Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

[dbsinh2o]

As a 5R Milspec owner, I wouldn't refer to my gun as a "precision rifle". Let's face it, it's not.

It's a mass-produced factory firearm, with the tolerances of a mass-produced factory firearm. Meaning that while it may be a good shooter, no special effort went into mine that didn't go into every other 5R that came off the assembly line.

Okay, so they're limited production, have different rifling, and the stock is better than an entry model 700. Maybe I'd be okay with calling it a "semi-precision" rifle, but that's as far as I'd take it.

After watching some videos about truing an action, installing a bolt, rebarreling, bedding, etc - I've got a lot of respect for what goes into making a rifle "precision". I'd bet it takes a lot more than 4x the labor to make a $4000 rifle than a $1000 rifle.

Just seems to me like a lot of folks (including some manufacturers) throw this term around to describe rifles that really aren't all that special.

 

[ZackOwns]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

I don't own a R5 but I do own a Savage 10 bas and remington 700 tact and I'm with you on this. I would say my savageis more accurate than my remington and it preforms way above my level of shooting. Mad respect is def due to the Custom Smiths out there. I really wish I would of known more about rifles before buying the two I own and would have just bought a GAP.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As a 5R Milspec owner, I wouldn't refer to my gun as a "precision rifle". Let's face it, it's not.

It's a mass-produced factory firearm, with the tolerances of a mass-produced factory firearm. Meaning that while it may be a good shooter, no special effort went into mine that didn't go into every other 5R that came off the assembly line.

Okay, so they're limited production, have different rifling, and the stock is better than an entry model 700. Maybe I'd be okay with calling it a "semi-precision" rifle, but that's as far as I'd take it.

After watching some videos about truing an action, installing a bolt, rebarreling, bedding, etc - I've got a lot of respect for what goes into making a rifle "precision". I'd bet it takes a lot more than 4x the labor to make a $4000 rifle than a $1000 rifle.

Just seems to me like a lot of folks (including some manufacturers) throw this term around to describe rifles that really aren't all that special.



</div></div>

Your description describes custom rifles vs. production rifles.......apples and oranges, usually.

4k can build a dog of a rifle too, and I've seen that personally.

Just sayin'........

"Precision Rifle" has more to do with the inherent, proven, ability of the rifle; not necessarily how much the price tag was. Yeah, more money usually buys more precision, but it's not set in stone that way.

Then along comes the shooter who thinks he's a precision shooter, and he's not. A precision rifle isn't gonna help him much.

As far as the marketing use of the term....some gear is worthy, some is not. Some manufacturers are worthy, some not.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

I have a 5R also.
I would consider it a "precision rifle" because that is its' intended purpose.
It is also quite capable of providing that precision fire. It seems to be capable of sub- 1/2 moa, but I have not shot it enough to have a large enough sample.

A 1.5 minute rifle can be considered a "precision rifle" when you stop to consider that with that rifle, proper equipment and training, you can succesfully engage individual man sized targets out to 1000 yards.

Have I seen smaller groups fired then what can be accomplished with my 5r? Yes, I have. But how well is that rifle that can put 5 rounds into a hole not much larger than 1 bullet diameter going to perform in the field?

 

[rrflyer]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

I think you should quit with the semantics and go shoot......

 

[dbsinh2o]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your description describes custom rifles vs. production rifles.......apples and oranges, usually.

4k can build a dog of a rifle too, and I've seen that personally.

Just sayin'........

"Precision Rifle" has more to do with the inherent, proven, ability of the rifle; not necessarily how much the price tag was. Yeah, more money usually buys more precision, but it's not set in stone that way.

Then along comes the shooter who thinks he's a precision shooter, and he's not. A precision rifle isn't gonna help him much.

As far as the marketing use of the term....some gear is worthy, some is not. Some manufacturers are worthy, some not. </div></div>

I'm sure guns at every price point have the occasional turd. Wasn't trying to say cost alone guarantees accuracy, but some of the higher-end manufacturers do have such a guarantee. And after seeing the work involved, the cost doesn't seem out of line.

I just don't get the whole "precision rifle" term. Is it a rifle that's made with a higher degree of precision (tighter tolerances)? A rifle used for "precision" shooting? And what would that be defined as? A rifle capable of "precision" accuracy?

I was under the impression that it's a tolerance thing. Better parts with tighter tolerances = better accuracy = more cost to get there.

I just don't see how a (mass) production rifle can be considered a "precision" rifle when the customs are more precise.

Hope that doesn't sound too confusing.

 

[dbsinh2o]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you should quit with the semantics and go shoot...... </div></div>

I can't. I'm on business travel in MA. Can't even buy ammo here!

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

I consider the "precision" in precision rifle as a reference to the rifle's ability to put rounds on a precise point, not the manufacturing tolerances.

I think you should quit with the semantics and at least look into topics that are beneficial to shooters, if you can't shoot.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I consider the "precision" in precision rifle as a reference to the rifle's ability to put rounds on a precise point, not the manufacturing tolerances.
</div></div>

+1 an 800$ Savage might shoot as good or better than a 3-4K custom, but as mentioned already, a mass produced factory gun doesn't exactly come across as a precision rifle, but if the results are precise, then it must be.

 

[bm11]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

Tough to say what the definition of a "precision rifle is." The fit and finish of the skins (where both halves meet especially) is laughable on my AIAX and AIAW, and yet both of them headspace equal to each other (when swapping the barrel or/and the bolt) to the thousands, and both of them are ridiculously accurate.

 

[ifixplanes]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you should quit with the semantics and go shoot...... </div></div>
+1

 

[105amatt]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you should quit with the semantics and go shoot......</div></div>

Shooting is funner than typing.

 

[Skunkeye]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

Precision applies to the placement of the bullets. Folks who don't know any better make precise shots with cheap rifles all the time.

 

[E3C3H3O3]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 105Amatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you should quit with the semantics and go shoot......</div></div>

Shooting is funner than typing. </div></div>

Uhhhhhhh,,,,yeah,,,,,,,,,,Go Shoot

 

[pawprint]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

Yes the term is way over used!!! When you look at F-class 1000 yard events, it looks like the Savage model 12's are taking rifles costing 5 times as much to the cleaners. It also appears to me, far to many builders make claims regarding the weapons they make-"better than winning benchrest rifles for accuracy, etc." I'd love to see the Hide have a "Builder's Cup" match! No running and gunning, just slow fire events out to a 1000. This would give the "less than an 1/8MOA guys a great chance to show the world their rifles can do it! A slow fire, "Builder's Cup" match would really help the sale of those that can demonstrate their claims, while others may be a little more realistic in their claims-who would the winner be? We the consumer-not to mention it would help elevate the Hide's status-already the best forum, and keep it that way!

 

[snewhouse]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As a 5R Milspec owner, I wouldn't refer to my gun as a "precision rifle". Let's face it, it's not.
</div></div>

I am not sure I agree. Here is a 100yard 5 shoot group I got with my 5r the first day I shot it. Sure lots of customs can do that and better but I can't complain about what this gun delivers.

 

[USMARINE1108]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

The term "precision" is what people use so they don't get yelled at for calling their rifle a sniper rifle. The term "tactical" makes people sound like a tool. When someone says "precision", I think benchrest. When someone says "sniper", I think of snipers.

ETA:
Just because someone buys a SPS and screws on a base, rings, scope and bipod does not mean it's a "build". That gets me too.

 

[Tomekeuro85]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMARINE1108</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ETA:
Just because someone buys a SPS and screws on a base, rings, scope and bipod does not mean it's a "build". That gets me too. </div></div>

What if they adjust the xmark trigger to be lighter?

 

[neeley205]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomekeuro85</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMARINE1108</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ETA:
Just because someone buys a SPS and screws on a base, rings, scope and bipod does not mean it's a "build". That gets me too. </div></div>

What if they adjust the xmark trigger to be lighter? </div></div>

OK, but ONLY if it has a snipery Krylon job on it. And the shooter can drop at least 8-10 snipery terms on fellow shooters at will. Things like what "FDAC" stands for. .

 

[snewhouse]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomekeuro85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What if they adjust the xmark trigger to be lighter? </div></div>

If you can adjust that POS trigger to be even semi usable you would have my respect

 

[winxp_man]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMARINE1108</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The term "precision" is what people use so they don't get yelled at for calling their rifle a sniper rifle. The term "tactical" makes people sound like a tool. When someone says "precision", I think benchrest. When someone says "sniper", I think of snipers.

ETA:
Just because someone buys a SPS and screws on a base, rings, scope and bipod does not mean it's a "build". That gets me too. </div></div>

+1 I rather say precision than "sniper rifle"

To me when someone says Oh look at that sniper rifle he must of watched to many movies or played to many games........ "CoD" to mention one

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I consider the "precision" in precision rifle as a reference to the rifle's ability to put rounds on a precise point, not the manufacturing tolerances.</span>

I think you should quit with the semantics and at least look into topics that are beneficial to shooters, if you can't shoot. </div></div>

The latter begets (or in large part influences) the former. If tolerances are loose or poor then accuracy is surely negatively impacted.

Whilst semantics can get in the way of functional understanding of a topic, ultimately semantics are helpful if one wants to have a granular understanding of said topic. To illustrate the point look at all the vagueness that surrounds the optics discussions when people say 'this glass is so clear'. It took the parsing out and defining of specifics by people like Ilya for us to get a common ground of comparison when discussing 'clear'.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paw print</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes the term is way over used!!! When you look at F-class 1000 yard events, it looks like the Savage model 12's are taking rifles costing 5 times as much to the cleaners. It also appears to me, far to many builders make claims regarding the weapons they make-"better than winning benchrest rifles for accuracy, etc." I'd love to see the Hide have a "Builder's Cup" match! No running and gunning, just slow fire events out to a 1000. This would give the "less than an 1/8MOA guys a great chance to show the world their rifles can do it! A slow fire, "Builder's Cup" match would really help the sale of those that can demonstrate their claims, while others may be a little more realistic in their claims-who would the winner be? We the consumer-not to mention it would help elevate the Hide's status-already the best forum, and keep it that way! </div></div>

Which builder(s) is saying they guarantee 1/8MOA at 1,000yds? It's commonly accepted that at that range it's more the accurate reading of conditions and compensation for them than the rifle. However, a rifle that shoots 1MOA at 100yds is going to be a damn sight harder to be accurate with at 1000yds no matter what than one that's guaranteed to be 1/4MOA.

 

[alt6grunt]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

I mostly agree, many terms are being used to sound more politically correct. Some of this comes from L.E. Instructor schools trying to avoid words that were highlighted unfavorably by media or recent court decisions. Words are selected to paint a desired picture. Such as sniper, which is used by the media to describe an ambush or just any bad guy with any type of rifle.

Your quote “When someone says "sniper", I think of snipers” So do average citizens (that also make up juries) but it is “SNIPER” as the media has painted that title to represent.

If you are defending a police action or you are tying to comfort the crowd, saying we had Police Sharp Shooters in place, sounds better than Police Sniper.

The word precision rifle with surgical accuracy is less offensive to some than the term sniper.

 

[Sapper524]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alt6grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The word precision rifle with surgical accuracy is less offensive to some than the term sniper.
</div></div>

To hell with the pinko libs ... they can go eat camel dung ...

I agree ... taking a SPS and putting a base, rings, optics, on it is not a "build"

If it shoots MOA or better at 500 yards ... THEN its a precision rifle in my book.

 

[alt6grunt]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

I agree, but I understand why the words are selected. This is due to a softer America, frivolous law suits and the MEDIA that turns into a feeding frenzy. Most American citizen could not imagine the fire power possessed by many police departments. So things are toned down for those in denial also.

 

[tfre3927]

Re: Is the term "precision rifle" overused?

Seems like people need to be far more concerned about their shooting rather than their rifles! Precision is so dependent on the consistency of the shooter it's almost irrelevant to me if someone claims to have a precision rifle if I know they are a shitty shot.