Gunsmithing Is this considered gunsmithing & require an FFL?

[Heretic]

Hi everyone,

I'm about to go live with a business and I've seen this come up on the forums frequently.

Is the <span style="font-weight: bold">painting</span> of (non-serialized) firearm components such as stocks, barrels, pistol slides, hand guards, grips, scopes, considered gun smithing?

There will be no alteration of the function of the firearms as they will be brought in to us in a disassembled condition, (no moving parts). We will be painting them.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

 

[dsink]

Re: Is this considered gunsmithing & require an FFL?

Nope. You should be good. As long as your not keeping the serial numbered part for more than 24 hours your good to go.

 

[Mark Housel]

Re: Is this considered gunsmithing & require an FFL?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">s the painting of (non-serialized) firearm components such as stocks, barrels, pistol slides, hand guards, grips, scopes, considered gun smithing?
</div></div>
So long as what is brought to you for finishing is <span style="font-weight: bold">never</span> the serial number controlled part of the firearm then you are just a parts painter and no FFL is required.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There will be <span style="font-weight: bold">no alteration of the function of the firearms</span> as they will be brought in to us <span style="font-weight: bold">in a disassembled condition</span>, (no moving parts). We will be painting them.</div></div>
You just can't allow customers to bring a receiver, pistol frame, IOW the S/N controlled part of a gun (<span style="font-weight: bold">regardless of the state of disassembly</span>) in for work without the FFL as that would be considered gunsmithing.

 

[GasLight]

Re: Is this considered gunsmithing & require an FFL?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dsink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nope. You should be good. As long as your not keeping the serial numbered part for more than 24 hours your good to go.</div></div>

I wouldn't totally agree with this, if you have the serialized part for more than 24 hours, you have to do the 4473, but I don't think that has much to do with needing the license part. If you are not in the business of working on serialized (ie the actual firearm) part for profit, then you aren't required to have an FFL. If you are in business and you are dealing with serialized parts, then you are required to have an FFL, the intent of making money doing it is what requires the FFL.

 

[Heretic]

Re: Is this considered gunsmithing & require an FFL?

First let me thank you all for the prompt responses.

Second let me summarize what I understand from the comments:
I can receive delivery of non-serialized parts (either by UPS, FEDEX, mail, walk in, etc.) for the purpose of painting the parts for profit and not need an FFL.

Serialized parts, (frames, lower receivers, bolt Action receivers) regardless of assembled state cannot be painted unless I have an FFL.

Yes?

Thank you all again.

 

[LRI]

Re: Is this considered gunsmithing & require an FFL?

So long as your not keeping serialized parts for 24 hours. . .

-If it (serialized part) crosses a state line, you need an FFL regardless of how little/long it resides in your shop.

-Regardless of what your State Laws are, one cannot trump Federal law.

The only legal way you could fiddle with frames/recievers is if the customer was standing right beside you while you did your thing.

-Basically a business cannot take possession of a firearm without being appropriately licensed.

If your going to be doing gun stuff, might as well get your FFL out of the way. It'll be soon enough that your client base is asking you to cerakote, duracoat, etc. It's not hard and not really expensive.

Takes between 90-180 days typically to get all legal.

Good luck,

C.

 

[GasLight]

Re: Is this considered gunsmithing & require an FFL?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Serialized parts, (frames, lower receivers, bolt Action receivers) regardless of assembled state cannot be painted unless I have an FFL.

Yes?

Thank you all again.</div></div>

Correct, you can verify with ATF, but if you are working on firearms (ie. serialized parts) as a business venture, you are required to have an FFL. To my knowledge the amount of time you have it in you possession doesn't change the requirement of the license, only the requirement of the 4473 paperwork involved. Even then, my understanding is if the person leaves the premises they are required a 4473, but I am not 100% positive on that part.

Dave

 

[Heretic]

Re: Is this considered gunsmithing & require an FFL?

Thank you all again. We plan on starting with non serialized parts.

We will apply for our FFL once we know we're in a permanent shop vs a month to month scenario. If we are only painting, which class license would it be, 1 or 7?

Many thanks!

 

[GasLight]

Re: Is this considered gunsmithing & require an FFL?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We will apply for our FFL once we know we're in a permanent shop vs a month to month scenario. If we are only painting, which class license would it be, 1 or 7?

Many thanks!</div></div>

That depends on what part of the process the painting is being done at. If it is part of the manufacturing of the firearm, 7 is required, otherwise 1 should suffice. I think the ATF put out an opinion on this not too long back, and it seemed to me the goal was to 'encourage' more people to have the 7

 

[Heretic]

Re: Is this considered gunsmithing & require an FFL?

Although I was dreading it, I called the local Las Vegas ATF Supervisor. I'd like to say that you guys are the most knowledgeable I've ever run across. Although you're from different states, the supervisor echoed everything you each wrote, including Chad's comment to just go ahead and get the FFL. He said I'd need a class 1 because the process (with which he was familiar) was done after the firearm was manufactured.

You guys are the best, thank you for answering quickly, but more importantly - accurately. The ATF guy was a lot more helpful and willing to talk and explain things than I expected.

Thanks!

 

[x ring accuracy]

Re: Is this considered gunsmithing & require an FFL?

The ATF field people are for the most part wanting to help. The new ruling states that painting IS a part of gunsmithing and therefore requires a class 01.

 

[230grRN]

Re: Is this considered gunsmithing & require an FFL?

Check out this link it should answer some of your questions.

ATF Gunsmith FAQ's

If it was me I'd be looking into at least a class 1 license.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Re: Is this considered gunsmithing & require an FFL?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As long as your not keeping the serial numbered part for more than 24 hours your good to go.

if you have the serialized part for more than 24 hours, you have to do the 4473,
</div></div>

I disagree with both statements.

I don't know where 24 hours came from, the criteria is overnight and it only applies to entering it in your gunsmith bound book. If you fix or modify guns for money you are engaged in gunsmithing and it requires a type 1 FFL.

ATF Gunsmith FAQ

A 4473 is only required when a gun changes owners. For a gunsmith you would never do one as long as the person that drops it off is the same person that picks it up. Same for guns by mail. As long as you return it to whoever sent it to you no 4473 applies.