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It says a lot about a forum...

S

seanhagerty

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 10, 2010
462
0
62
Near Fort Leonard Wood
....that it has to post a rule that it is not OK to attack new members.

I am glad the mods noticed this was needed.

This place is a wealth of knowledge on all aspects of shooting. New folks (as well as long time members) come here expecting to get access to this knowledge base.

Thanks SnipersHide for helping me understand a lot more about shooting in general.

Sean
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

Right... I dont think people are necessarily trying to be "mean" and attack all new members, just weed out people who should be on arfcom or some call of duty forum. Most people are ex/current military, you have to have thick skin on this forum.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

I LIKE that you had better be here with thick skin.
I don't know if I would call it "attacking" very often. More like hazing.
I went through the ringer with my first post her (go check if you wanna see it) and I learned from it. RESEARCH FIRST, ASK SECOND.
If someone is blatantly ATTACKED that's different but to have the vets give you a proverbial wedgie because you want everything handed to you...that's just funny.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

I couldn't disagree more with folks needing to "be here with thick skin."

Why should we haze newbs? All they want is info. Lets help them out instead of giving them a rough way to go.

Sean
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean Hagerty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why should we haze newbs? <span style="font-weight: bold">All they want is info.</span> Lets help them out instead of giving them a rough way to go.</div></div>

Yep. All they want is info. Instantaneously. In many cases, they come in with preconceived notions derived from armchair experience that they spout as gospel truth, right or wrong, and don't want to, or don't think to search the forums, and then expect to be spoon-fed what it took some of us multiple decades to acquire. I don't mind fielding questions, but not when folks barge in to places like the SB like this is the homework help line.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

I liked this country better before all this political correctness came along. We've become a country of wusses.

I'm not a respecter of persons. I say things as I see them. I do not purpously try to offend people, but at the same time I say things as they are, and if people are offended, so be it.

There is a fine line between offensive and forthright. People get their undies in a bunch when I'm blunt, but I don't like all this mamby-pamby beating around the bush b.s.

Just say it like it is. I expect no less from others.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: himaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I liked this country better before all this political correctness came along. We've become a country of wusses.

I'm not a respecter of persons. I say things as I see them. I do not purpously try to offend people, but at the same time I say things as they are, and if people are offended, so be it.

There is a fine line between offensive and forthright. People get their undies in a bunch when I'm blunt, but I don't like all this mamby-pamby beating around the bush b.s.

Just say it like it is. I expect no less from others.</div></div>

I couldn't agree more but at the same time, we don't want to run off potentially good members by being a douche bag.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

Sean,

hahah...Sorry I am laughing because as soon as I saw the thread title I knew exactly what you were going to get response wise. Listen, there is a ton of information on this site as well as people willing to help. As with any site you will find really educated people mixed with people who use sites like this to vent becuase they had a shitty day or what not...or just people who need to know it all but don't.

stick around awhile read through the threads that interest you and use the search engine to look up things you want to learn about, you will start to realize who knows what they are talking about and are willing to help, who belongs to their shooting cliques and can't be bothered, and those who just say off the wall things to start trouble. But after awhile you just laugh and move on.

But bottom line is 90% of the people I have met through this forum are stand out individuals! and I have also met some guys that I now shoot with or talk to that will remain long term friends. And I have learned alot over the last year and mainly by studying and experimenting but used information found here as a guideline.

Just stop worrying about the pitty stuff like this and go have fun and learn new things! Its a great site enjoy it!

Don't sweat the small stuff!


 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean Hagerty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets help them out instead of giving them a rough way to go.</div></div>

I think you're missing point of the two different levels of "NEW"

New guys that post a real question that warrants a genuine response usually get a light razzing and are directed to the Search engine. I see NO problem with that what so ever. If they want to pout about it...they probably need to grow up.

The second group is the people that show up asking what kind of gun and gear they need to shoot long range steel out to 400 yds. Want to know how to counter snipe a counter sniper. Want to know if their BSA is up to spec with a buddies USO.

What constitutes a noob? 10 posts? 100 posts? 1000 posts? Member for a year? Member for a month?

I don't condone the ruthless slaughter that some guys get, but a little hazing never killed anyone (not online anyway) and it's probably the ONLY way to keep mass repeated posts from happening.

There is a reason cracker jack places like Predator Masters have 36,000 members with 208,000 topics vs Snipers Hide that has 56,000 members and only 138,000 topics with 1.7 million posts. They post the SAME TOPIC OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Here, people search for the answer and stick to the topic that's already posted...usually.

Sometimes I wish The Duke was around voice his opinion.

<iframe width="640" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/K8pJBCCrZl8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

I believe that the quality of info here is much better than at other sites. SH is a WEALTH of info and how-to. I feel that SH members actually do a little more shooting, and engage in a little less internet yak-yak. There aren't too many Fudd's here, but a few really skilled LR shooters.

SH is my favorite shooting related site, period.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

Why is this posted in the Semi Auto forum!!! You must be a newbie. You should've put this in the general discussion room......

Just kidding. I agree, Some people are quick to bash a newbie, but they need to realize that not everyone here is a former mil or sniper, but are interested in shooting. We all have something to learn here.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

I could care less about scaring someone away. It's not that hard to use the "real" search function and it works wonders. If hazing prevent the same topic from being asked thirty times over again I'm all for it. People getting all feelly is what ruins this site.....not the expierenced members hazing people. Again, it's this BS liberal way of thinking(and we're all guilty of it to some extent) that got us here. There are those that have the answers here, and when a newbie wants answers, they should pay the price(whatever the expierenced members deem appropriate) for the answer. Its a simple story of I have what you want, care to pay my asking price.

Truthfully I think that the welcome email that you recieve when you register should contain the "real" search engine and a suggestion that new members are expected to read and research a little before starting a thread. That would probably stop a lot of the repeat threads and hopefully moronic ones about 80x scopes for $300...."Are they any good?"

I just think that this site is a great resource as it has a lot of members that are very knowledgable and have been there and done that. I'm a average shooter from PGH so if they wany to give me a hard time in the process of helping me learn, thats fine with me. It's akin to going into a college lecture and telling the prof that he's teaching too fast......just get over it.

I know the old addage that if you don't have anything nice to say then keep your mouth shut, but when you can page through the threads and know without a doubt which one's are started by newb's simply by the title......it's time to let people know that there is a search function and a little research PRIOR to posting a new topic is in order. Just my two cents...I've already been called an asshole by a newb lately so maybe I'm a little partial. Trust me, three years from now you'll wish that the newbs at that time would stop asking about the counter snipers just like I am today.
smile.gif
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

Anyone who doesn't like it is free to leave. No one is keeping you here.

As for being "BS liberal way of thinking", you couldn't be farther from the truth. It has to do with this site being not just a forum but place for people to be comfortable to talk and exchange ideas. If someone walked into your home and you started calling them an idiot and then had a bunch of your friends come over and start posting stupid pictures of them do you think that you would get anyone visiting?

I love how these old salts of Snipers Hide with their 2010, 2009 and 2008 join dates know what's best. If you were around here two or three times that long you would see the difference of today and how this site used to be. It will go back to the way it was whether it be done the easy way or the hard way.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

In certain respects harsh responses are warrented.
If someone is in search of knowledge and shows a general interest should we not be ablidged to correct them.
The method in wich you guide them to answer said questions speaks of your character.
I dont give a crap if you are Military, Leo or civilian there is no reason to be a douchebag.
If your career has provided you with an expertise in the mentioned fields then you should conduct yourself as a professional.

I'm not saying everything should be taken so seriously and you cant have fun but imho even the crudeness of somethings posted on here have become out of order.

Just my $.02
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

The quality of the posters, the manner in which the questions are asked definitely sway the response.

People seem to think we are being harsh, but a lot of new people are quick to post political commentary which we have to chase down, I mean, I banned a guy last week and he completely attacked me via email with the caveat, "so I missed two small rules" and torn me up. Do I care, no but the fact is, he didn't break 1, he admittedly broke two of the rules and was mad I banned him.

Most people tend to take being banned emotionally, usually I don't even remember your Screen name 5 minutes after banning someone and my bans are generally 3 to 10 days... Still they come back pissed, and then start to cause a problem in every thread waiting for you to do it again. Same thing with this last week, the fact I warned the poster once a month ago, he automatically believes I don't like him so anything said is done with that in mind. Most people only see 1/4 of the story, we tend to see a bigger picture.

We get it and we don't like taking our time out to enforce the rules, it's the worst part of what we do... but when we see patterns and react off them to head off the problem, people get mad. Trust me everyone thinks they are unique and their story is different enough to warrant special consideration.

Do we have bad days and good days, sure, but we also have to look at a lot of things we don't want to every day. This is why some sites have 100s of moderators, to keep it from weighing down the staff. And believe me, being a mod is a thankless job.

All this said, the site rules are being modified simply to account for the people who don't quite understand them so we have to spell them out in greater detail. Also I am looking into the welcome email part, and I may try to put something up for new members. But it's up to 'older" or slightly older members to work to help too. Not quoting spam, having to chase quotes is a pain, not baiting and pushing, and letting issues die. This community is only as good as it's members, while the staff helps move things along, we do not set the pace, you all do. And I hate to remind people this is not a Free Speech Zone, it's a privately owned business, we don't allow you to say just anything you like, and you have no rights to such. Sure you can say it, but there is no guarantee we'll keep you or what you said around.

After 10 years. this happens with every growth spurt, the FB promotion brought a new crop of people who think in s slightly different way. So that is to be expected and must be understood ahead of time. Once you figure that out, the rest is easy.

Ebbs and Flows...
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

At the risk of sounding like a suck-ass, great post Lowlight. I have been banned for 'attacking other members' and although it pissed me off at first, I laugh about it now. This new rule is something that needed to happen and you guys do a great job keeping everything running smoothly.

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say, thanks a TON for all you and the guys do and the knowledge you've imparted.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone who doesn't like it is free to leave. No one is keeping you here.

As for being "BS liberal way of thinking", you couldn't be farther from the truth. It has to do with this site being not just a forum but place for people to be comfortable to talk and exchange ideas. If someone walked into your home and you started calling them an idiot and then had a bunch of your friends come over and start posting stupid pictures of them do you think that you would get anyone visiting?

I love how these old salts of Snipers Hide with their 2010, 2009 and 2008 join dates know what's best. If you were around here two or three times that long you would see the difference of today and how this site used to be. It will go back to the way it was whether it be done the easy way or the hard way. </div></div>

Rob01, I feel that my above comment is in need of a little explaination. I understand as a mod your post about setting some boundaries reagarding attacks was needed in order to keep the peace around here as well as keep the forum productive.

I was refering to the idea that a lot of new memebers have that the information available here is some sort or a right, rather than a resource or privilege. And when said new members are given some very general advice as well as shown the proper search techniques a attitude ensues. That is generally when most threads veer from productive conversation and head the way of name calling. I'm guilty of it myself lately and I realize that from now on a repetitive or ridiculous thread will not be where I post.

My post above was really an attemp to convince newer members that a little research goes a long way and you'll not only learn what you sought out to, you might even pick up some collateral knowledge as well. I hope that I explained myself somewhat, I was in no way, shape, or form, trying to throw an underhanded comment the mods way.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The quality of the posters, the manner in which the questions are asked definitely sway the response. </div></div>
Yes,...yes it does.
Asking a FNG question is not the issue, it's the guy that starts off B/S'ing how X=Y, or a band camp story, that will summon the wolves.
Then again hollering for the teach or hall monitor to save your ass your first month at school, might be a sign of things to come, or a snap shot of your past, as well.
Funny your don't see the know it all's, adding to or in most cases in certain forum blocks at all. That in an of it's self speaks more truth than a baiting, question to me.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

Seems like this discussion happens every few years...we were due, I suppose.

Some people need a good ass chewing, some are just ignorant and need pointed in the right direction.

The problem is, some newer members think that it is a right of passage to jump on a new guy, whether or not he deserves it.

Trust me, there have been a handful of trolls that need a vurtu-slapping, but, only a handful. By attacking everyone, we have essentially lost the a.bility to self regulate...comes with numbers.

Oh, and for the record, I consider myself a newer member still, and I followed the site for a couple years before I joined...got a feel for how to act that way.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I love how these old salts of Snipers Hide with their 2010, 2009 and 2008 join dates know what's best. If you were around here two or three times that long you would see the difference of today and how this site used to be. It will go back to the way it was whether it be done the easy way or the hard way. </div></div>

You hit the nail on the head Rob. What caught my attention and caused me to join and stay around was the fact that the site was full of prior and current military and LEO's. Being a prior LEO myself, I really liked what I had found. The shooters here knew what they spoke of from real world experience and not from what they read on the net or what their buddy had just told them.

Snipers Hide is still a great place to learn and share ideas but, it does have it's share of loud mouth know it alls that really know notta. I've had to bight my tongue here of late with several members and am finding that the ignore button works better.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

Here's the newbie in me......Can someone please inform me as to how to ignore a user for future reference.

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeo556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's the newbie in me......Can someone please inform me as to how to ignore a user for future reference.

Thanks in advance for your help.</div></div>

Click their name and select ignore user.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

Click on their name--go to, view profile--click on ignore user.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeo556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting, I don't have that feature available to me.....</div></div>

click their name, view profile, ignore user.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

it's cool. I was at a members house about a year ago (he has been a member since 05.) I had to show him that there was an active topics drop down so he could see the most recent topics being discussed.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeo556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys....Now I feel like a moron!
smile.gif
</div></div>

Aw, piss! Now I can't pile on you for asking a stupid question with an answer easily found.

It's like that stupid Karate Kid movie (which I still like though I'm a rank novice)--balance.

And the appropriate or needed mild thrashing or ribbing or whatever is easy enough to self-moderate. I've sort of defended a few people here and there to make sure they really were welcome, by me at least.

I'm banned now for a year on another board (non-gun, members only type access) for being "disrespectful", and never "re-applied" for posting privileges because I did not and still do not want to give the authoritarian boobs there the satisfaction of reading my letter of application with apology and statement of how I intend to make sure "it won't happen again." Trust me, the thin skins I found there make Frank's rules and tolerance of some...fun kidding around here...look like an idylic paradise. His standard of automatic forgiveness after a time of penance-banning is evidence of the difference and his reasonableness.

So yeah, continue to ban us when appropriate, keep up the measured and reasonable responses, lock down dead-end and fractious non-productive threads, keep the peace and let us have a bit of fun with each other.

Our mods are keeping it from deteriorating into the cesspool that alt.religion.mormon (moderated) turned into about 10-15 years ago when I wandered off. Thoughtful and informed info, even when wrong on this forum, is quite consistently backed up at least with decent logic and thinking, even if some premise is wrong and leads to an incorrect conclusion. There is no better firearms-related site in my opinion.

A few needed the choke-clain pulled. Good. Now let's get back to the business at hand. We sure can razz without being savage.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

I've been visiting SH for six months now (only 18 posts so I either aint in no hurry to sell my stuff, or I don't know much).
This is one of the best shooting information resources on the net, but like all things net it attracts plenty who don't stray too far from their keyboard.

I don't need to use the ignore button, because I've done enough reading here (I'm not an inexperienced rifleman) that I know who's worth reading now anyway.

If you think it's a dumbass question or whatever, just ignore it and go do something else. Flaming the newbie or whatever you want to call it does not increase your importance.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

I was active in rec.guns in usenet groups before the www had gun lists.

Then I started joining very gun group, maybe ~100 of them.

I have been banned from ~10 of them.

Per my weak old 60 year old memory, I got banned for stuff like:

posting hot handloads
posting hot handloads
posting hot handloads
suggesting removing the decapping stem
calculating the US soldier in Iraq fatality rate and comparing it to US citizen mortality rate
making fun of Ayoob's books.
Suggesting that HK pistols were more for status than function.
Sporterizing surplus rifles
Posting hot handloads
Posting hot handloads

That is more than 10, and I am sure I forgot some.

It really reminds me of getting kicking out of high school for criticizing a teacher's lecture.

I was in trouble every day in high school.
The only trouble I had in college was when a librarian said to me, "SHHH!"

Snipers Hide is allot like college, there are no moderators looking for trouble.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

Aw, don't point us to the RULES!!!!

Now I can't credibly say it's okay to attack old members.

Clark--I've just loved following your stuff. Keep it up. I think some of your finest moments might have been on thefiringline.com. or the high road.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. No I love how these old salts of Snipers Hide with their 2010, 2009 and 2008 join dates know what's best. If you were around here two or three times that long you would see the difference of today and how this site used to be. It will go back to the way it was whether it be done the easy way or the hard way. </div></div>

What if Dave Tubb or Grant Singley joined today? Would they be newbies? Who gives a crap what your join date is or how many posts you have. That means nothing.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: himaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. No I love how these old salts of Snipers Hide with their 2010, 2009 and 2008 join dates know what's best. If you were around here two or three times that long you would see the difference of today and how this site used to be. It will go back to the way it was whether it be done the easy way or the hard way. </div></div>

What if Dave Tubb or Grant Singley joined today? Would they be newbies? Who gives a crap what your join date is or how many posts you have. That means nothing. </div></div>

That's not what he said at all. He was referring to how the site used to be in regards to the behavior of members to eachother and newcomers.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: himaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. No I love how these old salts of Snipers Hide with their 2010, 2009 and 2008 join dates know what's best. If you were around here two or three times that long you would see the difference of today and how this site used to be. It will go back to the way it was whether it be done the easy way or the hard way. </div></div>

What if Dave Tubb or Grant Singley joined today? Would they be newbies? Who gives a crap what your join date is or how many posts you have. That means nothing. </div></div>

All you did was read what he said, you obviously didnt understand it. That's not what he was saying at all. Hes talking about people who have been here for less than 1/3 of the forums existence talking about "how it used to be" like they know best, when they were not even here for the "used to" part.

It was pretty cut and dry, I don't see how you took it as an attack on members with newer join dates having less valuable contributions.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: himaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What if Dave Tubb or Grant Singley joined today? Would they be newbies? Who gives a crap what your join date is or how many posts you have. That means nothing. </div></div>

You talkin about this David Tubb... Linky...
grin.gif
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elkhuntinguide</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: himaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What if Dave Tubb or Grant Singley joined today? Would they be newbies? Who gives a crap what your join date is or how many posts you have. That means nothing. </div></div>

You talkin about this David Tubb... Linky...
grin.gif
</div></div>

He calls me daily for advice, I never should have given him my number.....


LMAO, ok, not really.....but a guy can dream.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

I called you four times today for advice and you just kept pressing "Ignore"... :sigh:

I hope you don't do the same when David calls...
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

David called me once, might even have been twice, I think he wanted to yell at me for something I said, but that doesn't surprise anyone.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

I dont' think that Pimp edit went over well...

I asked Magan if I could hide up her Mini Skirt but she felt Flounder was more my speed. Plus in her boots I couldn't reach anyways.
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

Don't forget the redhead wig with your finger in the corner of your mouth...

Those 6" heels would put you at about 5' 4"...

"HOTNESS" for days...
 
Re: It says a lot about a forum...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> believe me, being a mod is a thankless job. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 17pt"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">THANKS MODS</span></span></span>
 
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