Is something going on in Ukraine?

BCP

Lt. Colonel
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Dec 4, 2008
    7,548
    2,726
    121
    AZ: Land of wind, dirt and angry old people
    I gave it what, 10 days when I mentioned it earlier?

    Shit, its already happening on Day 4.

    It's also been confirmed in multiple places that the Russians did not find it necessary to have a large logistical plan for the assault. Wow. I should play the lottery or something. Also hearing a lot of the captured soldiers are totally surprised there was even fighting as they were told they would only be fighting minimal anti Russian militia and would otherwise be welcomed as liberators.

    So other than not having air superiority, not having your assault elements be anywhere near each other to maneuver on the enemy, running out of supplies and not even getting into Kiev (who Im still not even sure had an actual plan as to how to defend it) what else can they fuck up?


    I gave it two days before they started looting, it's day 4-5? and I haven't seen videos of them running down the road with armloads of toilet paper yet.
     

    BCP

    Lt. Colonel
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Dec 4, 2008
    7,548
    2,726
    121
    AZ: Land of wind, dirt and angry old people
    I wish we had a translation

    There's a translation in the comments, the Russians say they've broke down/run out of gas and the Ukrainians offer to drive them back to the border. Then the Russians ask for news about the war and the Ukrainians tell them "Ukraine is winning". Everybody laughs and they drive off.
     

    rlsmith1

    Legalize Freedom
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 1, 2019
    1,588
    1,304
    Midwest
    - Armored/mobile warfare has changed forever as the #1 threat to them is no longer air or a MBT but instead, some beet farmer Slav squatting in a bush with a javelin.

    - This is what it looks like when a populace, even local, says we re fighting you so go fuck yourself. This is also why it is important to not listen to any outside media or otherwise, because according to them, you should have all died already. I’m sure our shit tier .gov is indirectly being taught a lesson that ‘fighting’ areas that don’t agree with you and you escalate threatening them and more; shit isn’t going to be anywhere near as easy as you think.
    How would you say Slav in bush with javelin compares to haji on roof with RPG? My thoughts below…
    - RPGs are more readily available (looks like javelins are starting to circulate though)
    - Javelins are much more precise. If you get shot at with one it’s probably gonna be a bad time (same for RPG but it’s older tech and not as accurate)
    - 1 javelin = 5 RPGs ?


    Finally, if an invading force ran out of gas and I drove by, I don’t think I would leave them laughing (or standing). Goes to show the dynamic of this whole situation
     

    HousePlant

    Major Hide Member
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Jan 16, 2020
    1,316
    1,104
    - Armored/mobile warfare has changed forever as the #1 threat to them is no longer air or a MBT but instead, some beet farmer Slav squatting in a bush with a javelin.

    - This is what it looks like when a populace, even local, says we re fighting you so go fuck yourself. This is also why it is important to not listen to any outside media or otherwise, because according to them, you should have all died already. I’m sure our shit tier .gov is indirectly being taught a lesson that ‘fighting’ areas that don’t agree with you and you escalate threatening them and more; shit isn’t going to be anywhere near as easy as you think.

    Modern day techno-equipped militaries have proven that they aren't good at efficiently fighting guerilla fighters (that is, when politicians are involved). Ukraine is basically fighting as such and that's smart because there's a politician (and KGB spy, not military realist) behind this.

    Ukraine are scrappy as fuck and I like it... a lot. Still have a hard time believing they can truly beat Russia back without a western military force injection, but the mix of the "Go Fuck Yourself" on the radio and Ukraine's president not running like a coward are winning hearts and minds.

    Interestingly, while essentially nobody powerful (except maybe China... as they feel it out) was supportive of Russia's incursion, it seems Putin has perhaps unexpectedly earned himself the novel threat of being skinned alive in the global geopolitical dance -- and potentially at home. Inasmuch as he is justifying this war with claims of eliminating Nazism, he is being classed in the same group as Hitler. And that won't work out well for him.

    I strongly believe the EU/NATO/Biden Admin was surprised Ukraine has lasted this long and actually has been putting the hurt on Russia. That's somewhat understandable considering the vastly uneven odds. But perhaps "The West" has underestimated the strength and passionate influence of the human desire for freedom from aristocracy, tyranny, and indirect democracy (the Russian form). Sadly this is likely because they have spent the past two years trying to strip away freedoms in the name of the illusion of safety. But perhaps this war will remind those in power who they work for. Perhaps this war will finally inform the EU that they cannot have their social safety nets on the backs of the American military's protection.

    I'm not sure sanctions are working NOW but if they are left in place after this is all over (not getting my hopes up), they will absolutely destroy Putin's power and severely harm Russia (not without consequence to the rest of the western world, no doubt). Overtly, in Russia, it's not a conspiracy to think that he is killed by his own if he fails (if the cost of this outweighs the benefits, which is more and more likely). And if the poker game is played just right, the west can influence Mother Russia further in the direction of a true Republic, which is what Russia needs, as a necessity for the sanctions to be lifted. I don't think we could sanction China into submission, but Russia isn't manufacturing everything... it's a petro state.
     

    mcameron

    Two Star General
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 17, 2011
    7,050
    20,496
    Finally, if an invading force ran out of gas and I drove by, I don’t think I would leave them laughing (or standing). Goes to show the dynamic of this whole situation
    i was thinking that myself...kind of stupid to just be hanging around without a care in the world...especially considering Ukraine is just handing out guns to anyone that wants one and Molotov cocktails arent hard to make.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: rlsmith1

    rlsmith1

    Legalize Freedom
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 1, 2019
    1,588
    1,304
    Midwest
    Then add in the difficulty to verify any photo let alone video.

    For all I know it was an abandoned vehicle (maybe did run out of fuel) and some Ukrainians were posing as soldiers and said the right things for the camera
     
    • Like
    Reactions: ken226

    Sako man

    profesional dilettante
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Sep 7, 2012
    2,659
    2,190
    Galactic Sector ZZ9 Alpha Xray Plural.
    By being a willing pawn Ukraine has created the biggest threat to freedom ever.
    It sure seems this way doesn't it! And It's all pretty terrible, and a lot of people are going to die because of the vast corruption.

    Let's not kid ourselves, Ukraine is stuck in the middle and it's government complicit. Putin is the last guy you would ever want to fuck with, he is a brutal killer, and an expert political assassin. And on the other side, and historically, America has always used other countries then left them in the rubble when it just became too unpopular back home to support said country. Ukraine will be no different, thousands will die, possibly millions if there is one mis-step. The best we can do is pray for a quick ending.

    Lastly, I don't get the feeling that Putin is nation building, this is something else, and I think anyone saying that he will push into other countries is towing the MSM narrative.
     

    Sako man

    profesional dilettante
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Sep 7, 2012
    2,659
    2,190
    Galactic Sector ZZ9 Alpha Xray Plural.
    Conspiracy theory or fact? Does Russia need a WuHan 2.0 on it's borders, me thinks not.

     

    Seymour Fish

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Oct 30, 2018
    437
    202
    Russia already killed seven million Ukrainians in the 30s through destruction of their economy.......Putin isn't going to have that anchor cast around his neck again.
    But which “strain “ of Russian. Devil is in the details
     
    • Wow
    Reactions: Sako man

    Seymour Fish

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Oct 30, 2018
    437
    202
    While everyone is watching this right hand magic, no one pays attention to the left.

    It has erased all other headlines from the radar.

    If they keep it going they can keep people from concerning themselves with the ending of the US truck protest.
    And the Reset, no cash, all digital, and oops you are on the Hide = your bank account is zero. War > Crash banking systems already on life-support > boom, done.
     

    RUTGERS95

    Private
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Nov 2, 2009
    4,086
    4,572
    NJ
    There's a translation in the comments, the Russians say they've broke down/run out of gas and the Ukrainians offer to drive them back to the border. Then the Russians ask for news about the war and the Ukrainians tell them "Ukraine is winning". Everybody laughs and they drive off.
    funny but the ukrainians should have had guns and put them 6 feet under. I just can't comprehend the nicety there. They invaded, shoot the fkers, get fuel and take their equipment and use against the Russians.
     

    Mr.Kirk

    Staff Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Nov 8, 2008
    1,950
    8,240
    Texas
    Did Putin get to the 11 or so US Biolabs in Ukraine? If he can stomp the NWO Nazis effectively, then he can roll right back home no need to hang around. I think the WEF are the ones who “fucked around and are now finding out”.
    I’ve been wondering what the russians must actually be doing too
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Sako man

    Mr.Kirk

    Staff Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Nov 8, 2008
    1,950
    8,240
    Texas
    Modern day techno-equipped militaries have proven that they aren't good at efficiently fighting guerilla fighters (that is, when politicians are involved). Ukraine is basically fighting as such and that's smart because there's a politician (and KGB spy, not military realist) behind this.

    Ukraine are scrappy as fuck and I like it... a lot. Still have a hard time believing they can truly beat Russia back without a western military force injection, but the mix of the "Go Fuck Yourself" on the radio and Ukraine's president not running like a coward are winning hearts and minds.

    Interestingly, while essentially nobody powerful (except maybe China... as they feel it out) was supportive of Russia's incursion, it seems Putin has perhaps unexpectedly earned himself the novel threat of being skinned alive in the global geopolitical dance -- and potentially at home. Inasmuch as he is justifying this war with claims of eliminating Nazism, he is being classed in the same group as Hitler. And that won't work out well for him.

    I strongly believe the EU/NATO/Biden Admin was surprised Ukraine has lasted this long and actually has been putting the hurt on Russia. That's somewhat understandable considering the vastly uneven odds. But perhaps "The West" has underestimated the strength and passionate influence of the human desire for freedom from aristocracy, tyranny, and indirect democracy (the Russian form). Sadly this is likely because they have spent the past two years trying to strip away freedoms in the name of the illusion of safety. But perhaps this war will remind those in power who they work for. Perhaps this war will finally inform the EU that they cannot have their social safety nets on the backs of the American military's protection.

    I'm not sure sanctions are working NOW but if they are left in place after this is all over (not getting my hopes up), they will absolutely destroy Putin's power and severely harm Russia (not without consequence to the rest of the western world, no doubt). Overtly, in Russia, it's not a conspiracy to think that he is killed by his own if he fails (if the cost of this outweighs the benefits, which is more and more likely). And if the poker game is played just right, the west can influence Mother Russia further in the direction of a true Republic, which is what Russia needs, as a necessity for the sanctions to be lifted. I don't think we could sanction China into submission, but Russia isn't manufacturing everything... it's a petro state.
    I have been wondering how much putin can fumble this before he is murdered by whoever feels the money he has cost was theirs.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Vodoun daVinci

    jbailey

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jul 27, 2010
    2,230
    1,075
    Arlington VA
    How would you say Slav in bush with javelin compares to haji on roof with RPG? My thoughts below…
    - RPGs are more readily available (looks like javelins are starting to circulate though)
    - Javelins are much more precise. If you get shot at with one it’s probably gonna be a bad time (same for RPG but it’s older tech and not as accurate)
    - 1 javelin = 5 RPGs ?


    Finally, if an invading force ran out of gas and I drove by, I don’t think I would leave them laughing (or standing). Goes to show the dynamic of this whole situation
    I would say a modern man-portable ATGM (Javelin, NLAW) is worth a whole lot more than RPG for two reasons:

    - RPG requires a good bit of skill, to aim and actually hit target. Javelin's computer does all that work, so the Slav in the bush can achieve as many hits as the US Army Sgt Major who has been using the weapon for 15+ years.

    - Javelin lethality quite a bit more advanced. It attacks from the top, where the armor is weakest, it has a dual penetrator charge, to defend any reactive, forward armor (maybe why those silly roof cages do not offer any protection). The missile has a range over 2000m. Finally, the command unit has a magnified thermal sight which allows the operator to use it as a recon system as well as a weapon. RPG offers none of these capabilities.

    For these reasons, If your opponent is armored/mechanized, I would take 1 Javelin or NLAW over 5 RPGs

    RE running out of fuel and Ukrainians recovering the vehicles. I enjoyed this picture of an farmer using his tractor to recover a Stela-10 SAM system.

    FMo1ppBX0AYg9Gj
     

    GreenGO Juan

    African or European Swallow?
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 27, 2021
    3,746
    4,621
    Milky Way Galaxy
    This seems more like a skirmish than an all out war/invasion. Kinda like a warning shot.

    Have not seen much modern Russian military equipment in any of the media filtering back. A lot of that was fake video. No heavy ariel bombardment, no cruise missile, artillery shelling. The Russians went harder in Syria in 2015.

    Looks more like a bitch slap than going for the jugular.
     

    babyguppy

    Major Hide Member
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 17, 2020
    2,361
    5,133
    Takeaways so far:

    - I am absolutely convinced that the EU, who showed their hand early with ‘not too many sanctions’ did not think Ukraine would put up a fight let alone actually put the hurt on Russia. They had fully committed to bitch out and let this run it’s course. Only when it looked like Ukraine could possibly wreck this invasion did they mobilize and talk about actual sanctions.

    - Absolutely no one cares about anything Biden says. Anywhere.

    - I’m surprised at the total ‘ran into a wall head first’ way this has gone. I had initially almost ceded the Donbus and SE region to the Russians as the separatists are based there as well as a blitz into Kiev to secure the airbase to then set off the 2nd phase that then attacked based how the Ukrainians reacted. Instead, let’s attack everything at the same time and get fucking nowhere has resulted. I’m still not sure if it’s because of shit Russian planning and execution or of Ukraine has found a way and went with it.

    - Armored/mobile warfare has changed forever as the #1 threat to them is no longer air or a MBT but instead, some beet farmer Slav squatting in a bush with a javelin.

    - This is what it looks like when a populace, even local, says we re fighting you so go fuck yourself. This is also why it is important to not listen to any outside media or otherwise, because according to them, you should have all died already. I’m sure our shit tier .gov is indirectly being taught a lesson that ‘fighting’ areas that don’t agree with you and you escalate threatening them and more; shit isn’t going to be anywhere near as easy as you think.
    ^ all true
    Putin hasn't unleashed full hell. Russia has a deep arsenal of nasty weapons he can break out. Will Putin go full Afghanistan and break out the yellow rain? What's Russia's name for VX gas? maybe some small but peaceful nuclear bombs. Time will tell.
    Putin could use the Father of all bombs on some cities if he wanted to.
    Edit - I believe Putin just wants to take out and replace the leadership with his people. Putin wants his own puppets.
     
    Last edited:

    Davo308

    Major Hide Member
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 18, 2019
    1,611
    4,162
    This seems more like a skirmish than an all out war/invasion. Kinda like a warning shot.

    Have not seen much modern Russian military equipment in any of the media filtering back. A lot of that was fake video. No heavy ariel bombardment, no cruise missile, artillery shelling. The Russians went harder in Syria in 2015.

    Looks more like a bitch slap than going for the jugular.

    I don't have a clear picture of whats going on there but some of the stories are too good to be true.

    Russia running out of fuel and munitions, Russian conscripts being captured and saying they were told its a training mission.

    Manpads decimating Russian fighter jets.

    Russia needing new AKs and ammo but it's months away.

    Ukraine is dominating but its Capitol is encircled.

    Russian special forces cant capture airfields but they can encircle the Capitol.

    So much does not add up.

    And we have a SOTU tommorow where apparently the narrative flip is Democrats defeated covid, we should return to "normal", and all get behind Ukraine.

    The whole thing stinks.
     

    theLBC

    Shiftless
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Jun 21, 2019
    29,213
    100,274
    I don't have a clear picture of whats going on there but some of the stories are too good to be true.

    Russia running out of fuel and munitions, Russian conscripts being captured and saying they were told its a training mission.

    Manpads decimating Russian fighter jets.

    Russia needing new AKs and ammo but it's months away.

    Ukraine is dominating but its Capitol is encircled.

    Russian special forces cant capture airfields but they can encircle the Capitol.

    So much does not add up.

    And we have a SOTU tommorow where apparently the narrative flip is Democrats defeated covid, we should return to "normal", and all get behind Ukraine.

    The whole thing stinks.
    unless they expect putin to just give up, they are sending civilians to get slaughtered. for what?
     

    ForgeValley

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Jan 22, 2018
    1,973
    3,064
    WNC
    This seems more like a skirmish than an all out war/invasion. Kinda like a warning shot.

    Have not seen much modern Russian military equipment in any of the media filtering back. A lot of that was fake video. No heavy ariel bombardment, no cruise missile, artillery shelling. The Russians went harder in Syria in 2015.

    Looks more like a bitch slap than going for the jugular.



    I think Putin's goal here is not an invasion and occupation. His goal is a Ukraine that is not courting western favor and Nato membership.

    'Peace' talks are really 'this is what I need you to do or I take off the kid gloves' talks.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Sako man

    akmike47

    Rumpleforeskin King of the Poors
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 23, 2013
    8,431
    30,676
    Well, to be fair I didn't do it for you. I am just tired of being grouped in with the SEALs.
    “Well, to be fair I didn't do it for you.” ...well it was in response to a joke I made, so yes it kind of was lol. If that’s one of your big problems in life where you feel the need to post the forty-whatever time in several years to make a joke serious you got it pretty good.
     
    Last edited:

    NoDopes

    Old Salt
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Dec 6, 2020
    3,186
    5,999
    North Texas
    Well, to be fair I didn't do it for you. I am just tired of being grouped in with the SEALs.
    I mean... Is that an insult of some sort? I'd assume both SF and SEALs are pretty kick ass teams... Unless you are more upset at being grouped in with SOF in general?
    I'll admit, I wasn't aware of the distinct difference. For anybody else not aware, this was helpful.
     

    Hobo Hilton

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jun 4, 2011
    6,902
    6,139
    71
    Pacific Northwest
    Appearing that world wide companies with operations in Russia are posturing for conditions to worsen there. Production appears to be continuing, those without production / manufacturing seem to be shuttering their operations.

    Just one example:
     

    10ring'r

    Old, Fat, Grumpy, Gimpy and have no F's to give!
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Apr 9, 2019
    3,402
    5,515
    The Cold&Humid North
    It sure seems this way doesn't it! And It's all pretty terrible, and a lot of people are going to die because of the vast corruption.

    Let's not kid ourselves, Ukraine is stuck in the middle and it's government complicit. Putin is the last guy you would ever want to fuck with, he is a brutal killer, and an expert political assassin. And on the other side, and historically, America has always used other countries then left them in the rubble when it just became too unpopular back home to support said country. Ukraine will be no different, thousands will die, possibly millions if there is one mis-step. The best we can do is pray for a quick ending.

    Lastly, I don't get the feeling that Putin is nation building, this is something else, and I think anyone saying that he will push into other countries is towing the MSM narrative.
    I feel the above is correct. Putin wants to send a big FU to the NWO/WEF. By not letting Mother Russia be encircled by UN forces/nations. He obviously wants that southern port, so, he can close off that entry point, and have a better tactile advantage from any and all aggressors.
    I did not graduate from West Point, so, have no schooling in such things, but, I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express a time or three. Mac;)
     

    Davo308

    Major Hide Member
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 18, 2019
    1,611
    4,162
    unless they expect putin to just give up, they are sending civilians to get slaughtered. for what?

    I don't even know about "civilians".

    Ukraine is supposed to have a military followed by a militia.

    I know they have a military because I saw them clearing roads and gathering spent explosives EOD stuff.

    I know some civilians have training and military arms they bring with them from home, a militia.

    And I know some with no training, even basic marksmanship are out there too.
     

    Davo308

    Major Hide Member
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 18, 2019
    1,611
    4,162
    Man pads cant take out high altitude bombers. That requires real surface to air missile‘s.

    Don't disagree but a Russian fighter jet that can cruise the treetops at supersonic speeds is also less susceptible.

    Helos and ground attack jets more so.
     

    7.62willdo

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Don't disagree but a Russian fighter jet that can cruise the treetops at supersonic speeds is also less susceptible.

    Helos and ground attack jets more so.
    The stinger is a pretty fast little weapon not many fighters can out run it….. and at “ supersonic speeds” and on the deck running is about your only option except for chaff chaff chaff……..
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Davo308

    NewsShooter

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Sep 14, 2011
    1,237
    546
    62
    Russia has no interest in getting into any war in Ukraine or staging a false flag of any kind. There is also no troop concentration that would indicate any troop levels above those they typically have had in the last couple of years, even according to Ukrainian intel troops levels near the border are actually lower than they have been for the last couple of years. Some of these troops media is touting are fucking 400kilometers away from the Ukrainian border.

    Guess that wasn't an accurate assessment now was it?
     

    Ric O'shay

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 12, 2018
    925
    2,120
    The misinformation makes it hard to develop a decent opinion on this shit show. The Snake Island thing. Reports all killed, reports all taken POW. Kind of a big difference.
     

    TurboTrout

    Two Star General
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Oct 30, 2020
    6,013
    6,420
    East Coast
    I gave it what, 10 days when I mentioned it earlier?

    Shit, its already happening on Day 4.

    It's also been confirmed in multiple places that the Russians did not find it necessary to have a large logistical plan for the assault. Wow. I should play the lottery or something. Also hearing a lot of the captured soldiers are totally surprised there was even fighting as they were told they would only be fighting minimal anti Russian militia and would otherwise be welcomed as liberators.

    So other than not having air superiority, not having your assault elements be anywhere near each other to maneuver on the enemy, running out of supplies and not even getting into Kiev (who Im still not even sure had an actual plan as to how to defend it) what else can they fuck up?


    I’m surprised they just stand around like that, why not light the guys up, have your local farm buddy bring you some diesel and score you a cool mil rig compliments of Putin
     

    rtB

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 29, 2019
    1,710
    4,544
    Payson, AZ
    I’m surprised they just stand around like that, why not light the guys up, have your local farm buddy bring you some diesel and score you a cool mil rig compliments of Putin
    Well it's sort of like Texas invading Oklahoma. Some fist fights at the football games, but mostly everyone would rather hang out and have some drinks.
     

    ChezJfrey

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 30, 2020
    259
    564
    Well it's sort of like Texas invading Oklahoma. Some fist fights at the football games, but mostly everyone would rather hang out and have some drinks.
    Yes. I think a factor some people are not considering, is that much of eastern Ukraine has Russian heritage, speak Russian. Add in the fact that the Ukraine government is a puppet of a foreign power, that is corrupted and funneling money to people like the Bidens, we also have to figure some of those Ukrainians are unhappy about that situation. Also, that same government has been persecuting and shelling factions that are opposed to this puppet government, and these people probably know this too.

    I think if we add that if they know these facts, it might be like if the Okies know that the invaders are going after the seat of government power, to unseat them, so they stop attacking some of my fellow Okies, then I might be stuck in a quandary; do I resist, or allow them, because my own government is a bunch of corrupt bastards....but then, I'm also conflicted, because these invaders will just install their own puppets...am I better or worse off? But I also want my own sovereignty. What to do? I can see how some might be conflicted.
     

    BytorJr

    Two Star General
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Nov 28, 2018
    5,171
    7,558
    And if the poker game is played just right, the west can influence Mother Russia further in the direction of a true Republic, which is what Russia needs, as a necessity for the sanctions to be lifted. I don't think we could sanction China into submission, but Russia isn't manufacturing everything... it's a petro state.
    hahaha...now THIS is funny. We cannot even operate as a Republic here in The United States of America, a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. Every day we read about more and more violations of Our Constitution. Biden, Bush 41, Bush 43, Klinton, obama, even Trump.
     

    TheGerman

    Oberleutnant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Jan 25, 2010
    10,485
    29,576
    the Westside
    So my oldest daughter who is 7, is asking about war and why it happens and so forth because of the Ukrainian/Russian ordeal. What would you guys tell her?

    Tell her war is a surprise quiz that checks exactly what's going on as far as the countries/people involved as well as tests them on what they actually are as opposed to what they tell everyone.

    Russia is doing Russia things. Not surprisingly, its the exact shit they've basically told us they were going to do for a decade. In true Western fashion, we ignored it and then played dumb when it happened due to 'how can this have happened?!?'. In true Russian fashion, they had a decade of planning for it, and still managed to make it look like an idea from Friday's pub crawl.

    The EU countries are nothing more than a collection of fair weather cucks. Not until Ukraine actually fought back effectively, did their stance change from 'lets not do anything to upset Russia' to deploying forces. Ironically, those forces were only deployed to protect an area to the west of Ukraine, should the Russians make it through. This is literally all you need to know about these people.

    The US is doing the right thing in finally staying the fuck out of something happening somewhere else. Under normal circumstances, we would have easily have had 100 press conferences about how we need to 'help restore democracy' and whatever other dumb ideological bullshit we normally say before going to war in places that don't want us there nor is there any benefit to fighting. Ironically, the only reason we're actually doing the right thing is because our 'president' has completely fucked everything up until this point, has an approval rating of like 4, and doesn't show himself because even he has realized that everyone, everywhere, knows that he is a senile fucking retard.

    Ukraine has surprised us all. They have definitely surprised the Russian forces. They've surprised the EU, who smugly thought that Russia would roll through before they 'could do anything to help'. They've surprised the US and pretty much everyone in not relying on them in order to fight back, let alone effectively. They've also surprised me in that, a country known to basically be the most corrupt money laundering operation in the world, actually used more of that money than I would have thought, to actually buy weapons and equipment as opposed to Estonian hookers and gaudy fucking yachts with golden toilets or something.
     

    GreenGO Juan

    African or European Swallow?
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 27, 2021
    3,746
    4,621
    Milky Way Galaxy
    Don't disagree but a Russian fighter jet that can cruise the treetops at supersonic speeds is also less susceptible.

    Helos and ground attack jets more so.
    Making an assumption. Assuming Ukraine’s SAM systems and air force have been neutralized. There is no reason fly low. Above 25,000ft you are untouchable to AAA, MANPADS and small arms. It also wastes gobs of fuel.

    I have not seen proof of continuous air born bombardment, which Russians are capable of. That was proven in Syria by relatively small force of Russia aircraft. Russia struck Ukraine hard day one, took out the big boy threats and backed off. Have not seen any evidence of Su-24, Tu-22, Tu-95, Tu-160s slinging hate.

    Russia appears to be taking a bit of a white glove approach. Power in major cities is still on.
    6CDC7F61-6D72-411B-BA61-CEEFA8D82068.jpeg

    Almost like they’re trying to overthrow or get a capitulation from the Zelenski government without destroying the country.

    Seems more like old school siege tactics, than full scale fight to death war.
     

    AleksanderSuave

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Jul 26, 2020
    452
    410
    Detroit, MI
    Yes. I think a factor some people are not considering, is that much of eastern Ukraine has Russian heritage, speak Russian. Add in the fact that the Ukraine government is a puppet of a foreign power, that is corrupted and funneling money to people like the Bidens, we also have to figure some of those Ukrainians are unhappy about that situation. Also, that same government has been persecuting and shelling factions that are opposed to this puppet government, and these people probably know this too.

    I think if we add that if they know these facts, it might be like if the Okies know that the invaders are going after the seat of government power, to unseat them, so they stop attacking some of my fellow Okies, then I might be stuck in a quandary; do I resist, or allow them, because my own government is a bunch of corrupt bastards....but then, I'm also conflicted, because these invaders will just install their own puppets...am I better or worse off? But I also want my own sovereignty. What to do? I can see how some might be conflicted.

    Its more complex than just eastern ukraine. Southern ukraine for the most is primarily russian speaking. There's likely both family and friends throughout the country for the invading russians. Shevchenko park in odessa has a monument and tomb for russian war heroes who defended and liberated a major part of ukraine (including crimea) in WWII during the Dnieper–Carpathian offensive.

    Regarding government corruption, Zelensky is a far stretch (and a step forward) from Poroschenko, who was caught on a recorded line with Biden (obama era), trading loan guarantees in exchange for Poroschenko getting rid of Ukraine's prosecutor general.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: RUTGERS95

    UKDslayer

    Private
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Jan 29, 2005
    9,649
    20,230
    Texas
    Fuck that fuck with the Brandenburg Gate.

    Germany has a lot of balls doing that. Fuck them too.

    Ukrainians welcomed them with bread and salt and got fire in return.
    Fortunately just colored lights. Giving them ability to switch sides at any time.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: c1steve

    theLBC

    Shiftless
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Jun 21, 2019
    29,213
    100,274
    Its more complex than just eastern ukraine. Southern ukraine for the most is primarily russian speaking. There's likely both family and friends throughout the country for the invading russians. Shevchenko park in odessa has a monument and tomb for russian war heroes who defended and liberated a major part of ukraine (including crimea) in WWII during the Dnieper–Carpathian offensive.

    Regarding government corruption, Zelensky is a far stretch (and a step forward) from Poroschenko, who was caught on a recorded line with Biden (obama era), trading loan guarantees in exchange for Poroschenko getting rid of Ukraine's prosecutor general.
    but did he reinstate the prosecutor and go after burisma and the bidens? if not, why not?