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Is something going on in Ukraine?

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#8,951
babyguppy said:
I read a while back, - when India was testing one of their GPS missiles, USA blinked the GPS system and the Indian missile missed its target.
I'm sure someone running the USA gps had a good laugh at that one.
Click to expand...
Back during the Falklands War, the US altered the settings for the Loran systems and sent the Argie submarine(s) off into the mid-atlantic somehow. Their captains had gotten so used to electronic navigation that they no longer knew how to confirm their position with star shots from the periscopes.

After that... they sent all their captains and navigation officers to the USA to get lessons on how to use their periscopes properly.

Argies had surplus US Subs for Falklands... US knew exactly how to send them in the wrong direction.

Favor to Maggie!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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#8,954
'Aid' to Ukraine so far at about equal to 100% of Ukrainan GDP for 2022

The obligations of Western countries to Ukraine – already provided and promised assistance – by the beginning of October amounted to $ 126 billion, according to published data from the Kiel Institute of World Economy. This is almost equal to the country's GDP for 2022, which is estimated by the IMF at $130 billion.

Meanwhile, Eastern Europe's stash of soviet era armor and ammo has run dry so shopping for Ukraine is now happening in Africa and Asia
These are being flown to Poland . Imagine the shipping cost when you are flying one or two vehicles max per flight.

photo_2022-10-17_10-42-43.jpg
 
#8,956
sirhrmechanic said:
Since the US Controls the GPS system... can't we just shut it off for certain parts of the planet?

Or are we saving that for later?

Because without a GPS system, these fancy pants drones become useless.

And also, every Prius driver and pilot under the age of 45 drives or flies into a river.

Just 'sayin.

Sirhr
Click to expand...
Navigation in a GPS denied environment is in play with drones now. AI and other technologies enable this.
 
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#8,957
sirhrmechanic said:
Since the US Controls the GPS system... can't we just shut it off for certain parts of the planet?

Or are we saving that for later?

Because without a GPS system, these fancy pants drones become useless.

And also, every Prius driver and pilot under the age of 45 drives or flies into a river.

Just 'sayin.

Sirhr
Click to expand...
From wrecks found in Saudi Arabia years ago Shaheds131 have been upgraded to work in GPS-restricted airspace. Not to mention that besides US GPS , there are GLONASS,GALILEO,BAIDU....systems with coverage over Ukraine.

''At the same time, an unpleasant surprise was found, a system was added to GPS guidance that prevents GPS signals from being replaced by electronic warfare devices, but, judging by the description, it does not prevent interference. Also, a primitive inertial system is installed on the drone, which allows it to maintain an approximate course and height if satellite navigation is prohibited.
That is, when the drone flies into an area where GPS signals are suppressed, the drone begins to be blown away by the wind, and it also runs into errors of the inertial system itself. Depending on the speed and direction of the wind, the deviation will be1- 5% of the distance covered without GPS. On a section of 5 km, 5% will give an error of 250 meters. Obviously, when the GPS signal is received again, the drone will adjust its flight. ''
 
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#8,959
Mr.BR said:
'Aid' to Ukraine so far at about equal to 100% of Ukrainan GDP for 2022

The obligations of Western countries to Ukraine – already provided and promised assistance – by the beginning of October amounted to $ 126 billion, according to published data from the Kiel Institute of World Economy. This is almost equal to the country's GDP for 2022, which is estimated by the IMF at $130 billion.

Meanwhile, Eastern Europe's stash of soviet era armor and ammo has run dry so shopping for Ukraine is now happening in Africa and Asia
These are being flown to Poland . Imagine the shipping cost when you are flying one or two vehicles max per flight.

View attachment 7978463
Click to expand...

I just was
--" Imagine the shipping cost when you are flying one or two vehicles max per flight"
that's not a short flight either
 
#8,960
Mr.BR said:
From wrecks found in Saudi Arabia years ago Shaheds131 have been upgraded to work in GPS-restricted airspace. Not to mention that besides US GPS , there are GLONASS,GALILEO,BAIDU....systems with coverage over Ukraine.

''At the same time, an unpleasant surprise was found, a system was added to GPS guidance that prevents GPS signals from being replaced by electronic warfare devices, but, judging by the description, it does not prevent interference. Also, a primitive inertial system is installed on the drone, which allows it to maintain an approximate course and height if satellite navigation is prohibited.
That is, when the drone flies into an area where GPS signals are suppressed, the drone begins to be blown away by the wind, and it also runs into errors of the inertial system itself. Depending on the speed and direction of the wind, the deviation will be1- 5% of the distance covered without GPS. On a section of 5 km, 5% will give an error of 250 meters. Obviously, when the GPS signal is received again, the drone will adjust its flight. ''
Click to expand...
If this is the best they have their technology sucks. You can achieve that with a Kestrel and a ballistics app. Their deviation will be more than 5% if the drone speed is too slow, the distance long and the winds lateral enough.
 
#8,961
Mr.BR said:
'Aid' to Ukraine so far at about equal to 100% of Ukrainan GDP for 2022

The obligations of Western countries to Ukraine – already provided and promised assistance – by the beginning of October amounted to $ 126 billion, according to published data from the Kiel Institute of World Economy. This is almost equal to the country's GDP for 2022, which is estimated by the IMF at $130 billion.

Meanwhile, Eastern Europe's stash of soviet era armor and ammo has run dry so shopping for Ukraine is now happening in Africa and Asia
These are being flown to Poland . Imagine the shipping cost when you are flying one or two vehicles max per flight.

View attachment 7978463
Click to expand...

There has been non-stop mil and commercial cargo traffic into Rzeszów since the war started. C17, C5, 747, etc. Total flights I'd guess are in the thousands this year.

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/ (click on the "U" for mil traffic). Eastern Europe has gone dark again for milair traffic. They do this occasionally.

It's almost like the buildup in England before D-Day. Wonder if we also have a fake First United States Army Group?

en.m.wikipedia.org

Operation Fortitude - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

My guess is 98% certainty NATO goes into Ukraine. Spent all that effort moving shit into place, and the Pentagon gloryhounds want to use it. Of course it will all be left there for New Ukraine to defend herself, so everything will need replaced and every 0-6 and up can get cush MIC gigs as a thank you

Not that I'm cynical...
 
#8,962
babyguppy said:
I just was
--" Imagine the shipping cost when you are flying one or two vehicles max per flight"
that's not a short flight either
Click to expand...

I'm thinking of the hours on every airframe in inventory. We're wearing out everything, will need to replace all but the newest planes. What a coincidental windfall for Boeing, Lockhart et al.
 
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#8,963
Cardboard55 said:
I'm thinking of the hours on every airframe in inventory. We're wearing out everything, will need to replace all but the newest planes. What a coincidental windfall for Boeing, Lockhart et al.
Click to expand...
good thing Unicorn farts are free, because we won't have any fuel left in the SPR to fly those planes; when the Dems are done draining it
 
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#8,964
GreenGO Juan said:
I personally don’t believe Russia is running out of short range ballistic missiles. I believe its a financial cost/risk/effect decision, especially if it’s causing Ukraine to fire multiple missiles to counter.

A Shahed136 as an example cost about $20,000. Has long range over 1000km, accurate and around a 100lbs warhead.

No need to put a multi million dollar asset at Risk. Dont need a sledgehammer for a finishing nail.

But I hear what you are saying, no AD and Heavy bombers doing their thing would not be something I’d wanna be on the receiving end of.
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One of the many ways to degrade an adversary’s A2AD is through depletion. So if that is what the Russians are doing one has to wonder what are they setting conditions for? Maybe “carpet bombing” or could it be for something else? Have you heard anything about Russian forces massing in Belarus?
 
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#8,965
232593 said:
One of the many ways to degrade an adversary’s A2AD is through depletion. So if that is what the Russians are doing one has to wonder what are they setting conditions for? Maybe “carpet bombing” or could it be for something else? Have you heard anything about Russian forces massing in Belarus?
Click to expand...
Nothing specific. But the Russians are definitely working with and updating Belarus’s military which is very far behind the times. I believe part of the strikes that happened on October 10th, were launched out of Belarus. Those in the north.

I think there is a fair point to be made in the depletion of Ukraine air defense weapons with mass drone/missiles swarms. What does it point to specifically. IDK. I really don’t think Russia wants to risk its strategic assets when it doesn’t need to.
 
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#8,966
babyguppy said:
good thing Unicorn farts are free, because we won't have any fuel left in the SPR to fly those planes; when the Dems are done draining it
Click to expand...
Yeah I can’t believe especially now that they’re continuing to drain our strategic reserve. They just announced closing a massive fuel depot in Hawaii too.

They’re literally teetering on starting World War III while choking all of our War time energy supplies. We are being led by fucking morons.
 
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#8,968
lariat said:
If this is the best they have their technology sucks. You can achieve that with a Kestrel and a ballistics app. Their deviation will be more than 5% if the drone speed is too slow, the distance long and the winds lateral enough.
Click to expand...
I think we are at the stage where everyone is preparing for the long haul, so most bang for the buck vs the fanciest tech you can get and given the potential for a wider conflict, neither US ,EU or Russia is willing to deplete its stock in Ukraine .

These drones are practical replacements for cruise missiles at cca 50:1 cost ratio, but more importantly, can be built in large numbers with off the shelf components freely available on world markets. , cruise missiles can't or more accurately production lines for them are not set up for wartime production.


''Arestovich : Russia can continue attacking with Iranian drones for 2-3 months
"They have found the key to our air defense, which is to force us to deplete entire SAM missile stock in the fight against drones. The first batch of UAVs was 300, the second batch is much, much more. Total 2400 pieces. At this rate, even 100 per day we have a month of active raids," Zelensky's representative said.''



Lots of interesting drone and counter-drone projects using hobby-grade components are being developed on both sides.


Ukrainan 'interceptor drone' - for use against quadcopters .
311382910_3388886888093580_5982298155276813414_n.jpg


medium_2022-10-12-58c29dd7bc.jpg

medium_2022-10-12-ba0dca0c3a.jpg
 
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#8,969
GreenGO Juan said:
Yeah I can’t believe especially now that they’re continuing to drain our strategic reserve. They just announced closing a massive fuel depot in Hawaii too.

They’re literally teetering on starting World War III while choking all of our War time energy supplies. We are being led by fucking morons.
Click to expand...

Looks like the CHICOM assets and saboteurs inside our govt are at work.
 
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#8,970
Mr.BR said:
I think we are at the stage where everyone is preparing for the long haul, so most bang for the buck vs the fanciest tech you can get and given the potential for a wider conflict, neither US ,EU or Russia is willing to deplete its stock in Ukraine .

These drones are practical replacements for cruise missiles at cca 50:1 cost ratio, but more importantly, can be built in large numbers with off the shelf components freely available on world markets. , cruise missiles can't or more accurately production lines for them are not set up for wartime production.



Lots of interesting drone and counter-drone projects using hobby-grade components are being developed on both sides.


Ukrainan 'interceptor drone' - for use against quadcopters .
View attachment 7978542

View attachment 7978543
View attachment 7978544
Click to expand...
The are already ways to get around these. It’s a knock-off of an interceptor made by a Canadian company to address issues in Israel and other places. That kill range sucks. The left/right boundaries when incorporated with that distance is a no-go for fast drones, especially if the are flying a spline pattern.

Not trying to shit on your post at all. I don’t think most understand two critical things: technology is farther along than most realize and second, it is the evolving TTPs that make these things lethal, not so much what they are. Any fool can fly a drone with training. The ability to incorporate these assets into teams and missions is what makes the real difference. Take the box, think outside of it, and throw the box away. This is the Path forward of effective drone utilization.
 
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#8,972
Sako man said:
Well, this is what our focus should have been, and maintaining a strong presence in Taiwan. But the idiots have blown their load on Ukraine, so they can maintain their money laundering scheme.

Long term tech supremacy, and Taiwan are much more important strategic goals. However Clinton and Obama both sunk that ship with NAFTA and H1B Visas. So our manufacturing left to China, and remaining Tech was stolen by Chinese spies. If there is one party that has really weakened the country it's been progressives.
Click to expand...
It took two parties……,
 
#8,973
babyguppy said:
14m sounds like a good deal, if you can hit 700 targets. The video of those seem like they move awful slow, like a lawnmower in the sky. You think some old 50cals with radar would take them out.

US Air Force F-22 Raptor Fires Record-High 28 Missiles
- cost for 28 missiles =
fired off the full payload, worth approximately $14 million
taskandpurpose.com

An Air Force F-22 Raptor unit just fired off a record number of air-to-air missiles

F-22s usually only carry eight missiles for air-to-air missiles. These fighter squadrons pushed the fighter jet far beyond that.
taskandpurpose.com taskandpurpose.com

some of these older vehicles from the 80's could do the trick on the slow movers. Then you get into the, big enough to see, big enough to become a target

BOV-3 Self-propelled anti-aircraft vehicle​

Self-propelled%2Banti-aircraft%2Bgun%2BBOV-3.jpg


edit - how about this old one from the 1960's ?

ZSU-23-4 `Shylka`​

warsaw-poland-june-zsu-shylka-lightly-armored-soviet-self-propelled-radar-guided-anti-aircraft-weapon-system-spaag-museum-93894139.jpg
Click to expand...
When trained as a Dragon gunner the 23-4 was the highest of high value targets.

More than anything else it was the first you were supposed to go for.
 
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#8,976
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#8,977
Shooter McGavin said:
I don’t remember being taught that, got my C2 in 91. We couldn’t even fire a live one because of cost.
Click to expand...
ITS in 86, Fleet in 87.

Tanks mostly kill infantry so they wanted us to knock out anything that could take out something valuable like an aircraft.

Made sense because if Marine air was safe so were we.

Only ever fired one missile. At ITS for doing well. Forgot to put in ear plugs due to the excitement.

I think the noise made me black out. I buried it at probably the exact distance it armed.

My ears rang for a month or more.

Got to fire the SMAW too that was fun. Had ear plugs in with that one.
 
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#8,978
pmclaine said:
ITS in 86, Fleet in 87.

Tanks mostly kill infantry so they wanted us to knock out anything that could take out something valuable like an aircraft.

Made sense because if Marine air was safe so were we.

Only ever fired one missile. At ITS for doing well. Forgot to put in ear plugs due to the excitement.

I think the noise made me black out. I buried it at probably the exact distance it armed.

My ears rang for a month or more.

Got to fire the SMAW too that was fun. Had ear plugs in with that one.
Click to expand...
Makes sense. I was 11B, so our Air Support was A10s. Wish they would have stressed that to us Army folks.
 
#8,979
'Putin's Russia 'has become a fascist state' and must be stopped in Ukraine, says ex-diplomat who defected after the invasion"
 

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#8,980
GreenGO Juan said:
Is it necessary for them to use intercontinental bombers to hit targets a few hundred KM away? I wonder how many small drones you could buy with just fuel cost alone
Click to expand...
Apparently $20K/drone. Way cheaper that risking trained bodies and irreplaceable airframes. The SF/CIA tactical adaptations to this tactic would be super interesting to watch and geek out over. I know someone who reads this will be in that series of meetings. Enjoy the problem solving for me.
 
#8,983
Emerson0311 said:
Dammit, I was pissed I didn’t get TOWs or Dragons. Into the mud with a rifle I went…
Click to expand...

All I wanted to be was a rifleman. At MEPS when I saw my recruiter had me in an all encompassing Combat Arms package all I could think was I was going to be Artillery. Told them I wouldn't sign unless I was in the package that only included, rifleman, machinegunner, mortars, and assaultman/tows.

Told the Gunny at ITS I wanted Rifleman and he said tough shit ASVAB says rockets. So for being smart I got a rifle and two missiles and a tracker to carry in the mud.

Be thankful for little things.

In my case that was cadre from MSG Battalion that showed up in the squad Bay looking for volunteers.

I raised my hand and left the mud.
 
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#8,987
Sako man said:
We are seeing the paradigm shift in war, where it's costing 60 to 300k in anti air missles to shoot down $600 dollar drones carrying Russian hand grenades. And 15k drones that are large enough to level buildings.

This has become the drone war.


View attachment 7978902

View attachment 7978901
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one of the guys on the hide works with military lasers and anti drone stuff in the desert

been doing it for years
 
#8,991
Sako man said:
We are seeing the paradigm shift in war, where it's costing 60 to 300k in anti air missles to shoot down $600 dollar drones carrying Russian hand grenades. And 15k drones that are large enough to level buildings.

This has become the drone war.


View attachment 7978902
Click to expand...

This is a dry run for future wars where swarms of drones will trump everything else.
 
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#8,992
70,000, 1 lb drones, dropping down from 60,000 feet, self-guided, 1/2lb of C4, GPS, thermal guided, communicating with the other drones so each drone can pick a target. At that altitude, dropping in fast and zig zagging, going to be hard to stop them all. Just like a swarm of black flies in summer.
Self-guided bomblets basically.
edit - hell, when are they going to make them small enough with poison added to the tip of a stinger. Like bees, with poison. It's coming, if it's not already here.
 
#8,993
I watched the video. A few questionable things:
The submersible drone is diving to about 260'. The small boat and umbilical for that drone seem very small for a project like this.
The supposedly end of the pipe appears to be severed in a very clean cut. Not typical of an explosive charge (Underwater demolition). More typical of a "shaped charge" like used to cut off piling when decommissioning offshore platforms.
1666108346706.png

www.bbc.com

Nord Stream blast 'blew away 50 metres of pipe'

Danish police say explosions damaged two pipelines built to bring Russian gas to Germany.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
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#8,997
babyguppy said:
at what point are these going to be unleashed?

V-1 flying bomb​

Click to expand...
These are modern equivalents of V-1

Iranians seem to be getting lots of free PR in Ukraine, they are boasting that representatives from 22 countries enquired about the purchase of these drones in past week alone. UN arms embargo on Iran's weapons sales or purchases expired in 2020 so Iran can trade arms like anyone else. I imagine Shahed 136 and 131 will be selling like hot potatoes, any 3rd world country can now afford a budget cruise missile substitute with 1500+km range.

312013144_500202085476561_5563727087129697491_n.jpg



312162079_554171123376253_9089599361272745516_n.jpg

Everyone firing their guns in the air probably doing as much damage in Kiev as the drones

Kievan Iron Dome aka ''Железный кумпол''

 
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#8,998
pmclaine said:
All I wanted to be was a rifleman. At MEPS when I saw my recruiter had me in an all encompassing Combat Arms package all I could think was I was going to be Artillery. Told them I wouldn't sign unless I was in the package that only included, rifleman, machinegunner, mortars, and assaultman/tows.

Told the Gunny at ITS I wanted Rifleman and he said tough shit ASVAB says rockets. So for being smart I got a rifle and two missiles and a tracker to carry in the mud.

Be thankful for little things.

In my case that was cadre from MSG Battalion that showed up in the squad Bay looking for volunteers.

I raised my hand and left the mud.
Click to expand...
It’s funny how things work out. My Asvab was top end but the need wasn’t there I guess. I ended up in Iceland for a year because I volunteered for anything with a school.
 
#8,999
Hobo Hilton said:
I watched the video. A few questionable things:
The submersible drone is diving to about 260'. The small boat and umbilical for that drone seem very small for a project like this.
The supposedly end of the pipe appears to be severed in a very clean cut. Not typical of an explosive charge (Underwater demolition). More typical of a "shaped charge" like used to cut off piling when decommissioning offshore platforms.
View attachment 7979045
www.bbc.com

Nord Stream blast 'blew away 50 metres of pipe'

Danish police say explosions damaged two pipelines built to bring Russian gas to Germany.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
Click to expand...


Couple of blokes with their fishing trawler.........
Footage shown and the tiny drone are from a private company working for the local news crew hence the low budget outfit and footage.
 
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