out that short/fat/long necks equal better accuracy.. I tend not to weight in.

Reasons I went with the .260 over the others.
1. I reload
2. Lapua Brass ( x47 has it too)
3. Holds a bit more powder
4. Runs just fine out of mags

Only negative is if you want to seat out the heavies really far, you run into issues with fitting in mags. But my chamber isn't long throated so no worries. HDY 140s are as long as I go.

If I were not to reload, I'd do the Creed for better factory options at a good price.
 
Hawk, what's your oal and jump on your 260? I'm thinking about making the 140amx my go to bullet just because they don't seem to be picky at all about jump and there's no meplate to trim.
 
All 6.5s will shoot as good as the smith who makes the rifle, the load used and the shooter. Accuracy will be the same with all if all they are done right. All the shooters on this site shooting all three proves that point. You just need to pick the one that has what you want and go with it.

I have shot the Creedmoor for the past 5 years, as our team is sponsored by Hornady, but even if we weren't I would. It's a great cartridge. Hornady brass is excellent. The factory ammo is great. It's all I shoot in matches and it has never let me down. Functions great in AI mags. I haven't found a lot yet that doesn't shoot sub 1/2 MOA from my rifle. Below are some typical 5 shot groups. First at 100 and the second at 300.

DSCN1147.jpg

140AMA300.jpg
 
DPMS 6.5 Creedmoor

IMG_20110507_210359.jpg


After zeroing 5 shot group, that flier was me, completely. The accuracy is amazing.

IMG_20110509_124334.jpg


My father was with me at the time, spotting and was just blown away, they are going into what looks like the same hole! I am glad I had a witness as the paper doesn't even really reflect it.

My choices were between the 260 Armalite and the 6.5 done in one of my bolt guns, Mike at CS Tactical was telling me to just try one of the DPMS rifles, if I could find one. They are not very expensive and if you like it, convert a bolt. Was really good advice, I like it but it is my only 6.5 creedmoor I have. I'd like a AE 6.5 creedmoor, some day.
 
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If you're talking the tactical short action variants (6.5 CM, 260 Rem, 6.5x47L) you're really splitting hairs. The article by Zak Smith pretty much shows that along with the innumerable posts of all the longtime shooters here. 6.5x55 swede is primarily a European hunting cartridge. 6.5x284 is used in a long action for long range high power. It has more power and is better performing than the three short action variants, but at the expense of barrel life and the need for a long action cartridge. You can get Lapua brass for all these cases except the 6.5 CM; however, Hornady brass is good and it is "normally" easy to get factory CM ammo.
 
I had the same question just over a year ago and read every article I could find, went through the posts here on the Hide, and asked shooters at matches. It was a toss up between .260 and 6.5CM. The 6x47 didn't seem to carry well at really long ranges. I have a pile of various 6.5CM loads from Hornady, many of them cost on $23, or so, as i picked them up on sale, mostly from Midway. I also bought every load available from Copper Creek, most of which were a little more expensive than the factory stuff. And Nosler is coming out with a few loads this summer, although they are a bit pricey. So, 6.5CM is widely available at a good price. I would like the option of more brass manufacturers though as all this brass will turn into reloads. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened due to the popularity of the cartridge. As said above, you're splitting hairs ballisticaly.
 
bodywerks said:
Hawk, what's your oal and jump on your 260? I'm thinking about making the 140amx my go to bullet just because they don't seem to be picky at all about jump and there's no meplate to trim.
Click to expand...

I haven't been able to try out the 140Amax yet, but with Nosler CC 140's I'm 3.288" to the lands (w/ comparator). This is with a Savage LRP. I've just started load testing with this with 123 Amax's, 123 Nosler CCs, 139 Lapua Scenars and the 140 Nosler CCs. I've loaded several up of each bullet and various ladder charges starting at a jump of .010 and move in/out once a node is found and looking to tighten up groups from there.

I would suggest you get a set of Hornady Comparitors and one of their COL gauges and the appropriate cartridge for your calibers. It is invaluable to find your chamber dimensions for seating depth. It will also allow you measure throat erosion over time.
 
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.260 is extremely reloader friendly tons and tons of brass options availible. Some people getting match grade loads for around .40 cents a piece.
Click to expand...

This is a good point to keep in mind during reloading though when barrel life is factored in there the price comes up a bit. My price point on <1/4MOA 6.5CM reloads is $0.4081/round but with barrel life in there it's $0.5148/rd with 4600rd and doing the installation myself (Yes, I've detailed it that far, including brass cost and equipment cost amortization over the last 10,000rd)

My 260's barrel life was substantially lower and the cost per round was higher. If you calculate the "cost per barrel burned" the 6.5CM was ~$2400 vs $1780 for the 260. That's a big difference driven primarily by the fact that the barrel lasted 50% longer. I'm quite convinced that the case geometry at the neck and shoulder has a lot to do with that.

I chose the 6.5CM because I wanted more oomph than the 6.5x47L case but to maintain the neck and shoulder geometry that the cases like 6.5SuperLR and 6.5x47L bring to the table over the 260 Rem.

I had a 260 Rem and while it shot well, it never shot routinely as well as my 6.5CM's have for the last 2 barrels.

The end result on them is that there are very few shooters that can actually state that they can outshoot a 260 and it's easily capable of match level performance. Additionally, I get identical ballistic performance from my 6.5CM compared to a 260 for ~1gr less powder per round.


Zack's article is good though many of the conclusions he drew based on components availability and price point on the 6.5CM are largely obsolete in 2012 than they were in 2008.
 
I chose a 6.5X47 because Lapua brass is available and the barrel life is better than a 6.5-284 or a 260. That's the other question to ask, how many rounds do you need to get out of it before doing a barrel change, some 6.5-284s go out in 750-900 rounds, you might get 1000-1500 out of a 260 and maybe 2000-2500 out of a 6.5X47 or a 6.5 Creemoor...these are just averages...something to think about.
 
Those barrel life numbers are way off on the low side.
 
If you hotrod a smaller capacity cartridge (6.5x47) to achieve equal velocity with a higher capacity cartridge (260), the barrel will last FEWER rounds than if you just used the bigger cartridge to begin with.
 
Dont know about the CM, but have been researching the other options. you will get about 1000+ more shots out of a similarly performing x47 than you would a .260 as you need more powder for the .260.
These are estimates using loads that are still in the reloading tables. I'm getting around 2300 shots for the .260 and about 3500 for the x47 (calculated, not experience, would love to hear about anyone who can confirm this)

As said previously though, due to the case capacity, you can really push those .260's much faster than the recommended loads, while the x47 is probably pretty maxed out. So if you just want the hottest load, go for the .260

If the CM combines the best of both, that should be an awsome round. Sadly I cant get brass for it in Europe, so thats why I haven't researched it much further.
 
bohem said:
My 260's barrel life was substantially lower and the cost per round was higher. If you calculate the "cost per barrel burned" the 6.5CM was ~$2400 vs $1780 for the 260.
Click to expand...
You have the 6.5CM and 260 mixed up here right? You're meaning to say that 260 is ~ $2400 and 6.5CM is $1780, right?
 
I asked a similar question on here recently and the consensus was for .260 Rem.

I'm going to try a Savage LRH in one as soon as I decide on and find a good deal on glass.
 
All are good cartridges. For practical purposes all are plenty accurate. In my experience, I have been able to tune the loads better on the 6.5x47 and feel that is is the most forgiving 6.5. The Creedmoor is also really accurate and has the upside of being able to buy ammo and go shoot. I haven't gone through a barrel with any of them besides the 6.5x47, and it was at 4,000 rounds and still shooting around .3 moa. It got a nasty carbon ring in the throat so I pulled it off, but it still had some life left in it.
 
bohem said:
This is a good point to keep in mind during reloading though when barrel life is factored in there the price comes up a bit. My price point on <1/4MOA 6.5CM reloads is $0.4081/round but with barrel life in there it's $0.5148/rd with 4600rd and doing the installation myself (Yes, I've detailed it that far, including brass cost and equipment cost amortization over the last 10,000rd)

My 260's barrel life was substantially lower and the cost per round was higher. If you calculate the "cost per barrel burned" the 6.5CM was ~$2400 vs $1780 for the 260. That's a big difference driven primarily by the fact that the barrel lasted 50% longer. I'm quite convinced that the case geometry at the neck and shoulder has a lot to do with that.

I chose the 6.5CM because I wanted more oomph than the 6.5x47L case but to maintain the neck and shoulder geometry that the cases like 6.5SuperLR and 6.5x47L bring to the table over the 260 Rem.

I had a 260 Rem and while it shot well, it never shot routinely as well as my 6.5CM's have for the last 2 barrels.

The end result on them is that there are very few shooters that can actually state that they can outshoot a 260 and it's easily capable of match level performance. Additionally, I get identical ballistic performance from my 6.5CM compared to a 260 for ~1gr less powder per round.


Zack's article is good though many of the conclusions he drew based on components availability and price point on the 6.5CM are largely obsolete in 2012 than they were in 2008.
Click to expand...

I have never looked at it this way.
 
ilonggo-Z06_vette said:
I chose 6.5CM over others because:

- it was gaining popularity 3 years ago (just like an iphone)
- brass and ammo availability and price. The brass and ammo is affordable and Hornady makes a crap ton of it.
- MV - I can go with 120@3100FPS or 140 @ 2700FPS my choice if I want the barrell to last longer or not
- Recoil is not as hard as the 6.5x47
- I like the idea of a compressed round but with a minimal velocity @ 2850FPS
- Savage Arms started selling them which is really cheap
- I want a rifle that not a lot of shooters have (at the time) so I picked up a 6.5CM
Click to expand...

Same reasons for me.
 
think the first response pretty well summed everything up. Everyone else just gives you more to think about.

I went with .260 after reading zak's article and considering brass availability.

nowadays, just throw a dart and pick one really.
 
LCDR JGB said:
You have the 6.5CM and 260 mixed up here right? You're meaning to say that 260 is ~ $2400 and 6.5CM is $1780, right?
Click to expand...


No, perhaps I didn't quite explain what I was looking at there:

You're going to take the cost of buying a barrel and installing it. For me the cost was just the price of the barrel as I've been doing my own barrels for a while and I don't consider my time factored on any of it as a hobby.

Cost of barrel is a real value
Cost of ammo that you're going to shove through that barrel before it fails and you need to buy another one :

6.5CM @ 4600rd + $300 for barrel ~ $2400
260 Rem @ 3200rd + $300 for barrel ~ $1780



Perhaps not the clearest way to look at it, so overall this is what I'm talking about in cost per round:

6.5CM and 260 Rem are within 1cent per round on my costing spreadsheet without barrel life factored in. When I factor in the cost of the barrel (and my "free" install) I have more like a nickel difference (doesn't seem like much but that nickel difference on the life of a barrel just paid for more than half of the new blank)

When you factor in the pricing for a whole install as well, threaded and capped muzzle (but I'm not a fan of fluting) then we're really talking about $650 for an install and blank. Now we're up to about 8 cents/rd fired more expensive on the 260.

So, 8 cents per round = $80/1k or lets say you want to chase it out to 2 barrels in the 65CM and 3 barrels in the 260 (the crossover point) which is about 9000rds.

This process took me a shade under 2 years to verify by shooting every single round but after doing that with my own barrels I decided that the price difference and the now readily available brass for 65CM will mean that I won't switch back to a 260. Those that have a 260 and are heavily invested in brass/dies/etc. probably won't pencil out the difference over just sticking to the 260. If you're starting from scratch the results that I've seen are biased towards the 6.5CM
 
Interesting analysis, Josh.

The uncontrolled variables here are in the barrels themselves (hardness, chamber geometry, bore diameter, bore-groove area ratio, etc) and how you used them.

Not saying there is no merit to your conclusions, but I have a hard time reconciling ~40% better barrel life between two (nearly identical) cartridges.

I'd love to buy into the sharp shoulder/long neck "throat-saver" effect, but I'm not sure I'm there yet.
 
Yep, those are most certainly things that factor in to the deal. To make an attempt at some of the variables the next 3 barrels that I have coming for the 65 are

Same contour
Same blank length
Same twist
Same maker from the same piece of bar

Previously they were the same contour, blank length, and twist but the barrels were ordered at different times from the maker so I have no conclusion on the lot number of the steel.

My use on them is pretty abusive, but I have not just loaded up everything and shot them all in the course of a week just to burn the components and run the issue to ground.
 
Cool. That's a scientific-method minded guy for you!

I recently ordered all the tooling I need to cut 6.5mm and 7mm Super LR chambers, so somewhere down the road, I can anecdotally add my take to the "sharp shoulder/long neck throat saver" effect.
 
Speaking of 6.5mm, anyone know where i can find some 140 Amax or 139 scenar bullets in stock. PV, midway, natchez, my normal go tos are all out of stock.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
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