Just wait until we have laser rifles, flying cars and live on the moon. LOL My point was it doesn't now and people who think they can buy this and make hits out past 1000 are in for a serious eye opening revelation. I will use anything that makes the job easier as I have a wind meter and a LRF but this won't do it.......yet.
- Thread starter garandman
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Just wait until we have laser rifles, flying cars and live on the moon. LOL My point was it doesn't now and people who think they can buy this and make hits out past 1000 are in for a serious eye opening revelation. I will use anything that makes the job easier as I have a wind meter and a LRF but this won't do it.......yet.
Yes, that's what I confirmed after I made my post
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/11/news/companies/trackingpoint-gun/
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I'm a systems/safety engineer who works on safety-critical and mission-critical systems for automobiles and heavy trucks (drive-by-wire systems, powertrain and chassis electromechanical and electrohydraulic controllers, stuff like that). So, yeah, I have a bit of a clue in this area.
Considering the piss-poor reliability of present-day mechanical scopes (they are almost certainly the weak link in any precision rifle), I'm not going to buy into this Luddism concerning electro-optical rifle scopes.
The mere existence of this technology also does not negate anybody's ability to learn how to make wind calls and use come-up tables.
I'd like to explore this topic in further detail, but I'm working on-site at a customer's food distribution center today. If someone wants to get loose shits about dependence upon technology, forget your precious rifle scope for a moment and look at the depth of inventory (or rather, the lack thereof) at your local grocery store.
Shades of John Henry. People don't like being displaced, especially when they don't understand what is displacing them. It's going to happen, just as it's happened time and time again through the ages.
I'm all about technology and anything to make the job easier, I'm the biggest gear whore at the shop. But what I see here are several failures: First the shooter can't manually fire the trigger from what I experienced at the demo so if the system goes down(and it will go down sooner or later) the rifle is useless. As a combat vet that's a major no-no because Murphy is everywhere. Second, the shooter still has to put in the wind call so I really do not see the benefit of this 27000 set up. Im all about the Laser rangefinders with wind meters in them but if they break I can still read mirage and mil my target to make the shot.
Yep. If you have an electronic scope you get rid of the gears and erector assembly in the scope which are huge reliability issues. With electronics the reticle is all virtual. No more having the windage/elevation knobs go out. No more inconsistent clicks and return to zero. No parallax issues. Plus you can build in night vision and even something like IFF technology so the rifle warns you if you are covering a friendly downrange.
The wind measurement issue will be fixed eventually. It's just a matter of time.
As an Army sniper I can appreciate what this scope can do at extended ranges but only for military and LEO applications. For hunting don't cheat, be a sport
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To answer the original question...
Cheating: Nope. It's just another tool. A tool with shortfalls.
Lazy: Yup. There are some wth more money than sense who would rather flush cash on something like this instead of trigger time. It's nothing but a boat anchor if a chip or the power supply fails and they still don't know how to drive a rifle in the end. Just watch the guy in the video.
Insulting: Nope. Doesn't insult me. I enjoy all trigger sports but IMHO by taking pressing the trigger out of the equation, a big part of the enjoyment goes away.
Just my .02 worth.
Cheating: Nope. It's just another tool. A tool with shortfalls.
Lazy: Yup. There are some wth more money than sense who would rather flush cash on something like this instead of trigger time. It's nothing but a boat anchor if a chip or the power supply fails and they still don't know how to drive a rifle in the end. Just watch the guy in the video.
Insulting: Nope. Doesn't insult me. I enjoy all trigger sports but IMHO by taking pressing the trigger out of the equation, a big part of the enjoyment goes away.
Just my .02 worth.
This just looks like it takes all the fun out of shooting. Hitting your target is not the fun part, the fun part is the probability of missing and overcoming the odds. I could afford some awesome toys that would make point and shoot easier (Not one of these things), but then where is the fun in that? To me it is much more fun to read mirage use my range cards do some math, and then send my bullet. I am not an expert so I miss, but on the days I can set up a coke at 600+ yards and hit it on the first shot of the day I feel fantastic.
I was at an event where they had one of these on a 300 win mag, I got in line to shoot it. I hit targets at 500 yards with no doping 4/5 times. I have never shot that far due to range limits in my area. It was cool but not in my price range plus I would rather learn the manual way to have the knowledge and experience.
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I'd think they made the connection between the scope and the trigger (not engaging until you're on target) for presentation purposes. That way they make sure that user input does not affect the real potential of this system. I personally would have liked to see it as an independent device that could connect in the front of the scope (like an NV) then have it just give you the number of clicks to set in your scope. From a display perspective I'd only like to see the red dot where the systems is targeting, # of clicks needed (maybe have it detect and present how many clicks left to correct dope) and maybe measured distance, but no color changing cross-hairs (keep the view as clean as possible).
It stops working, and you presumably change the battery. Same thing that happens to your range finder or ballistic calculator/wind-meter gizmo. We live in an electronic age - everything has batteries.
Now, what happens when the batteries die when you've got a target in your sights? That's another matter. I would assume they would shut the unit down before it got that low.
Nice technology. but I'll stick with my Mil Dot master. No battries required.
I imagine they started rolling when those newfangled cheating telescopic scopes were mounted on sniper rifles.
As others have stated, this thing is made moot by its inability to dope for the wind. Find me that gizmo, and you could probably double the damn price on the thing. Not that I could afford it, but you guys smell what I'm stepping, right?
Furthermore, you have to use the company's ammo, or, I guess ammo loaded to their same spec for the gizmo to work as it should. Guess how cheap you can grab a box of 20 Tracking Point pills for?
Furthermore, you have to use the company's ammo, or, I guess ammo loaded to their same spec for the gizmo to work as it should. Guess how cheap you can grab a box of 20 Tracking Point pills for?
Got a chance to shoot the Trackingpoint 300WM this week. We also got a look at the 5.56 AR model. Their marketing lead (the guy in their videos) is super nice and a good spokesperson for them.
The system definitely works, I deliberately put a lot of cant in the weapon to see what it would do and I hit a 3" target at 400yds. The rifle had a gentle recoil, surgeon action (is this why surgeon wasn't taking orders for a while? hmmm) and overall fit and finish were nice, user interface was fairly intuitive and easy to learn. Piping the scope view to a tablet has interesting training applications, and the shot replay capabilities are nice. I also like the onboard cant and incline indicators. There were definitely little things to improve that come with any new integrated system but I think their design evolution reflects real intelligence and efficiency. I've seen a lot of poorly designed systems and I'm not easily impressed, but these guys have their act together.
That being said, the market for this type of thing is very much undefined. As someone trying to improve my long range skills I'm not looking for a gun that takes me out of the equation. I think they've sold about 1000 of these and I'm sure they'll continue to find the right customer. We recently saw a guy shooting a $10,000 .50 BMG setup that was completely clueless, had absolutely no idea what was going on. That guy might be happier with a gun that can consistently hit at long range even if his technique is awful (TP can fix stupid up to a point, but it doesn't currently do wind calls so wind conditions will be the range-limiting factor). And I bet there are a few thousand people out there in the same boat, which would give the original TP investors a healthy ROI. Some people are probably concerned about a nitwit's ability to go buy a rifle and hit at range with no skill or training, but more trigger time only develops skill (not judgment) so an asshole is an asshole no matter what.
From a military perspective, this is going to be a tough sell for the time being. I don't know anybody that would carry one of these on a combat mission.
The system definitely works, I deliberately put a lot of cant in the weapon to see what it would do and I hit a 3" target at 400yds. The rifle had a gentle recoil, surgeon action (is this why surgeon wasn't taking orders for a while? hmmm) and overall fit and finish were nice, user interface was fairly intuitive and easy to learn. Piping the scope view to a tablet has interesting training applications, and the shot replay capabilities are nice. I also like the onboard cant and incline indicators. There were definitely little things to improve that come with any new integrated system but I think their design evolution reflects real intelligence and efficiency. I've seen a lot of poorly designed systems and I'm not easily impressed, but these guys have their act together.
That being said, the market for this type of thing is very much undefined. As someone trying to improve my long range skills I'm not looking for a gun that takes me out of the equation. I think they've sold about 1000 of these and I'm sure they'll continue to find the right customer. We recently saw a guy shooting a $10,000 .50 BMG setup that was completely clueless, had absolutely no idea what was going on. That guy might be happier with a gun that can consistently hit at long range even if his technique is awful (TP can fix stupid up to a point, but it doesn't currently do wind calls so wind conditions will be the range-limiting factor). And I bet there are a few thousand people out there in the same boat, which would give the original TP investors a healthy ROI. Some people are probably concerned about a nitwit's ability to go buy a rifle and hit at range with no skill or training, but more trigger time only develops skill (not judgment) so an asshole is an asshole no matter what.
From a military perspective, this is going to be a tough sell for the time being. I don't know anybody that would carry one of these on a combat mission.
Seems a little complex, fragile, and heavy, but if it can help put a bullet into the head of a jihadist I'm all for it.
meh. thats all i have to say.
I'd like to see that wind-estimation technology added to something like the Burris Eliminator. That's not really my cup of tea either, but it's already here and if the scope is going to correct for range, it might as well correct for windage.jmho.
Obviously it's likely fragile and buggy at this point, most new technology is. Give it a few years and it might find a legitimate place on the battlefield and law enforcement applications, as well as guys with more money than sense. Let those guys fund the next generation of improvements, reduce the burden on my tax dollars if/when the military starts issuing these. Or congress orders a few counter to the brass' wishes.
Obviously it's likely fragile and buggy at this point, most new technology is. Give it a few years and it might find a legitimate place on the battlefield and law enforcement applications, as well as guys with more money than sense. Let those guys fund the next generation of improvements, reduce the burden on my tax dollars if/when the military starts issuing these. Or congress orders a few counter to the brass' wishes.
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When I shot it I will admit it was fun but it wasn't my gun or ammunition. The rifle they had it in was outstanding. A 300 win mag with nearly no recoil (muzzle break) but if you want to learn the correct way to shoot, range, and dope this is probably not it. If they did find away to add in wind estimation that would be a giant Leap. Also the price is not really practical at this point. Very expensive.
No doubt! That's why I got into this game in the first place.
If you look at the video you see that the tagging and then bringing the gun to the tag is cumbersome and makes the results worse than if you had aimed with a properly dialed-in reticle.
Even with the tagging you still need to hold still and follow through. You may as well do this with the reticle.
I think an electronic reticle that compensates for distance and (ultimately) wind is going to be the winner in the long run. Even lead for moving targets could be calculated with the "optical flow" of the background.
Even with the tagging you still need to hold still and follow through. You may as well do this with the reticle.
I think an electronic reticle that compensates for distance and (ultimately) wind is going to be the winner in the long run. Even lead for moving targets could be calculated with the "optical flow" of the background.
i dont think it will ever make wind estimations because of the multiple different wind values depending on how many, valleys crests, etc you are shooting past or across.how the wind where the scope is isnt normally how the wind between it and the target is
Have read everything I can find on this system. Basic was over $20,000. Lot of money just to go shooting. Contacted the owner of Tracking Point, I am a better than average long distance marksman. Ask if I could shoot against his system, offered my bonafides to prove my abilities, so far haven't heard back. Huh.
Not just NF but many of the optics we use. Whack the hell out of that thing a few times and put it in extended temps and I still wouldn't trust it enough to take it out for anything important. The little bit of training it requires to shoot effectively at realistic ranges makes things like this kind of moot. On the other hand, I'm all for innovation so glad to see someone pushing the envelope - something good will come out of the project even if it's just an aspect of more interactive shooting like scope weather stations, digital or integral levels, more dynamic reticles, etc.
