Is the .17HMR really much better than .22LR for varmints?

[Rodney65]

I am considering investing in my Savage 93R17 BSEV to get some more use out of it. I haven't shot it in years.

I don't shoot it much anymore because it's boringly accurate and as a gopher rifle my .22 is more like my hunting and match rifles and is three times cheaper to shoot while the Savage is quite lacking at the moment in the optics and chassis department. The .22 works for what I use it for but I was thinking the .17 would be better.

My thinking was I would have a flatter shooting rifle for medium varmints like skunks, foxes, beavers, muskrats, and possibly coyotes for when centerfires would be overkill or too loud around the property as suppressors aren't an option.


I am far from a ballistics expert but comparing the .17HMR to the .22 Mini Mags it's better but not a lot better.



Here's .22:

And here's the .17:

So it seems that my point blank range only increases from about 110 yards to 140 yards or so which isn't a lot really. Also not sure that bullet energy is the end all, be all of stopping power but it doesn't seem to offer a huge increase for larger animals.


Would I be correct to think the .17HMR is only 25 to 30% better than a .22 with Mini Mags? Stingers pack more of a punch but they weren't as accurate for me. The .17 does shoot flatter but past 150 yards does it have enough energy for the critters I would be going after?

Also side note, if I get a new base rail I don't think there is any reason to go with a 20 MOA one as at 300 yards it only needs a little over 3 mil.

 

[DFOOSKING]

I shot 17HMR a ton when it first came out. Bought a couple cases of ammo when you could get it for $5.99 a box. Shot prairie dogs, coons, jack rabbits, and a bunch of smaller stuff.

Even got a coyote in the middle of a blizzard at night with it at like 200 to 250-ish Hail Mary shot. Although it was barely adequate. I spine'd him and his flopping around probably did just as much damage.

When ammo started climbing above $8.99 a box....I pretty much shelved the gun. I couldn't tell you when or what I shot it at last.

I like the .17HMR.....have zero love for the .17Mach2. Would really like a 17 Rem. I have no clue why you'd compare Stingers or Maxi Mags when 17HMR is far more accurate further out. They don't hold a candle at range.

Ammo prices have pretty much ruined everything shooting related. I'm just glad I got into this game with some guns before it went to shit so I can have a "different club for a different scenario"....wider point of view. I can't really recommend to newer shooters to buy a bunch of a different caliber guns. You can't count on ammo makers to fill shelves. And if they do....you can be assured they are fucking you more and more year after year on prices.

A suppressed .22lr can cover a lot of bases. Then a small caliber centerfire....like .223 or .204 (oh wait they decided to rape us on the cheaper to produce .204 for a while now....go figure). But I'm not spending +$15 for .17HMR...fuck that noise. I'll just pound whatever it is with something that has some real ass on it.

 

[Emerson0311]

If you are ranging your shots, 22LR with a quality rifle is no slouch. Guesstimating range, we’ll get out your wallet for the ammo cost. It’s just a budget question.

 

[Basher]

Look at the wind drift, though. If you’re not good at calling wind, that little .17HMR that’s hauling ass double time is going to run a .22 into the dirt. Even at just 100y, the .17 has less than a quarter of the wind drift of the .22 Minimag. Everybody always looks purely at trajectory with regard to MBPR, but calling wind is what everyone sucks at. BIG difference in performance there, and I’d argue that’s what will make the bigger difference in your ability to make shots where they count.

Your charts aren’t apples to apples, FYI. The .22 has inches and “clicks,” the .17 has inches and mrad. Does “clicks” = mrad on these?

As for cost, the .17 isn’t exactly cheap, but it’s about on par with mid-tier match .22 like Center-X. You can find it for around $10/box if you look. For the added performance, I think it’s worth it.

 

[Rodney65]

I have no clue why you'd compare Stingers or Maxi Mags when 17HMR is far more accurate further out. They don't hold a candle at range.

I'm comparing them because I own both of them and those are the varminting rounds I use in both. I'm not planning on buying a new rifle.

I appreciate the feedback. I had bought the .17HMR years ago to use as a target rifle and almost entirely switched to .22. Now I am dealing with slightly larger varmints but don't have the option to use a suppressor and don't really want to use a centerfire so I was just getting opinions about the .17.

 

[Rodney65]

Your charts aren’t apples to apples, FYI. The .22 has inches and “clicks,” the .17 has inches and mrad. Does “clicks” = mrad on these?

As for cost, the .17 isn’t exactly cheap, but it’s about on par with mid-tier match .22 like Center-X. You can find it for around $10/box if you look. For the added performance, I think it’s worth it.

Yeah "clicks" are 0.1 mrad. Sorry I pulled them both up on Strelok and that was what was saved for each chart. I fixed it. I was more focused on the elevation in inches because for snap shots I wanted a longer point blank range and for me that's anything plus or minus an inch or two.

I am sitting on a stash of .17HMR TNT, the JHP rounds. I read some posts on other forums about how people had poor luck with the poly tipped for larger game but the JHPs were okay.

I give opinions I receive on Sniper's Hide more weight than other forums so thank you for the responses. Most people here have quite a lot of time and money invested and experience gained in long range and precision shooting and it not as fudd centric. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[mrmarklin]

For ground squirrels, the .17HMR has no peer. The 17 gr bullet sighted at 7/8” above center at 100 yards has a point blank range of 175 yards. I have shot thousands of ground squirrels at all ranges up to and including a longest shot at 178 yards. It is very accurate. I don’t dial or hold over, as i think the power runs out past PBR.

 

[RTH1800]

I found the 17 HMR to be fun but lacking energy on coyotes, badgers etc beyond 100 yards.
Better than .22 LR of course. Once I step up from .22 LR my next stop is normally .204. I do still have a .22 magnum but find less use for it last few years.

 

[Dan.Engellant]

Yes the 17 is much better than the 22. We hardly use our 22s for varmints anymore. A suppressed 17 is the go to until the ranges or wind day we need to use the 223.

 

[Basher]

Yeah "clicks" are 0.1 mrad. Sorry I pulled them both up on Strelok and that was what was saved for each chart. I fixed it. I was more focused on the elevation in inches because for snap shots I wanted a longer point blank range and for me that's anything plus or minus an inch or two.

I am sitting on a stash of .17HMR TNT, the JHP rounds. I read some posts on other forums about how people had poor luck with the poly tipped for larger game but the JHPs were okay.

I give opinions I receive on Sniper's Hide more weight than other forums so thank you for the responses. Most people here have quite a lot of time and money invested and experience gained in long range and precision shooting and it not as fudd centric. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

The 20gr XTP/JHP is the ticket for larger/tougher critters for sure, whereas the 17gr V-Max is explosive of smaller/thinner-skinned vermin. I’d stick with the 20gr and keep shots within 50-75y max for larger game (closer the better for yotes if you want to ensure a humane kill).

While it’s true that a .204 or .223 will far outperform the .17, I still find it has a solid place especially if you can get a decent deal on a case quantity of ammo for it. Moreso if you don’t reload (most good factory .223 is spendy anymore!). A quarter a shot isn’t plinking territory by any means, but for a shorter-range pest gun it works great IMO!

 

[supercorndogs]

There places I can shoot 17hmr and 22lr for varmints I can't shoot 223 or 20 practical.

The point blank zero comment is spot on. Want to drive around and hit them fast. Point and shoot to 175. Ya that's a significant improvement.

Now 1 17hmr costs 4 22lr so you can walk in your shots and still save money. Who likes to miss more thought?

 

[Chubbyduck]

I have the Savage 93R 17 It’s a great gun I have taken foxes out past 150yrds drops them no problem,i get ground hogs all the time at 50yards they explode same with squirrels destroys them.I like the 17gr better seems to hold a better line than the 20gr.

 

[Rodney65]

Well thank you everyone for the replies. I have ordered some extra mags and a scope rail.

I am probably going to get an MDT Field Stock as well. I'm just trying to figure out what arca rail length I need to use it on a tripod but still leave some bipod options for either a harris or picatinny mounted unit in front.

 

[Rodney65]

Didn't realize my Vortex PMR rings wouldn't fit on a the factory base so I bought a new base rail then realized the PMR rings were crazy high:

So then I went with Weaver sized Vortex hunter rings:

Also grabbed a bolt knob.

I used to like the lines of this stock and thought I might be able to live with it but it is very unbalanced on the bipod. Also lacks an Arca rail so I may have to get the Field Stock.

 

[DFOOSKING]

No offense to you...but that stock is about the worst design ever made. Too many issues to list.

 

[Big Phish]

Nothing a like suppressed 22 Hornet as it can do everything for less especially when reloading.

 

[Rodney65]

No offense to you...but that stock is about the worst design ever made. Too many issues to list.

I am not offended. It has issues. I bought it when I was much younger and dumber and wanted something with a "softer" appearance for gopher hunting.

 

[Ronin22]

When I had a Ruger 77/17 I could effortlessly print tight groups at 125yds. Smoke ground hogs pretty good too. I also found the CCI 20gr JHP the best grouping and killing. Still got 500rnds of that ammo. I should get a CZ457 AT-One again to shoot it up! lol

 

[Kiba]

The 17hmr isn't perfect, but it's very good for a point and shoot solution on small critters out to 150-170y without having to spend time ranging to figure out the drop as with a 22lr, and also no worrying about chasing brass or having to spend the time to reload for the smaller centerfire cartridges like 20VT, 204, 223, etc.

I have a 17hmr that is used for eliminating about 750-1000 ground squirrels per year. I use it in areas where I can't use my centerfires but I also want something a bit more than my PCP air rifle. The PCP air rifle requires very accurate ranging to make hits past 75y or so because of the huge amount of drop, whereas the 17hmr is pretty much point and shoot out to 160-170ish yards being +/- 1 inch from point of aim from 25y to 160y with a 50y zero. While I've successfully hit squirrels out at 200-250 with the 17hmr, that's not typically how I use it, and the ammo inconsistency really shows at those ranges.

Biggest issue with 17hmr in my experience is quality of the ammo. 17hmr ammo typically has a very poor ES/SD and it really shows out at 200-250y. At 150y and in the vertical dispersion from the velocity inconsistency is typically well within the size of the critter you are aiming at; at 150y a 100fps difference from shot to shot is only about 0.4" change in vertical; at 225y that 100fps difference means a 1.5" change in the vertical, which means a miss if you're trying to get a squirrel that's only peeking his head out of the hole at that range.

Also, several times over the last 15ish years of shooting 17hmr I've received ammo batches that develop neck splits after 6+ months on the shelf. It usually manifests as accuracy issues and even worse than usual es/sd, but the split necks will also leave a bullet in the chamber and a "pepper shaker" dumping powder all inside the action if you try and extract an unfired cartridge. Have to be aware of that so you don't stuff another one in with an obstructed barrel.

As long as you are aware of the limitations of the 17hmr it's another good tool to have in the toolbox when it comes to eliminating small critters.

 

[Sniff]

I love mine. Marlin 917 with a Leupold 4.5-14 scope and a Gunworks suppressor made for 17 HMR.

If I'm closer to houses, stock or horses, I'll use a suppressed .22 to be extra quiet.

 

[Ronin22]

I love mine. Marlin 917 with a Leupold 4.5-14 scope and a Gunworks suppressor made for 17 HMR.

If I'm closer to houses, stock or horses, I'll use a suppressed .22 to be extra quiet.

Holy shit! Looks like you're hunting the Froto Baggins Shire! Amazing!

 

[Rodney65]

Holy shit! Looks like you're hunting the Froto Baggins Shire! Amazing!

It really does. That's incredible.

 

[Sniff]

Holy shit! Looks like you're hunting the Froto Baggins Shire! Amazing!

Not quite. But the railway crossing in the centre left was used in the opening scene of 2005 movie The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe.

It really does. That's incredible.

It's a nice little spot about 40km north of Auckland. I have access to 1800 acres. I need to get up there more often than I do.

 

[TACC]

Nothing a like suppressed 22 Hornet as it can do everything for less especially when reloadi

I like 22 Hornet as well, don't reload, but bought enough , they are no longer cheap rounds for plinking. I have s Ruger 77 that is a tack driver with a 3-9 on it. Still debating on wether the 17 is worth diving into.

 

[steve123]

Not that people do it much but the farther out "long range wise" for a 17 hmr it gets the tougher it is to see misses and by then that 17 grainer has blown a lot in the wind.

Once in a while I'll run across interesting scenarios when shooting with friends. One involved my friend and his 17 hmr Contender carbine against me and my 22 cal pcp air rifle using 42gr swaged slugs.

To begin with my pcp air rifle is more precise that his 17 hmr is.
Also the G1 BC for my slug is a G1 .142.
So on a windy day at 250Y we were shooting at a coyote shaped steel about 15 wide and 7" from belly to back.
I hit it more than he did for these reasons,
#1 we couldn't tell exactly where he hit when he hit nor where he missed in the dirt "as often". Partially because a bunch of energy had been lost by then.
#2 even though the 17 hmr got there faster with much less drop the low BC of those 17 grainers made for them blowing in the wind much more.
That's a hard recipe to deal with way out there.

The SD on my pcp is really low like 4 fps, if that, which helps.
Like I mentioned it's more precise as well.
And my pcp is easier to shoot because it's a heavy target rifle and has a nice target stock.
I could see where the 42 grainer landed easier.
And the 42 grainers weren't affected by wind so much.
Velocity is 830 fps.

10 mph full value = 2.2 mils windage needed for the 17hmr at 250Y vs 1.6 mils for my pcp air rifle. It was blowing more than 10 mph the day we shot, maybe up to 15 mph or so.

Fun thing to think about isn't it?!